WHS - current GM article

Swango1980

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Yes that's correct. (It was actually 40 because we do some mixed tee comps and those off the whites get an additional 2 shots for Comp purposes to cover the difference in CR between White and Yellow tees.)
CR is 0.6 higher than par
*Shrugs*

For more context, 12 of the Top 24 were single figure Course Handicap golfers and another seven are either 10 or 11. Low guys are always right at the top end. Last month equivalent Comp won by a guy off 7.
I wouldn't be surprised if low handicappers were often at the upper end. They are more consistent and likely to shoot scores up and around their handicap. Many of the poorer golfers can often implode. But when you take the overall best score, it'll often be a higher handicapper that gets there, simply because they have more shots on their handicap and on their absolute best day can get a very high score. Especially when you have new and improving golfers.
 

Backsticks

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"If the player is correctly handicapped, there should be no advantage to holding a high or low handicap index: the course handicap and playing handicap calculations should provide equity for all competitors."
But do they yet advocate categories I think you said ? Which would seem somewhat of a conflict ?
 

wjemather

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But do they yet advocate categories I think you said ? Which would seem somewhat of a conflict ?
"Divisions for allocation of prizes are recommended, giving all players the opportunity to compete against their peers."

Seems fairly obvious that competitions involving only players of similar demonstrated ability should be even more equitable, as their potential scoring ranges should be more similar.
 

Backsticks

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"Divisions for allocation of prizes are recommended, giving all players the opportunity to compete against their peers."

Seems fairly obvious that competitions involving only players of similar demonstrated ability should be even more equitable, as their potential scoring ranges should be more similar.
Not if they are standing by the statement 'there should be no advantage to holding a high or low handicap'.

Either HIs are equitable, or they are not.
 

wjemather

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Not if they are standing by the statement 'there should be no advantage to holding a high or low handicap'.

Either HIs are equitable, or they are not.
Probabilities of winning or finishing in the top-x places, average finishing position, potential best score, average score, average best score, expected score, potential worst score, etc.

All of these can be assessed for equity. When the system is described as equitable, it is on the basis of the metrics that matter most. That doesn't prevent further equity from being achieved in other/all metrics by narrowing the handicap bracket.
 
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nickjdavis

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So...for the 2023 data I posted earlier, rather than combine handicaps into groups, I looked at each specific handicap and worked out the average finishing position of players with that handicap assuming a "normalised" field size of 100 golfers. In a perfectly equitable world, every handicap's average finishing position should be 50th.

As can be seen, at first glance it would appear that the low guys do better in comparison to the high guys.

Qualifying that a little it however....the number of data points from golfers with handicaps less than 6 and greater than 29 is a little bit lacking, so, if we ignored the top and the bottom ends of the graph then we do see a reasonably flat trend suggesting a pretty decent level of equity....albeit there is still a small bias towards the lower handicapper.

I'd expect the bias to be even greater towards the low guys in a medal competition, where a bad score from a higher handicapper has a proportionally higher impact than it would in a stableford competition.


1700503884112.png
 

rulefan

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CONGU Research
The analysis covers 750 club handicap competitions reported in the Herald in the months May to September. The competitions selected had a minimum field size of 75 competitors.

All competitions were evaluated as ‘open’ i.e. there was one overall winner of the competition irrespective of handicap.
The winners of the 750 competitions were grouped into the four handicap categories. The distribution of winners by handicap category is shown below:
If the above findings are related to a typical club entry (average over a number of clubs in a range of competitions) a different picture emerges:

When the distribution of winners by handicap category is related to their representation in the field, it can be seen that all handicap categories win in reasonable proportion to their entry i.e. Category 1 and Category 3 players typically comprise 8% and 40% of a club competition and in a ‘single class’ competition win 10% and 38% of the time.

 This would suggest that handicapping is acceptably fair and equitable throughout the handicap range.

1700505676895.png
 

nickjdavis

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The only thing I'd say for balance @rulefan is that is a very old analysis that predates the WHS by many years....would be interesting to see a similar analysis post-WHS...after all...that is what everyone is moaning about...that the WHS has made it harder for certain groups to win.
 

Voyager EMH

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I wouldn't be surprised if low handicappers were often at the upper end. They are more consistent and likely to shoot scores up and around their handicap. Many of the poorer golfers can often implode. But when you take the overall best score, it'll often be a higher handicapper that gets there, simply because they have more shots on their handicap and on their absolute best day can get a very high score. Especially when you have new and improving golfers.
My HI is fairly consistent, but my scores are bonkers. I don't feel that I'm consistent at all. :LOL::LOL::LOL:

50 scores 2022-23.jpg
Exactly 10 out of 50 scores below HI. The magic 20%.
The one low outlier was my lowest gross score for over 3 years. The only one in 50 scores that is over two shots below handicap.
But then I'm not new and improving, but old and hanging on. :LOL::LOL::LOL:
 

Backsticks

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CONGU Research
The analysis covers 750 club handicap competitions reported in the Herald in the months May to September. The competitions selected had a minimum field size of 75 competitors.

All competitions were evaluated as ‘open’ i.e. there was one overall winner of the competition irrespective of handicap.
The winners of the 750 competitions were grouped into the four handicap categories. The distribution of winners by handicap category is shown below:
If the above findings are related to a typical club entry (average over a number of clubs in a range of competitions) a different picture emerges:

When the distribution of winners by handicap category is related to their representation in the field, it can be seen that all handicap categories win in reasonable proportion to their entry i.e. Category 1 and Category 3 players typically comprise 8% and 40% of a club competition and in a ‘single class’ competition win 10% and 38% of the time.

 This would suggest that handicapping is acceptably fair and equitable throughout the handicap range.

View attachment 50551
Is that not the 1998 or so survey ? Low HIs needed re-education are concerned about WHS as the cause of their perceived uncompetitiveness against the cheating high HCs.
 

Backache

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Without any legend that's just a pretty picture of red and green blocks.

Regardless, since the SGU hasn't existed for several years (and since before WHS) I'm going to suggest the data isn't relevant anyway?
If the data predated WHS as is suggested, I would rather suggest that in Scotland the system did not need changing.
 

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If the data predated WHS as is suggested, I would rather suggest that in Scotland the system did not need changing.
It did. That was when the bias in favour of low HCs was happening. They were winning more than high HCs. Its possible most of them didnt know that, but became used to a certain frequency or chance of winning. Now that balance has been restored they feel victimised. Rather than equals.
Thats why I feel our union's failure is one of lack of communication given that they knew this was going to happen. In gentler words, it needed a bit of - you had it too good for too long, time to get used to your chances of winning being the same as everyone else.
 

Backache

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It did. That was when the bias in favour of low HCs was happening. They were winning more than high HCs. Its possible most of them didnt know that, but became used to a certain frequency or chance of winning. Now that balance has been restored they feel victimised. Rather than equals.
Thats why I feel our union's failure is one of lack of communication given that they knew this was going to happen. In gentler words, it needed a bit of - you had it too good for too long, time to get used to your chances of winning being the same as everyone else.
Without figures on the chart one cannot be certain but it looks like there was no problrm at all in Scotland , any difference being tiny and of highly dubious significance.
 

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Without figures on the chart one cannot be certain but it looks like there was no problrm at all in Scotland , any difference being tiny and of highly dubious significance.
No, the conclusions from that survey are clear, and, as expected given that it was known the UHS was biased towards low HCs. The lower you were, the greater your unfair advantage over high HCs of winning. The red column is the number of winners. The green, the number of entrants. The categories are the old handicap based ones. Perfect fairness would have the columns in each category level. But as indicated, Cat 1 players won more than their representation ideally would have, Cat 4 winning less proportionately to their numbers. As I say, this was a known profile favour the low, and similar to the picture presented in the earlier quotation here where the lines are shown converging, and removing the over-winning of low hcs.
 

Backache

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No, the conclusions from that survey are clear, and, as expected given that it was known the UHS was biased towards low HCs. The lower you were, the greater your unfair advantage over high HCs of winning. The red column is the number of winners. The green, the number of entrants. The categories are the old handicap based ones. Perfect fairness would have the columns in each category level. But as indicated, Cat 1 players won more than their representation ideally would have, Cat 4 winning less proportionately to their numbers. As I say, this was a known profile favour the low, and similar to the picture presented in the earlier quotation here where the lines are shown converging, and removing the over-winning of low hcs.
In any natural system you cannot achieve perfectly equal figures those look a very decent approximation.
 

Backsticks

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In any natural system you cannot achieve perfectly equal figures those look a very decent approximation.
Yes, the bias to the low HIs was gentle, and didnt make they higher ranger completely uncompetitive. But even that has now been flattened with WHS which has left no effective difference in the chances of high or low handicappers.
 

wjemather

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Yes, the bias to the low HIs was gentle, and didnt make they higher ranger completely uncompetitive. But even that has now been flattened with WHS which has left no effective difference in the chances of high or low handicappers.
The old SGU "analysis" is incredibly simplistic, only looking at a single metric (as I indicated earlier, winning in larger fields is not the only thing that needs to be assessed when evaluating equity). However, the slight advantage it shows for the low handicapper of winning in fields of 75 or more translates to a much larger advantage in smaller fields and matchplay.
 
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