Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off

[Fish]

Cheers, never knew about that facility :thup:

11th, out of the top 10

 

[Imurg]

I'm surprised I only have 21.......

sorry! 22...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Rule? What rule? I was under the impression that Etiquette was defined as a guideline, not a rule? If it was a Rule, then we'd all still be following it or getting punished for not doing so. To my knowledge, No one has ever been punished for not following the HNSP (?)

Oh please - I deliberately made the point in the above that I wasn't talking about standing at DfTs HNSP - as reference to that in any discussion on rules (or guidelines or whatever you want to call them that you are happy with) of etiquette with HNSP mentioned won't go anywhere as the HNSP is not recognised by most here as having anything to do with etiquette.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm currently in 7th place with 44 posts against SLH who has over 100. I really must get out more.
(and no i didn't add them up- you get this info if you click on "replies" in main Lounge page)

just of 100 out of about 1200 in total - well I had to do something to stand my ground when assailed on just about all sides.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Anyway - in my mind the issue has actually evolved to one about etiquette - and the circumstances under which aspects of etiquette are or can be dropped - if ever. Who decides and how do we find out or get told about it. For instance if some reason players decided it was OK to stand looking down the line of a FCs tee shot as they weren't bothered - and passed this on to newbies - it's only etiquette after all - no penalty - and so the newbie adopts the same practice and then plays with golfers who still recognise that etiquette - arguments and embarrassment - what a mess.

 

[stevie_r]

Good grief, it's like constantly trying to explain the same point to a 6 year old who is being difficult. When you are finally forced, even though you don't want to, to just say

Because!

 

[Allanxyz]

There have never been any Rules Of Etiquette, only advice.

The wording of the poll could only lead to one answer [as the poster well knew].

If it was worded that 'I choose to follow tradition and the advice and practices of the R&A and The European Tour.'
How many would have voted for that.

The only quote I've seen from the R&A states something along the lines of not standing on the line of the shot or behind the hole.... So if people did chose your option above it would not back up SILH's original argument.

I appreciate opinions have softened, including my own...
@SILH - On the question of etiquette, the main issue for me is not whether etiquette can change and evolve (which I believe it can), but whether this was actually etiquette in the first place... I think that is still up for debate, although I respect your opinion as to why you think it is. You also state we should follow the R&A, which doesn't state anything as strict as yourself...

I'm also not convinced about all these imaginary people who get upset about standing infront or behind (the back) of the player... Where's the proof, other than the etiquette that you suggest and many don't believe in?

 

[Allanxyz]

Ps... Just trying to bump my number of replies...

also golf is ruined for me now, playing and watching... I'll be screaming at the tv, yelling that they should pan out a little just so I can see how everyone is standing on the tee box and hoping Phil is in contention so I can keep a close eye out for players shuffling across when the left hander takes his turn...

 

[john0]

This is my 49th post of the thread and I think at least 46 of them have been constructive

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Good grief, it's like constantly trying to explain the same point to a 6 year old who is being difficult. When you are finally forced, even though you don't want to, to just say

Because!

Because WHAT? Tell me how etiquette changes in the way you seem to suggest without things getting a mess. Thing is that basically etiquette doesn't really change. And I am not talking here at all or any any way shape or form about teeing off. I'm taking about etiquette in general. Anyway we - seem to both be missing each other's points.

 

[Slime]

Anyway - in my mind the issue has actually evolved to one about etiquette - and the circumstances under which aspects of etiquette are or can be dropped - if ever. Who decides and how do we find out or get told about it. For instance if some reason players decided it was OK to stand looking down the line of a FCs tee shot as they weren't bothered - and passed this on to newbies - it's only etiquette after all - no penalty - and so the newbie adopts the same practice and then plays with golfers who still recognise that etiquette - arguments and embarrassment - what a mess.

No one person decides on etiquette!
A game is invented, people play it and rules are drawn up. Meanwhile, as the game developes, certain behavioural aspects evolve borne out of common sense and good manners ........................... this is what we call etiquette. These are effectively a collection of unwritten rules if you like, not rules of the game per se, but universally accepted conventions to which we all (?) try to adhere.
If one of these conventions is transgressed the guilty party is merely educated as to what should have happened and in no way is he punished for breaking a rule - because he hadn't done that.


Slime.

P.S. That sounded so much clearer in my head!

 

[stevie_r]

Because WHAT? Tell me how etiquette changes in the way you seem to suggest without things getting a mess. Thing is that basically etiquette doesn't really change. And I am not talking here at all or any any way shape or form about teeing off. I'm taking about etiquette in general. Anyway we - seem to both be missing each other's points.

Final time because I really do think you are just at the wind up now. It is no longer required by etiquette to stand where you suggested (if indeed it ever was) as a result of this massive change, has the game of golf descended into complete anarchy?

Now the reason for this is that over time (with me so far?) people change the way they feel (still with me?) about how things should happen, what seemed necessary or important no longer is (managing to keep up ok?) and new ways of doing things evolve (that means change).

Now if other elements of golf etiquette evolve (that means change remember) over time then there won't be a huge reaction it will be because over 20/ 30/ 40 years people will slowly gravitate to another way of doing things - in golf and in society in general.

Let's go back to your original example.

'You know mate, I never really feel comfortable standing here when you tee off, mind if I stand over there?'
'But I won't know what you are doing, you might fiddle with stuff in your pockets'
'Promise I won't'
'OK then'

and in such fashion is pointless crap slowly eradicated from our lives.

 

[vkurup]

Been away for 2 days, and already added 200+ posts to this thread... This thread keeps on giving..


BTW, what is an FC?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

BTW, what is an FC?

I think it's the same as a PP

 

[vkurup]

I think it's the same as a PP

I go the PP bit.. but could not figure out who or what an FC is..
(would that be the fielding coach .. now that we are mixing cricket & golf)

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I go the PP bit.. but could not figure out who or what an FC is..
(would that be the fielding coach .. now that we are mixing cricket & golf)

I understood it to be Fellow Competitor, if it isn't I may have been offending an awful lot of people

 

[john0]

I understood it to be Fellow Competitor, if it isn't I may have been offending an awful lot of people

Did you know that is bad etiquette to offend people if you don't do it from the correct position

 

[CMAC]

I understood it to be Fellow Competitor, if it isn't I may have been offending an awful lot of people

lol,:rofl: I think your definition of FC should be the norm now.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Final time because I really do think you are just at the wind up now.

Sorry - not my intention at all.

It is no longer required by etiquette to stand where you suggested (if indeed it ever was) as a result of this massive change, has the game of golf descended into complete anarchy?

I agree in part but it is simply your (and I admit many others) assertion that it is no longer required - clearly nobody had told me or DfT - and that is actually the general point I am making

Now the reason for this is that over time (with me so far?) people change the way they feel (still with me?) about how things should happen, what seemed necessary or important no longer is (managing to keep up ok?) and new ways of doing things evolve (that means change).

I agree in part - for instance it is no longer deemed necessary and good etiquette to wear a red jacket on the golf course to warn the public that there are golfers about - because most golf is not played on common land etc.

But just because golfers attitudes towards something change in one place that can't just mean that the change applies everywhere. Very different when we are talking about equipment as these changes and their impact on etiquette will be realised everywhere golf is played. But personal attitudes and preferences are just these - even if they are shared in a group or locally. That doesn't make them globally known about never mind accepted. And please note that the things I am specifically talking about are things around aspects of the game that have not changed (like teeing off). Because the context of the etiquette has not changed many may not agree with you about any need to change the etiquette - despite what one (possibly very large) constituency of golfers might think.

Now if other elements of golf etiquette evolve (that means change remember) over time then there won't be a huge reaction it will be because over 20/ 30/ 40 years people will slowly gravitate to another way of doing things - in golf and in society in general.

I agree - but this change needs to be agreed across and throughout the game and communicated - otherwise you risk confusion and upset.

Let's go back to your original example.

'You know mate, I never really feel comfortable standing here when you tee off, mind if I stand over there?'
'But I won't know what you are doing, you might fiddle with stuff in your pockets'
'Promise I won't'
'OK then'

and in such fashion is pointless crap slowly eradicated from our lives.

All I can say on this is the DfTs HNSP came about for good reasons - and the reasons for it haven't really changed as far as I can see. So I disagree that it's pointless crap - it costs almost nothing in time and effort to do - if you can be bothered.

So we disagree.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

@SILH - On the question of etiquette, the main issue for me is not whether etiquette can change and evolve (which I believe it can), but whether this was actually etiquette in the first place... I think that is still up for debate, although I respect your opinion as to why you think it is. You also state we should follow the R&A, which doesn't state anything as strict as yourself...

I agree - though I caveat that with the fact that there never really was anything strictly prescriptive about where folk should stand - in that you must stand there. It was just always recognised to be the most appropriate place to stand being the most likely spot to avoid the possibility of distracting the player (and help the player spot his wayward shots)