Where is it going to come from.

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the way the car industry is going we will all be driving electric by about 2030.
so i have a question which i havent seen raised by anyone in authority,with all electric cars we wont need fossil fuels ,petrol, diesel
and probably LPG.
so where is the government going to raise all the lost revenue from the tax currently levied on fossil fuls ,also electric = no road fund licence ,again the loss of revenue is going to hurt like hell.
the only thing that i can think is that the price of electricity is going to go through the roof as it will be an easy target once again for any government to screw us over.
thoughts please ,as im buggered if i know what is going to be done about an awful lot of money dissapearing from government coffers.
 
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Good question, in years to come the whole car ownership model will change anyway, with self driving cars getting ever closer to reality and actual car ownership declining. My next car will defo be electric. The main barrier is still access to charging points. Not easy for terraced houses .
 

Lord Tyrion

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I'll be amazed if we are all driving electric by 2030 as neither the cars nor the infrastructure are in place. The govt are currently moving us towards an ideal with no basis for it yet.

Assuming the mfrs suddenly take huge leaps forward and they solve mass charging of cars..............

They will need to increase road tax, start charging per mile road usage. Presumably with these new electric cars they can have GPS in which can report back how many miles the car is travelling. A bill will then be sent weekly or monthly for that. The tech may or may not be there for that yet but then neither is there yet for mass production and charging of electric cars so why worry? If the govt say it will happen it must be possible :unsure:
 
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GPS trackers are easy to fit to cars. It's what happens with the data that's a worry. Although we all pretty much carry one around any way already .
My daughters first car had a back box that reported back to her insurance co how , where and when she was driving
 
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One of my former clients manufactures refueling points for hydrogen powered vehicles. They reckon anyone who does long journeys regularly will go hydrogen, rather than electric. The hydrogen is used to power a fuel cell so I wonder if the answer will be a hybrid hydrogen / rechargeable electric vehicle.

What I don't understand is how the hydrogen is produced. Does it require electricity and, if so, how are we going to generate the huge amount required to power all the hydrogen and, for that matter, electric vehicles on the road?
 

SocketRocket

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The whole case for the way electric cars will reduce the use of carbon fuels and gas is a misnomer. All you are doing is burning the same fuels in power stations and storing the energy in a battery. Without a massive increase in electricity generation we would not be able to cope with the additional demand of these extra electric cars and there would be no real saving in greenhouse gas emissions.

Driving electric engines by hydrogen seems a better solution although the technology to gather enough hydrogen does not seem to be here yet even though hydrogen is one of natures most abundant elements.
 

Swinglowandslow

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I'll be amazed if we are all driving electric by 2030 as neither the cars nor the infrastructure are in place. The govt are currently moving us towards an ideal with no basis for it yet.

Assuming the mfrs suddenly take huge leaps forward and they solve mass charging of cars..............

They will need to increase road tax, start charging per mile road usage. Presumably with these new electric cars they can have GPS in which can report back how many miles the car is travelling. A bill will then be sent weekly or monthly for that. The tech may or may not be there for that yet but then neither is there yet for mass production and charging of electric cars so why worry? If the govt say it will happen it must be possible :unsure:
Yes, I broadly agree. The road tax will become a per mile reality. The technology will be built into the car. The satellites will register the car's use and you will be billed accordingly. Also, if non driver cars are in use at that time, then of course they will never drive over the speed limit, and so if you do so, it again will be registered by the satellites, and you will be fined accordingly.
So when will electric cars become the norm.?
Not until either the batteries can be charged in not more than 30 minutes ( at public charge points) or the batteries are small enough to be taken from the car and charged ( overnight?) in the house or flat. The batteries range would also have to be 200 miles at least.
I know that is a big ask, but it will come. What's more ,the push by governments and car manufacturers for electric ( as opposed to liquid hydrogen -which could use existing petrol stations after conversion, (a seemingly easier logistical option), leads me to think that Governments etc are aware of the electric solutions being nearer than is supposed.
Twill be interesting!
 

Lord Tyrion

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My biggest wonder about electric cars is whether they'll be able to produce the extra electricity to charge and power 40 million cars...how many power stations will they need to build..?
Add to that the problem of charging points.
Add to that the amount of minerals / rare metals required for the batteries

I'm with MiB. Hydrogen is surely a better option, it solves the range and refuelling issues that electric cars suffer from.
 

Swinglowandslow

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The whole case for the way electric cars will reduce the use of carbon fuels and gas is a misnomer. All you are doing is burning the same fuels in power stations and storing the energy in a battery. Without a massive increase in electricity generation we would not be able to cope with the additional demand of these extra electric cars and there would be no real saving in greenhouse gas emissions.

Driving electric engines by hydrogen seems a better solution although the technology to gather enough hydrogen does not seem to be here yet even though hydrogen is one of natures most abundant elements.
Your logic is unassailable, especially as existing petrol stations can be easily converted to sell liquid hydrogen, so why the blatant push by Governments and car manufacturers for electric. What do they know that we don't?
 

Dibby

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The whole case for the way electric cars will reduce the use of carbon fuels and gas is a misnomer. All you are doing is burning the same fuels in power stations and storing the energy in a battery. Without a massive increase in electricity generation we would not be able to cope with the additional demand of these extra electric cars and there would be no real saving in greenhouse gas emissions.

Driving electric engines by hydrogen seems a better solution although the technology to gather enough hydrogen does not seem to be here yet even though hydrogen is one of natures most abundant elements.
For now, yes. Longer term, as tech improves, the sources of electricity generation can change with less disruption to the end users, whereas with conventional fossil fuels this is not possible.
 
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The whole case for the way electric cars will reduce the use of carbon fuels and gas is a misnomer. All you are doing is burning the same fuels in power stations and storing the energy in a battery. Without a massive increase in electricity generation we would not be able to cope with the additional demand of these extra electric cars and there would be no real saving in greenhouse gas emissions.

Driving electric engines by hydrogen seems a better solution although the technology to gather enough hydrogen does not seem to be here yet even though hydrogen is one of natures most abundant elements.
Battery tech will improve. Generation methods will change, who knows we may even crack cold fusion one day.
 

jim8flog

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the way the car industry is going we will all be driving electric by about 2030.
.
Fat chance.

The are just so many people in this country who can just about afford to buy a 10 year old car, how are they going to afford to buy an a electric one. Whilst I can afford something better than a 10 year old car I doubt that I ill ever be able to afford newish electric car during the next 11 years.
 

Scozzy

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I saw a segment on a news feed only a few days ago regarding something along these lines, slightly different but bare with me..so it was an island community whose needs couldn't be met with wind and solar year round........the solution? Every car will be electric which in itself isn't amazing but the trick is this........the charger is two way so the car takes a charge to run and when you park up and plug back in, it reverses the charge back into the grid, providing energy needs 24/7 for all as a back up to solar and wind..Was amazing and seemed a great solution to at least some of our coming issues although it didn't address revenue it did give a glimpse of the future and how costs can be saved
 

SocketRocket

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Battery tech will improve. Generation methods will change, who knows we may even crack cold fusion one day.
Battery tech MAY improve, Generation methods MAY change and yes, we MAY crack cold fusion one day. If we want to make these changes in the next decade we MAY have a problem.
 

SocketRocket

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For now, yes. Longer term, as tech improves, the sources of electricity generation can change with less disruption to the end users, whereas with conventional fossil fuels this is not possible.
And you base this optimisum on what exactly? There is no substance to your opinion.
 

SocketRocket

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Your logic is unassailable, especially as existing petrol stations can be easily converted to sell liquid hydrogen, so why the blatant push by Governments and car manufacturers for electric. What do they know that we don't?
They probably know nothing more than we do. Recent political events have removed any optimism that they will have a plan.
 
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Battery tech MAY improve, Generation methods MAY change and yes, we MAY crack cold fusion one day. If we want to make these changes in the next decade we MAY have a problem.
? What a stupid reply.
Look at the advancements in tech over the last 100 odd years. The biggest obstacle is more around getting enough charging points for those who don't have drives. Things like lamppost points are a possibility.
As for generation, the tech already exist to a degree, it's getting it past the nimbys ...
If we had made the effort 20 or 30 years ago instead of letting the big oil cos have there way we might have already got a lot closer to being all electric.
 
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Dando

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My biggest wonder about electric cars is whether they'll be able to produce the extra electricity to charge and power 40 million cars...how many power stations will they need to build..?
Add to that the problem of charging points.
Easy, put a solar panel on the roof!
 
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