Virtuocity - stack and tilt swing.................

[virtuocity]

After 7 months, I can finally hit a 7 iron!!!!! Every club I have I'm getting better over time with, but for some reason I could never hit this damn club. 60 balls at the range today, 30 of which with the 7-iron and I got some really nice ball flight results.

I just need to concentrate on hitting down at the ball.

Question- should the downswing angle for irons be less steep for longer irons? Or the same for all?

 

[Foxholer]

After 7 months, I can finally hit a 7 iron!!!!! Every club I have I'm getting better over time with, but for some reason I could never hit this damn club. 60 balls at the range today, 30 of which with the 7-iron and I got some really nice ball flight results.

I just need to concentrate on hitting down at the ball.

Question- should the downswing angle for irons be less steep for longer irons? Or the same for all?

Depends what you mean by 'down-swing angle'.

Being longer, the angle for lower lofted irons will naturally be less, though ball should still be hit before lowest point of the arc.

 

[virtuocity]

James' (Justone) thread about his swing thoughts (http://tinyurl.com/av4538e) got me thinking about all of the information I have picked up since taking up golf last August.

One of my favourite inspirational quotes of all time:

"Every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain" (H. Simpson)

That's what it's like sometimes for newbie golfers like me.

So I started off golfing looking at weight bias, swing path, grip, alignment, weight transfer, OTT fixes, stopping fats, bouts of shanks and selecting all of the gear I need to hit the ball where I want it to go.

100 range sessions later you find you can hit the ball well. Maybe not as far as you'd want, or as consistently as the single figure handicapper in the next bay, but you're satisfied with your progress. Golf however, is a seductive game. You want MORE, you want to MASTER the unmasterable 'game'. So you take to the course for the first time.

New experiences come at you by the bucket-load; People behind you at the 1st tee boring red-hot rays of judgement into the back of your cranium as you pray to your god, the sky and your driver that your ball makes it at least 150 yards in an acceptable direction. Wet conditions. Greens. Putting. Chipping. Losing balls. Losing your mind. Scoring. Self-hatred. The range seems a long time ago.

30 rounds later, you find yourself scoring better- from 100s to 90s, to knocking at the door of the 80s and yet you still crave more. Off for a video lesson, let's see those trackman figures (because we all know that having an understanding of spin rates and club face angles are vital after 6 months of golfing, right?). My swing speed is too slow, I'm coming in too steep. I'm chicken-winging. Oh god. My grip is weak, my takeaway jerky and does my belly really look that big?!

More. Information.

Off to the range to cure my 20 flaws. 300 balls over 3 days should do it.

Wrong.

Shanks, hitting the range roof 3 times (driver off the tee), thins, fats, hooks (a new one for me) all increase my inner rage. You start to 'notice' the two guys in the bays either side of you and get the feeling like you do at the urinals of a very dodgy pub.

So I step away from the mat, take a deep breath and try to think logically about how I'm going to hit the white ball the way I desire.

Suddenly, I start seeing trackman numbers and video replays buzzing before my eyes. I think about grip, stance, posture, swing paths- all of the things I have learned in 6 months. So overcome was I with this encyclopaedic brainstorm that I put the club back in the bag grabbed my car keys and headed out of the range leaving behind my hopes, wasted sweat and half a bucket of rocks for a 'more deserving' hacker.

Such woes! A hellish week followed and I didn't hit a ball.

To cut a very long post short(er), I once again turn to a GM forumite (no prizes for guessing who) who helps me find my focus once more.

I wasn't taking the club away in the right path, my wrist didn't cock AT ALL and I wasn't moving my weight through the ball.

Such simple things, lost in maze of information. Not that the other information isn't important, it was just blocking what should have been at the forefront of my mind, my swing thoughts if you will.

If you've ever seen a mammal's DNA code written down, it's pages and pages worth of what looks like nonsense. However, take away one single page and you'd have something which, anatomically, wouldn't work.

I think the golf swing is a bit like that; you need all of the information to make it work but just as important is how you control said information rather than it controlling you.

It has taken me 6 months to get to this point.

Whatever happened to rip it and grip it, eh?

 

[JustOne]

...and does my belly really look that big?!

No comment,... fatty! :ears:

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[Slime]

I wasn't taking the club away in the right path, my wrist didn't cock AT ALL and I wasn't moving my weight through the ball.

Such simple things, lost in maze of information. Not that the other information isn't important, it was just blocking what should have been at the forefront of my mind, my swing thoughts if you will.

If you've ever seen a mammal's DNA code written down, it's pages and pages worth of what looks like nonsense. However, take away one single page and you'd have something which, anatomically, wouldn't work.

I think the golf swing is a bit like that; you need all of the information to make it work but just as important is how you control said information rather than it controlling you.

It has taken me 6 months to get to this point.

Whatever happened to rip it and grip it, eh?

If you have the book, sit down with a cup of tea and read it. Then you can just refer to it as required. I find that it simplifies the golf swing into few enough moves to be commited to memory without too much of a problem.
It also makes faults easy to recognise and therefore easy to work on specifically.
It's a great tool.......................a bit like me really!

Slime.

 

[virtuocity]

Wise words from a crazy fella coming up. Just posting here so I don't lose it!

The goal is to hit the ball before the club hits the ground..... the second goal is to hit it with some power.... the third goal is to control where it goes.

If you are achieving those goals and you are happy then voilà!

You will have these moments where things seem to fall into place but what happens from there quite often is that people add a few more tweaks to get that bit better then suddenly they add piece on top of piece until eventually they don't even know where they started and their swing is all over the place..... what you want to try to achieve is a DEFAULT SWING, some feels at set up or in your backswing that are conducive to hitting the ball NICELY. Then when the wheels fall off your swing you can go straight back to that set up EVERY TIME, and those basic 'feels' or 'understandings' of what you need to be doing.

 

[virtuocity]

 

[Chumpalot83]

:lol:

 

[virtuocity]

Quick update stack and tilt fans.....

Irons going very well. So, so, so high and long. I don't even feel the ball off the face a lot of the time.

Struggling with the driver at the moment. I have spoken with a pro before who was very open minded about golf swings. She actually advocates putting weight on the front foot for short irons, but reckons that this isn't such a good idea for long irons and woods.

Until this week, I have been playing with a 3/4 driver swing. This yielded decent results- pretty straight and around 200yards.

But I've known from the start that in order to get down to an 18 handicap this year, I really need to be smacking the ball 240 yards and on the short stuff if possible.

Issue is that I'm hitting the driver far too steep when I move to a full swing causing the ball to balloon up in the air and only going 180-200 yards.

So, I have managed to track down a Stack and Tilt instructor just over an hour away and will be visiting on Friday morning for a 3 hour lesson. Will be getting some vids done (might even put a few up on here for a laugh) and aim to come home with my driver fixed, or with a good idea on how to fix it myself. Will also be running through the rest of the clubs in my bag to check my swing going into my first season.

Wish me luck!

 

[Slime]

So, I have managed to track down a Stack and Tilt instructor just over an hour away and will be visiting on Friday morning for a 3 hour lesson.

Wish me luck!

I don't wish you luck, but I do wish you well!
I'm sure that if you listen well & practice hard, luck will not be an issue. It's not down to luck, it's down to you & I really hope it goes well & you enjoy it.
Please supply an update as I am interested in how you get on & what your pro recommend as I also found the driver the hardest club to use with the S&T pattern.
All the best,

Slime.

 

[CMAC]

So, I have managed to track down a Stack and Tilt instructor just over an hour away

Wish me luck!

who is it?

 

[bobmac]

Issue is that I'm hitting the driver far too steep when I move to a full swing causing the ball to balloon up in the air and only going 180-200 yards.

Any pro would fix that in 5 mins

 

[virtuocity]

who is it?

A guy called Neil Colquhoun in Edinburgh. Never met him before, but going to see how we get on. Certainly knows a lot about S&T.

 

[virtuocity]

Any pro would fix that in 5 mins

That's good to hear.

I am shockingly bad at learning from books, forum posts (just ask JO) and youtube videos. Most people would think "Huh, I'm skying the ball off the tee, let's go on to the forum and ask a question and I'll check some vids".

I just struggle with it and need someone right there to explain it to me in 4 year old terms. Actually, I find it most easy if someone physically moves me (!) so I get to the right positions.

I reckon that the lack of S&T instructors is a big reason why people go back to a more traditional swing pattern.

Looking forward to my lesson.

 

[JustOne]

A guy called Neil Colquhoun in Edinburgh. Never met him before, but going to see how we get on. Certainly knows a lot about S&T.

Well done for finding someone that advocates your swing pattern and for booking a lesson. It's far better for someone to see you face to face.... especially seeing as you can rarely be bothered to video your swing

Hopefully you will take notes or get some kind of video record of what you should be doing and some good drills to work on.

 

[virtuocity]

Well done for finding someone that advocates your swing pattern and for booking a lesson. It's far better for someone to see you face to face.... especially seeing as you can rarely be bothered to video your swing

Hopefully you will take notes or get some kind of video record of what you should be doing and some good drills to work on.

I'LL GET A BLOOMING VIDEO ON THE DAY JAMES AND WILL SEND IT TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!! Your never-ceasing lust for my beautiful swing (and the hunky- not chunky- body which makes it) is freaking me out



But seriously, I really hope to achieve:

-Good recordings of my swing
-Eradication of steep driver swing plane
-Work on driver slice and power
-Get drills to help improve my driver swing. Ones that I 10000% understand
-A nice sandwich and coffee. I'm thinking chicken tikka salad.

 

[JustOne]

I would say that your best bet would be simply to say that you feel like you are terrible THROUGH impact, so that you start to understand the strike, the leverage through the ball and how to turn through the shot without stopping/stalling/flipping or chicken winging.

I'm really pleased that you've taken this route and hope you hit it off well with him. When he says something you don't understand ASK HIM what he's talking about :thup:

 

[virtuocity]

An absolute BRILLIANT day had today with my 3 hour lesson. I'm waiting on pics and videos being sent over and will do a full write-up.

 

[Wolfman]

3 hour lesson ?? thats a long time how much did he charge

When my swing was pants with irons i found my driver was better

As i sorted my irons my driver became a skied shot as i was way too steep into the ball

For driver and fairway woods i really focus on keeping my weight more on the back foot and swinging up at the ball as i transfer my weight to the left

My drives have been far better since i focus on this

Have been tempted to try Stack & Tilt myself as weight shift is something i am working hard on to correct and S&T may be easier

I have read the S&T with the driver is more difficult ?

 

[virtuocity]

3 hour lesson ?? thats a long time how much did he charge

Well I was actually there for about 4 hours. The cost was about the same as a good second hand driver which I would have bought to "change my swing"(!).

For driver and fairway woods i really focus on keeping my weight more on the back foot and swinging up at the ball as i transfer my weight to the left

Yep, I used to try to do this before S&T. Resulted in me getting 'flippy' with the hands and wrists through contact.

I have read the S&T with the driver is more difficult ?

When you say 'difficult' what do you mean? I think the main criticisms are that "Stack and Tilt means you lose distance automatically" and "Tour Pros don't use Stack and Tilt particularly with driver". I have NO OPINION on either statement but all I know is that S&T helps promote (in this order):

1. A good contact with the ball
2. Power and distance required to play the course
3. Accurate direction control

So my point is that with S&T giving me good contact every time, I will hit it (on average) much more further than if I were to use another swing method which might produce more power but a poorer contact and also I have conceded that I will never be a golf professional so that line of argument is irrelevant.

Again, full write up on today to follow soon, but if anyone wants to ask any questions prior to doing so, please do.