The Footie Thread

[ColchesterFC]

Listened to it on Sky Sports. It is clear they realise their mistake shortly after game kicks off again. The VAR operative days several times to delay the game (which I think most of us agree should have been done). The VAR says he can't, which is true under his directives.

So, it was clearly a breakdown in communication, and then protocols not allowing them to correct their mistake.

The positive is, it should be easy to learn from. They will need to address how they communicate, I'm sure their method is overly complex to try and speed things up. Especially as VAR can sometimes be checking multiple incidents, or multiple actions within the same incident. And I'd have thought they would consider allowing stopping a game in extreme circumstances.

This another place that they could learn from rugby. Often hear the ref in rugby say something like "On field decision is try" or "Is there any reason not to award the try". Should be easy enough to replicate in football. "On field decision is offside, no goal" or "Is there any reason not to award the goal". Keep it simple and minimise discussion.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

This another place that they could learn from rugby. Often hear the ref in rugby say something like "On field decision is try" or "Is there any reason not to award the try". Should be easy enough to replicate in football. "On field decision is offside, no goal" or "Is there any reason not to award the goal". Keep it simple and minimise discussion.

Seems like it's another case of whilst VAR isn't perfect and our officials are awful. It's the laws of the game that makes it worse

Like handball law

But this one with the refs knowing it's an error and because play has restarted the laws say they can't stop it

Doesn't really help them make the correct call

 

[Dando]

 

[Neilds]

And so it starts again. Massive mistake was made. Learn from it, move on.

We can’t do that because it is Liverpool FC that have been wronged and that means we all need to talk about it and make sure that LFC get (at least) 3 points and a massive financial compensation. LFC are special so shouldn’t be wronged

 

[Swango1980]

Anyone see the penalty awarded to Napoli versus Madrid? It is good to see the handball law is not just crazy in the UK, it is a global issue

Interestingly, these types of handballs are never awarded by onfield referees. Because it would be crazy to give such a handball for a completely unavoidable incident from the defender. However, it seems the handball law had been specifically adapted to allow VAR a chance to get involved in the game. And when they notify the ref, the ref feels they have no choice to award the penalty under the written law.

Given that fans, pundits, players and managers are pretty unified that a penalty should not be awarded for such things, why on earth do the law makers insist to tell us different?

I certainly get there will still sometimes be subjective incidents regarding accidental hand balls, but hand possibly making yourself unnaturally bigger to block a shot/cross. But last night was nothing of the sort, it was just a joke.

 

[RichA]

Just watched it. If he was a keeper it would've been a good save. Don't really understand the commentators' histrionics, other than just joining the VAR bashing.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

We can’t do that because it is Liverpool FC that have been wronged and that means we all need to talk about it and make sure that LFC get (at least) 3 points and a massive financial compensation. LFC are special so shouldn’t be wronged

This sort of hyperbolic nonsense is why football officiating is on its backside. Fans only see who it involves then judge accordingly.

That error and the audio that has been released is nothing short of gross negligence irrespective of the team involved, although that doesnt suit certain people's narrative now does it.

The result should not be changed nor should Liverpool be financially compensated. Those who messed up should be held accountable though.

 

[Fade and Die]

 

[Deleted member 1740]

View attachment 49836

Now we're getting closer to the truth......

 

[IanM]

My missus has sussed the Spurs/Liverpool VAR error...

....they were watching the Ryder Cup on an ipad!

 

[RichA]

This sort of hyperbolic nonsense is why football officiating is on its backside. Fans only see who it involves then judge accordingly.

That error and the audio that has been released is nothing short of gross negligence irrespective of the team involved, although that doesnt suit certain people's narrative now does it.

The result should not be changed nor should Liverpool be financially compensated. Those who messed up should be held accountable though.

£100,000 per week footballers make plenty of mistakes in each match - missing or conceding goals for their team. They are held to account by maybe getting a grilling from the manager and extra training - no more.
I don't see why a match official with max pay of about £2,000 per week should suffer more than a grilling and extra training.
It isn't PGMOL who have made football a billion pound business - it's greedy and conceited players and owners.

 

[Swango1980]

This sort of hyperbolic nonsense is why football officiating is on its backside. Fans only see who it involves then judge accordingly.

That error and the audio that has been released is nothing short of gross negligence irrespective of the team involved, although that doesnt suit certain people's narrative now does it.

The result should not be changed nor should Liverpool be financially compensated. Those who messed up should be held accountable though.

Which of course is exactly what is happening, isn't it. The PGMOL isn't patting themselves on the back to say how good they were in that situation, and giving everyone involved a bonus, are they? They have been criticised to the nth degree in the sporting media, the news is like football's 9/11.

We all know what happened. There was a communication breakdown, the goal was not given and protocol stopped them from giving it once play resumed. Each of the people involved are human beings, and a mistake was made. All these pundits who say "well, they should have just broke protocol" are a joke, because as usual they get to speak from the benefit of hindsight. Yes, in hindsight we can all say that may have been the better of 2 evils. But seconds after it happened, breaking protocol is a monumental call in such a public environment. Inevitably, they get criticised anyway for the mistake, but there is a threat that Spurs could even legally challenge the call simply because there was nothing documented that allows this to happen when the officials make a mistake. Just like a golfer wouldn't be happy if they were later penalised when a referee made a bad call at the time when advising them about a shot. And just look what happened in F1 when Michael Massi decided to break protocol a few years ago.

The PGMOL will take account of the situation by reviewing how the accident occurred, how this communication can be improved, how protocol may be adjusted and anything else they think of.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

£100,000 per week footballers make plenty of mistakes in each match - missing or conceding goals for their team. They are held to account by maybe getting a grilling from the manager and extra training - no more.
I don't see why a match official with max pay of about £2,000 per week should suffer more than a grilling and extra training.
It isn't PGMOL who have made football a billion pound business - it's greedy and conceited players and owners.

You're comparing oranges with apples.

There's making mistakes and there's making that mistake.

The VAR had 1 job to do. There's no reasonable excuse to how he made that mistake.

 

[Bdill93]

You're comparing oranges with apples.

There's making mistakes and there's making that mistake.

The VAR had 1 job to do. There's no reasonable excuse to how he made that mistake.

Its not just the VAR that didn't do its job though. Technically they did that well, the ref just started the game quickly after. Just a lack of comms about what the ref was actually asking for.

All seems a bit rushed - and that will be because of the complaints that VAR takes ages and delays games - so they're trying to work fast.

Overall though, bad mess up that couldn't be rectified once the game has kicked off again.

 

[Tashyboy]

Which of course is exactly what is happening, isn't it. The PGMOL isn't patting themselves on the back to say how good they were in that situation, and giving everyone involved a bonus, are they? They have been criticised to the nth degree in the sporting media, the news is like football's 9/11.

We all know what happened. There was a communication breakdown, the goal was not given and protocol stopped them from giving it once play resumed. Each of the people involved are human beings, and a mistake was made. All these pundits who say "well, they should have just broke protocol" are a joke, because as usual they get to speak from the benefit of hindsight. Yes, in hindsight we can all say that may have been the better of 2 evils. But seconds after it happened, breaking protocol is a monumental call in such a public environment. Inevitably, they get criticised anyway for the mistake, but there is a threat that Spurs could even legally challenge the call simply because there was nothing documented that allows this to happen when the officials make a mistake. Just like a golfer wouldn't be happy if they were later penalised when a referee made a bad call at the time when advising them about a shot. And just look what happened in F1 when Michael Massi decided to break protocol a few years ago.

The PGMOL will take account of the situation by reviewing how the accident occurred, how this communication can be improved, how protocol may be adjusted and anything else they think of.

And this what is part of what is wrong with VAR. Their protocol stopped the right decision being made. 7 seconds, that’s how long it took To realise the mistake. Yet protocol stopped them from overturning their decision. They even asked the ref to stop the game. But protocol Stopped .
Again with the sending off. The ref was shown one image of an ankle being bent. Is that protocol.
If we are going to continue with VAR and I have no reason to think we won’t. Personally I would scrap the VAR rule book and start again, In the same way WHS has superseded Dr Stableford. Coz in its current format it is rammel.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

So theres the ”VAR only works for the big teams “group complaining that “VAR is fine, get over it”
When errors and faults in things are found, it’s normal practice to see how to avoid those things repeating themselves.
The fact it’s happened against Liverpool is irrelevant, unless you’re in the camp that VAR is perfect as it is. What has occurred is a fundament set up fault with VAR, and whilst some may not like it VAR needs changes in how it operates and it’s scope of responsibility.

 

[Swango1980]

And this what is part of what is wrong with VAR. Their protocol stopped the right decision being made. 7 seconds, that’s how long it took To realise the mistake. Yet protocol stopped them from overturning their decision. They even asked the ref to stop the game. But protocol Stopped .
Again with the sending off. The ref was shown one image of an ankle being bent. Is that protocol.
If we are going to continue with VAR and I have no reason to think we won’t. Personally I would scrap the VAR rule book and start again, In the same way WHS has superseded Dr Stableford. Coz in its current format it is rammel.

Indeed. Start again, which will mean developing another rule book with protocol.

Sounds like an extreme version of throwing the baby out with the bathwater there.

 

[Swango1980]

You're comparing oranges with apples.

There's making mistakes and there's making that mistake.

The VAR had 1 job to do. There's no reasonable excuse to how he made that mistake.

But there is an excuse as to how the mistake was made. The team involved have, no doubt, made many many many good decisions in all the games they've been involved with. They have, without doubt, done a better job than either the untrained you or I could do, or Danny Murphy or whatever other pundit likes to think they know better. Yet, these highly trained people made this big mistake on this occasion.

Mistakes happen, sometimes big mistakes happen. It sounds to me that the PGMOL are acting to try and reduce the odds of a similar big mistake happening in the future.

I'm not sure why you continue to show your outrage? We all agree it was a mistake. Liverpool demanded a copy of the audio. Had they not got that, they'd be of a cover up by some, and that they'd at least get credit if they revealed the audio, so we could simply understand how it was made. They do release the audio, yet they are hammered them anyway because it gives the lynch mob something else to hammer them with. What else do you want them to do. Sack people? Award Liverpool a second dodgy Premier League title because they are so hard done by?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

But there is an excuse as to how the mistake was made. The team involved have, no doubt, made many many many good decisions in all the games they've been involved with. They have, without doubt, done a better job than either the untrained you or I could do, or Danny Murphy or whatever other pundit likes to think they know better. Yet, these highly trained people made this big mistake on this occasion.

Mistakes happen, sometimes big mistakes happen. It sounds to me that the PGMOL are acting to try and reduce the odds of a similar big mistake happening in the future.

I'm not sure why you continue to show your outrage? We all agree it was a mistake. Liverpool demanded a copy of the audio. Had they not got that, they'd be of a cover up by some, and that they'd at least get credit if they revealed the audio, so we could simply understand how it was made. They do release the audio, yet they are hammered them anyway because it gives the lynch mob something else to hammer them with. What else do you want them to do. Sack people? Award Liverpool a second dodgy Premier League title because they are so hard done by?

Correct, there isnt a "reasonable excuse" as i stated.

The VAR and AVAR in the room were not concentrating on the job. That for me is gross negligence. It really is as simple as that.

I'm merely offering my view on a topic that is being discussed, not sure how that is continually showing my outrage

Lynch mob?? Just for having an opinion? Grow up.

Well done on spectacularly missing the point.

 

[IanM]

Yep. Negligence. Plain and simple, sadly.

I have to laugh when I read elsewhere about plots and corruption.