The Footie Thread

[Arthur Wedge]

Yes, I know, I know but from a business standpoint, it was the right decision to make but all this hand wringing is pretty irrelevant. The Premier League wants money, clubs spending big attracts money, big money owners are dissuaded by rules that stop them spending. The punishment will be just enough to seem stern but not make any real difference and City will remain established at the top but now with a sustainable model. They spent to get to where they are probably a decade or more earlier than they could without, right decision to make. You could take all the trophies etc away (nobody would see the new winners as the true champions) and they would still be at the top table and winning again. Everything they did makes perfect sense.

In reality, do the clubs below the top 10 really care what City spend, I doubt it, that has very little bearing on them. The only ones who complain are those who may not be able to keep pace with the big spenders in the future and, realistically, the league will be decided by state owned, oil financed or oligarch owned clubs.

“Business standpoint”

What about from a sporting standpoint

Should any team be allowed to just ignore the rules because it’s “good business” ?

It’s a sport at the end of the day

And multiple teams both in England and Europe may well have missed out on sporting achievements because of potential cheating

 

[GB72]

“Business standpoint”

What about from a sporting standpoint

Should any team be allowed to just ignore the rules because it’s “good business” ?

It’s a sport at the end of the day

And multiple teams both in England and Europe may well have missed out on sporting achievements because of potential cheating

Really, clubs are businesses now and sport just happens to be the product they produce. Not really that many teams that have missed out, only those able to spend enough to be able to compete which, ironically, was all City wanted to do. I just have a serious issue apply morality and integrity to football and I suspect that the punishment at the end of this will support that view. It really is hard to care whether some clubs spend a few hundred million or a billion and the arguments all just sound like 'they have more than us and that's not fair' after a while.

Moralising really just does not hold much water in what has become a totally amoral sport.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It’s a sport at the end of the day

Phil, when are you going to get away from the Corinthian ethos. It hasn't been a sport for a very long time. It is a business and success equals profits. Simple as

 

[AmandaJR]

For @GB72

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Really, clubs are businesses now and sport just happens to be the product they produce. Not really that many teams that have missed out, only those able to spend enough to be able to compete which, ironically, was all City wanted to do. I just have a serious issue apply morality and integrity to football and I suspect that the punishment at the end of this will support that view. It really is hard to care whether some clubs spend a few hundred million or a billion and the arguments all just sound like 'they have more than us and that's not fair' after a while.

Moralising really just does not hold much water in what has become a totally amoral sport.

So it doesn’t matter then what clubs do - open season for all to cheat how they see fit

So when Man City fans are crying about Arsenals tactics on the sporting field - it’s shoold be laughed at because off the field they are cheating

It’s still a sport , the fans are following a sporting team , they want to see their team win the trophies

It doesn’t matter if one team or 10 teams have missed out someone still has missed out because of a team cheating

Teams that followed the rules missed out potentially because a team didn’t follow the rules

as a Leicester fan when you found out Saracens cheated to win did you ignore because it was “business decision”

Or does the lack of moral compass only happen when it comes to football

 

[GB72]

So it doesn’t matter then what clubs do - open season for all to cheat how they see fit

So when Man City fans are crying about Arsenals tactics on the sporting field - it’s shoold be laughed at because off the field they are cheating

It’s still a sport , the fans are following a sporting team , they want to see their team win the trophies

It doesn’t matter if one team or 10 teams have missed out someone still has missed out because of a team cheating

Teams that followed the rules missed out potentially because a team didn’t follow the rules

as a Leicester fan when you found out Saracens cheated to win did you ignore because it was “business decision”

Or does the lack of moral compass only happen when it comes to football

I did not react one way or another to Saracens, really did not care, hell we were done for a couple of lesser offences as well but also so cannot really moralise about Saracens on that front, as I said, a salary cap is very different to FFP in my eyes anyway. A salary cap creates equality, FFP just protects the status quo of clubs at the top table but that, again, may just be my interpretation.

I also see on field cheating and how much is spent as 2 totally different things. Also they should not cry about Arsenal's tactics, bit of gamesmanship, nothing more.

I have a perfectly fine moral compass thank you. I just really do no get wound up about the whole thing. If anything. my moral compass is outraged more by the unfair nature of the status quo upheld by FFP than I am about breaking it.

Really, not everything is black and white and as for open season, as far as spending is concerned, yes it should be open. These are businesses now and should be free to spend and invest as they want.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I did not react one way or another to Saracens, really did not care, hell we were done for a couple of lesser offences as well but also so cannot really moralise about Saracens on that front, as I said, a salary cap is very different to FFP in my eyes anyway. A salary cap creates equality, FFP just protects the status quo of clubs at the top table but that, again, may just be my interpretation.

I also see on field cheating and how much is spent as 2 totally different things. Also they should not cry about Arsenal's tactics, bit of gamesmanship, nothing more.

I have a perfectly fine moral compass thank you. I just really do no get wound up about the whole thing. If anything. my moral compass is outraged more by the unfair nature of the status quo upheld by FFP than I am about breaking it.

Really, not everything is black and white and as for open season, as far as spending is concerned, yes it should be open. These are businesses now and should be free to spend and invest as they want.

Why would you see on field cheating different the end goal is still the same - trying to win , City allegedly broke ffp rules so that they could spend more money to get players so they could win , they wanted to win the league , they wanted to win the CL - they spent to get the best players and manager to get that

It’s cheating to win - on or off the field , and yes it’s black and white , there are rules for the clubs and players to follow

The rules are made by the clubs , voted by the club and supposed to be followed by the club - yes that’s black and white , doesn’t matter if a club thinks they are unfair - they all voted for them

Clubs like players can’t pick and chose what rules to follow

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Why would you see on field cheating different the end goal is still the same - trying to win , City allegedly broke ffp rules so that they could spend more money to get players so they could win , they wanted to win the league , they wanted to win the CL - they spent to get the best players and manager to get that

It’s cheating to win - on or off the field , and yes it’s black and white , there are rules for the clubs and players to follow

The rules are made by the clubs , voted by the club and supposed to be followed by the club - yes that’s black and white , doesn’t matter if a club thinks they are unfair - they all voted for them

Clubs like players can’t pick and chose what rules to follow

So if Liverpool engage in dark arts (or cheating) and get a result that would be fine? Players on the pitch will use the rules and try and get away with whatever they can. Is that ethical?

 

[GB72]

Why would you see on field cheating different the end goal is still the same - trying to win , City allegedly broke ffp rules so that they could spend more money to get players so they could win , they wanted to win the league , they wanted to win the CL - they spent to get the best players and manager to get that

It’s cheating to win - on or off the field , and yes it’s black and white , there are rules for the clubs and players to follow

The rules are made by the clubs , voted by the club and supposed to be followed by the club - yes that’s black and white , doesn’t matter if a club thinks they are unfair - they all voted for them

Clubs like players can’t pick and chose what rules to follow

Maybe it is the aging rebel in me but I have less issue with people challenging or bypassing rules that uphold an unfair status quo than I do with blindly following and supporting an obviously unfair situation.

As for on pitch and off pitch matters, really I do not care about who spends what in a sport that has so much money sloshing around. One billion, two billion, really matters not. I would be happy with a set of rules that allowed unlimited spending as long as it did not create debt for the club. That would be FFP.

As is clear, we all have different opinions. Mine when it comes to City and FFP is that I am pretty ambivalent.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Maybe it is the aging rebel in me but I have less issue with people challenging or bypassing rules that uphold an unfair status quo than I do with blindly following and supporting an obviously unfair situation.

As for on pitch and off pitch matters, really I do not care about who spends what in a sport that has so much money sloshing around. One billion, two billion, really matters not. I would be happy with a set of rules that allowed unlimited spending as long as it did not create debt for the club. That would be FFP.

As is clear, we all have different opinions. Mine when it comes to City and FFP is that I am pretty ambivalent.

The clubs all voted on the rules

Man City voted on the rules - needs 14 for the rules to pass

So 2/3s of the clubs don’t think they are unfair

Shouldn’t they respect the majority ? And I’m sure that city voted for them as well

 

[Neilds]

Really, clubs are businesses now

I know where you are coming from here, but if any other business was run like a football club with all the losses they have, then they would have gone bust years ago

 

[PaulMdj]

I don’t think any Club can take a moral high ground when it comes to City.

When these Clubs are using Lawyers and Accountants to get round ffp then wanting other Clubs to lose points is a joke. Villa, Chelsea

Other Clubs receiving money from State owned Companies - Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal.

A little bit of dirty money is OK it seems.

 

[GB72]

I don’t think any Club can take a moral high ground when it comes to City.

When these Clubs are using Lawyers and Accountants to get round ffp then wanting other Clubs to lose points is a joke. Villa, Chelsea

Other Clubs receiving money from State owned Companies - Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal.

A little bit of dirty money is OK it seems.

I think that this is a lot of why my opinion is as it is. The whole league is just a minefield of moral hypocrisy and so caring about City and spending money to break a cartel really does not register any form of outrage to me. I say it has all gone too far, just get on with it and let them spend what they want or send the all off to a European Super League where the state funds and oligarchs can all compare the size of their wallets.

 

[PaulMdj]

I think that this is a lot of why my opinion is as it is. The whole league is just a minefield of moral hypocrisy and so caring about City and spending money to break a cartel really does not register any form of outrage to me. I say it has all gone too far, just get on with it and let them spend what they want or send the all off to a European Super League where the state funds and oligarchs can all compare the size of their wallets.

I don’t think there is 1 Club who has not looked to bend the rules or not been punished for misbehaving in other areas.

It’ll get worse or imploud before it gets better.

 

[Tashyboy]

Personally I think the best sanction for city is a set number of years where they start the league on around -30 points.

Little to no chance of a top 4 finish before a ball is kicked.

Relegating them slows them down for 2 seasons (if down to the Championship)

If there guilty. Personally I would like to see a public flogging.

 

[AmandaJR]

Maybe it is the aging rebel in me but I have less issue with people challenging or bypassing rules that uphold an unfair status quo than I do with blindly following and supporting an obviously unfair situation.

As for on pitch and off pitch matters, really I do not care about who spends what in a sport that has so much money sloshing around. One billion, two billion, really matters not. I would be happy with a set of rules that allowed unlimited spending as long as it did not create debt for the club. That would be FFP.

As is clear, we all have different opinions. Mine when it comes to City and FFP is that I am pretty ambivalent.

Yikes. What on earth are you suggesting?!

 

[clubchamp98]

If City are not punished in some meaningful way if found guilty.
The likes of Newcastle or others might as well just spend what they want regardless and just take the same punishment as City.

It’s a bit of a mess.

 

[Swango1980]

Imagine there was a way for authorities to effectively have almost live information on a club's finances, so that when the transfer window is open, they pretty much know what money a football club has available to them. So, all they'd need to do is not sanction a transfer if over budget.

Messes like this would never really happen, where a club can potentially breach the restrictions, then use gaslighting tactics to appear to be the victim in all this, over many years before it gets sorted. Then, at end, potentially have some fairly arbitrary points deduction and fine, which feels far away from competitive sport but more related to a TV law drama like Suits.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

So it doesn’t matter then what clubs do - open season for all to cheat how they see fit

So when Man City fans are crying about Arsenals tactics on the sporting field - it’s shoold be laughed at because off the field they are cheating

It’s still a sport , the fans are following a sporting team , they want to see their team win the trophies

It doesn’t matter if one team or 10 teams have missed out someone still has missed out because of a team cheating

Teams that followed the rules missed out potentially because a team didn’t follow the rules

as a Leicester fan when you found out Saracens cheated to win did you ignore because it was “business decision”

Or does the lack of moral compass only happen when it comes to football

Phil, if an article I read today has any truth in it I would be inclined to start quietening down.
The article said the Newcastle owners were looking at trying to sell up, and buy Liverpool instead.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Phil, if an article I read today has any truth in it I would be inclined to start quietening down.
The article said the Newcastle owners were looking at trying to sell up, and buy Liverpool instead.

I hope not - wouldn’t want them anywhere near the club

I suspect it’s come from FSG working with PIF in something unrelated to Liverpool