The Footie Thread

[Arthur Wedge]

Football ownership / spending has not been fair for 40-50 years. It's just a matter of who the money has changed.

It’s not your right - but that doesn’t mean that because you have a lot of money that the rules can ignored because you don’t think they are fair

Unfortunately the rules were put in place after Chelsea and Abramovich and the unlimited spending then

I don’t agree with the current rules but there does need to be rules put in place to not allow the sport to be swept up by oil states with billions behind them

Got to find a balance

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It’s not your right - but that doesn’t mean that because you have a lot of money that the rules can ignored because you don’t think they are fair

Unfortunately the rules were put in place after Chelsea and Abramovich and the unlimited spending then

I don’t agree with the current rules but there does need to be rules put in place to not allow the sport to be swept up by oil states with billions behind them

Got to find a balance

I don't object to a balance, it would be good for the game, but the hypocrisy of clubs and fans who were okay when they were the biggest spenders but don't like being usurped is a little tough to stomach. Real balance will not happen, the PL want to protect their brand and that means clubs being able to buy the big players, pay the big wages. Big spending needs big money.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I don't object to a balance, it would be good for the game, but the hypocrisy of clubs and fans who were okay when they were the biggest spenders but don't like being usurped is a little tough to stomach. Real balance will not happen, the PL want to protect their brand and that means clubs being able to buy the big players, pay the big wages. Big spending needs big money.

Exactly and the rich will keep on getting rich and the others will struggle and if a side is getting into Europe (Europa league) it is seen as a major achievement but for most PL is survival and another year on the gravy train is all that counts. There is never going to be a balance anymore

 

[Bdill93]

Exactly and the rich will keep on getting rich and the others will struggle and if a side is getting into Europe (Europa league) it is seen as a major achievement but for most PL is survival and another year on the gravy train is all that counts. There is never going to be a balance anymore

I accept some of this - but in the last 2 years alone we have seen the following sides playing European football - Villa, Brighton, Newcastle, West Ham, Tottenham, United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal - that's half the league..

Its hard to stay up there, but its more than possible.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I accept some of this - but in the last 2 years alone we have seen the following sides playing European football - Villa, Brighton, Newcastle, West Ham, Tottenham, United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal - that's half the league..

Its hard to stay up there, but its more than possible.

And as I said for the likes of Brighton it was a hugely successful season and they got their reward. The likes of United, Chelsea, City, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal will always have a European place as a target and not making it is seen as an underachievement so I don't think its fait to call it half the table

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I accept some of this - but in the last 2 years alone we have seen the following sides playing European football - Villa, Brighton, Newcastle, West Ham, Tottenham, United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal - that's half the league..

Its hard to stay up there, but its more than possible.

True, but can some of those teams maintain that if they then need to sell players due to FFP. Instead of being able to build, teams have to sell. Will you get more of a rotation of teams such as Newcastle, Villa, Brighton, West Ham, as they have a great year, then need to sell and struggle with excess fixtures, not a good enough squad? The bigger teams don't have that problem as they have that depth built up over a number of years.

 

[Bdill93]

And as I said for the likes of Brighton it was a hugely successful season and they got their reward. The likes of United, Chelsea, City, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal will always have a European place as a target and not making it is seen as an underachievement so I don't think its fait to call it half the table

Difference of opinion then I guess, I accept its hard, it takes a lot of great recruitment and good coaching for a non "big 6" side to achieve Europe. It is however, more than possible to achieve.

 

[Bdill93]

True, but can some of those teams maintain that if they then need to sell players due to FFP. Instead of being able to build, teams have to sell. Will you get more of a rotation of teams such as Newcastle, Villa, Brighton, West Ham, as they have a great year, then need to sell and struggle with excess fixtures, not a good enough squad? The bigger teams don't have that problem as they have that depth built up over a number of years.

Well, watch this space, Villa are this years test subject effectively!

We have proved people wrong already, we qualified 7th and got ECL, then 4th so qualified for CL (in a season playing ECL).

Now we have CL football and a league campaign to manage - slow growth, year by year, grow the brand and the finances will follow.

Edit - one thing to note I suppose is we do already have a 42k stadium which many do not.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I don't object to a balance, it would be good for the game, but the hypocrisy of clubs and fans who were okay when they were the biggest spenders but don't like being usurped is a little tough to stomach. Real balance will not happen, the PL want to protect their brand and that means clubs being able to buy the big players, pay the big wages. Big spending needs big money.

When I grew up watching and seeing players arrive I didn’t have a clue about the money

I saw players being sold and then players arriving

There was some initial backing from Moores family in the 60’s but even then we weren’t the biggest spenders and most all way through until prob Blackburn clubs spent what they earned

It’s why Moores looked to sell us because he cooldnt afford to keep up - I remember when he lent us £10mil for Kuyt

But clubs weren’t just spending someone’s billions

Even when United were spending more than others it was money earned by the club

But the biggest spenders weren’t the most successful - the best spenders , the smarts recruiters

Look at the winners from 1970 until the Prem

Everton , Arsenal , Derby , Leeds , Forest , Vila , Liverpool

None of them were the biggest spenders - Man Utd were and didn’t win the title

 

[GB72]

Parity and balance will never come because that requires salary caps and spending limits that are equal and affordable across the board. That will never happen if for no other reason than the Premier League needs the best players etc to attract the big TV deals and keep the money rolling in and so if they restrict that, another league will step in to fill their shoes.

The damage is already done. By triggering player value inflation, all but a few will fall behind. One of the big spenders pays £100 million for a player and that becomes the norm. Now the £70 million player is going to be worth £100 million according to their club and that prices out most other teams. The time will come where the bottom 10 or 12 clubs become basically scouts for the top few, they find the players, show they can perform in this league the bigger clubs step in to buy them. wage inflation has a similar impact.

I was one of a massive minority that does not see the harm in the big clubs going off to a European Super League. You then have the remaining clubs who can all compete and a far better league run on a reasonable budget.

As for Man City, the Premier League do not want to scare away the big investors. There will be fines, there will be dramatic points deductions that will result in City not being able to qualify for Europe this year but also put them in no danger of relegation then it will be business as normal.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

When I grew up watching and seeing players arrive I didn’t have a clue about the money

I saw players being sold and then players arriving

There was some initial backing from Moores family in the 60’s but even then we weren’t the biggest spenders and most all way through until prob Blackburn clubs spent what they earned

It’s why Moores looked to sell us because he cooldnt afford to keep up - I remember when he lent us £10mil for Kuyt

But clubs weren’t just spending someone’s billions

Even when United were spending more than others it was money earned by the club

But the biggest spenders weren’t the most successful - the best spenders , the smarts recruiters

Look at the winners from 1970 until the Prem

Everton , Arsenal , Derby , Leeds , Forest , Vila , Liverpool

None of them were the biggest spenders - Man Utd were and didn’t win the title

I don't know about that. Leeds under Revie brought in a lot of players at top end fees for the day.

 

[clubchamp98]

The PL set the template with their actions against Forest and Everton. I've said it previously, no deductions should take place once the season has begun. Every team should know where they stand on day 1 of the season. They shouldn't mess teams about part way through (it affects all teams, not just the ones getting a deduction)

They have set a precedent though.
So if they don’t treat City the same that’s wrong as well.
Pretty poor situation.

 

[AmandaJR]

I don't object to a balance, it would be good for the game, but the hypocrisy of clubs and fans who were okay when they were the biggest spenders but don't like being usurped is a little tough to stomach. Real balance will not happen, the PL want to protect their brand and that means clubs being able to buy the big players, pay the big wages. Big spending needs big money.

100% agree. Makes me laugh though how self-righteous some are and it's suddenly all about equality and fairness...

Always good for a wee chuckle though

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Well, watch this space, Villa are this years test subject effectively!

We have proved people wrong already, we qualified 7th and got ECL, then 4th so qualified for CL (in a season playing ECL).

Now we have CL football and a league campaign to manage - slow growth, year by year, grow the brand and the finances will follow.

Edit - one thing to note I suppose is we do already have a 42k stadium which many do not.

Newcastle were last years. They had to sell Anderson, that hurt them. Minteh is a good prospect lost as well. I doubt they wanted to sell either but had to to balance FFP.

 

[birdiemachine]

Most football supporters are glory hunters anyway, simple enough to change which team they support.....
Hate football with a passion but have a grudging respect for fans of low level teams who turn up every week.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

To be clear the issue isn’t clubs being rich and being able to spend money

Its clubs ignoring rules and believing they can use expensive lawyers to get away it

That’s exactly what happened with the UEFA charges - they were found guilty and were able to get away with due to the tactics employed by expensive lawyers

When the likes of United , Blackburn and Chelsea spent lots of their owners money it was done within the rules of the sport at the time

Just because a club doesn’t like the rules doesn’t mean they are ok to go ahead and ignore them

120 plus charges - no other club has ever had that level of charges against them

 

[Tashyboy]

I don't object to a balance, it would be good for the game, but the hypocrisy of clubs and fans who were okay when they were the biggest spenders but don't like being usurped is a little tough to stomach. Real balance will not happen, the PL want to protect their brand and that means clubs being able to buy the big players, pay the big wages. Big spending needs big money.

Where’s the clap emoji

 

[Norrin Radd]

All this talk of no relegation for city is total nonsense, they won't even be given a points deduction. Why , because whatever the findings rule they will contest it and drag it on and on , hopefully it will be resolved during a closed season then we can hopefully see the full punishment delivered, which should mean relegation and a points reduction.
Just my opinion but I think it would be good.

 

[Tashyboy]

Well, watch this space, Villa are this years test subject effectively!

We have proved people wrong already, we qualified 7th and got ECL, then 4th so qualified for CL (in a season playing ECL).

Now we have CL football and a league campaign to manage - slow growth, year by year, grow the brand and the finances will follow.

Edit - one thing to note I suppose is we do already have a 42k stadium which many do not.

The biggest point for me on there is slow growth, and Villa are doing it with a manager who was at a club in the Prem that wanted a quick return to the top.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

All this talk of no relegation for city is total nonsense, they won't even be given a points deduction. Why , because whatever the findings rule they will contest it and drag it on and on , hopefully it will be resolved during a closed season then we can hopefully see the full punishment delivered, which should mean relegation and a points reduction.
Just my opinion but I think it would be good.

The good thing about this is they can’t appeal to the findings - they won’t be able to do what happened with UEFA