The Footie Thread

[PaulMdj]

So spending rules were brought in with rugby - even then one club broke them to bring in all the best players and were caught

Was it 5 wins in 7 years before they were caught ?

Setting spending levels at the lowest punishes teams that have worked to build up their revenue - Liverpool don’t have a protected status , we have build the club up to increase the revenues , and it was down through good spending/selling and scouting

If the limit is put at the lowest then the players just leave en mass because clubs won’t be able to match the wages abroad

A limit on spending at the highest revenue means that everyone can spend the same - offer the same wages etc , if a clubs revenue isn’t as high as the top then their owner can fill the gap

That makes it a level field

Prior to FSG yous were a basket case like everyone else.

The biggest difference and the one you don’t mention is, Profile, yous were and are one of the biggest Clubs in the World with a history to match.

FSG have been superb, but they took over a top, edtablished Club, a mid or low table Club has no chance of getting anywhere near yous without spending millions.

I don’t know, maybe new owners should be given a certain amount of time 3-5yrs to spend what they like before they have to comply with financial regulations.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Prior to FSG yous were a basket case like everyone else.

The biggest difference and the one you don’t mention is, Profile, yous were and are one of the biggest Clubs in the World with a history to match.

FSG have been superb, but they took over a top, edtablished Club, a mid or low table Club has no chance of getting anywhere near yous without spending millions.

I don’t know, maybe new owners should be given a certain amount of time 3-5yrs to spend what they like before they have to comply with financial regulations.

So we have managed to get back up through good management on and off the field , good scouting , good selling and spending

Prem Clubs have a gold mine to tap into , they are broadcast all over the world

Everton were as a big in the 80’s and they could have easily built up but made poor decisions

Maybe there can be a grace period as such when a new owner comes in

But whatever money is put in isn’t put on the club

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So we have managed to get back up through good management on and off the field , good scouting , good selling and spending

Prem Clubs have a gold mine to tap into , they are broadcast all over the world

Everton were as a big in the 80’s and they could have easily built up but made poor decisions

So what about all those seasons in the wilderness where you were nowhere near the title. Was that good management? Aquilani, Poulsen, Carroll

 

[PaulMdj]

So we have managed to get back up through good management on and off the field , good scouting , good selling and spending

Prem Clubs have a gold mine to tap into , they are broadcast all over the world

Everton were as a big in the 80’s and they could have easily built up but made poor decisions

You weren’t down, you were winning Major trophies just 4-5yrs before. it just needed the expertise FSG brought in.

That’s completely different to say, Newcastle, who have won nowt since the 50’s and are wanting to get to you level.

We’re the poster child for bad owners

 

[Arthur Wedge]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827045358960058821

 

[clubchamp98]

Bit of both, but a fan could dream of a Mr Big coming in and getting your team promoted to higher leagues or competeing in Europe in just a few seasons, now it can’t happen.

Look at Newcastle, new owner, Club boost, crest of a wave, and now being hampered, standing still or even going backwards because of the rules, they haven’t been allowed to build on the momentum, forced to sell home grown players to balance the books, it’s not about the football being played, it’s about financial columns.

Agree with this ,
It’s not sport anymore just buisness.

But are other businesses hampered like PL clubs?

 

[clubchamp98]

Just seen this, I know that and part of the problem is the PL and EFL not being joined up and Clubs (Leics) again getting away with breaking rules.

Yes if promotion and relagation are going to happen they should be playing under the same set of rules.!

 

[clubchamp98]

Just been for a PXG fitting in Liverpool .
It was right opposite Everton’s new stadium.
So went for a look around, it’s fantastic
But the roads and buildings around it are a shambles.
There’s a one way system and it took me an hour to get home ( six miles) there needs to be some serious infrastructure changes before it opens.

It’s very impressive though.

 

[Bdill93]

Antony has regressed? He’s been awful since the day he signed. If you’re referring to him being a poorer player than he was in Holland, it’s quite clear the two leagues don’t compare, never have done, so it’s impossible to say whether a player is better or worse than they were before moving to this country.

Rashford regressed? He’s been over-hyped from day one. Never been anywhere near the player people seem to think he is. But to argue he has regressed under ten Hag is perhaps a little odd, given his stats just two years ago. I’m not saying he was great that season, far from it. But his stats were right up there.

Onana regressed? If anything he’s probably marginally better now than when he signed. He’s certainly no worse.

Sancho regressed? He’s never had a chance at United so it’s impossible to say. I’m willing to bet he’ll get no more game time at Chelsea.

All in all, whilst I understand your agenda, it’s an odd post.

You cant sign players for 50m+ and put their progression or therefore lack of down to "cant adapt to the prem" its the managers job to make them adapt.

Onana was ridiculously good in Italy, I thought you really solved your GK for 10+ years when he signed but hes failed to impress.

I totally agree on Rashford, his hype has always been over the top, he's a good level prem player but nothing more - yet paid like one of the best. He absolutely has regressed though, his confidence looks like an all time low when he's on the ball.

Its plainly obvious that your transfer strategy changed this summer though, you've signed younger players with a lot of scope for improvement - Ten Hag has the opportunity to prove me wrong this season.

I'm not simply on a wind up - and its hard to make this argument about Chelsea because their manager hasn't been consistent for long enough - but that would explain lack of progression there too.

 

[Reemul]

Any club in the top 6 with a long history of winning and a large foreign fanbase has a massive advantage against big local clubs that don't win anything on a regular basis with very little profile abroad. They cannot attract the level of income and investement that those clubs can and FFP prevents thos types of clubs using their own money to bring them up to that level. Chelsea are teh perfect example of how that was overcome.

Liverpool and Man Utd are examples of those that benefit most from it, they have a massive world wide fan base and profile with additional sponsorship being attracted, they also have a history that attracts the best and continues to do so. There is only 1 way to overcome this currently in the short and medium term consistently and that is to spend a massive amount of money and to spend it well (which is harder than you think). However clubs like Newcastle are prevented from doing so without any real risk to themselves, it's just those clubs at the top do not want a 7th club, that's why they hate Man City. You know it's like the clique at the golf club, they don't want anyone else joining in.

Take Palace, who looked to be building a really good squad of players, waste of time, there best will be pinched through no fault of their own and even if they had a billion to spend, they can't spend it.

There is too much to lose if you aren't in the champions league and does anyone really think Villa will be there regularly, no of course not, they jujst had a to sell some players for ffp even though they have plenty of cash, just like Newcastle and even Spurs.

Lots of clubs are getting or had new stadiums or upgrading their's but Everton for example won't get a sweet new stadium title with a massive sponsorship deal regardless.

When you add in the opinion of those rose tinted fans, who post any old rubbish when the reality is so clear is frustrating. Fed up reading some posters absolute rubbish as to why, when and where. I'd be embarassed to be one of them whoppers to be honest.

 

[Hobbit]

Without a doubt Marcus Rashford can drive some people nuts. His poor attitude when he loses the ball is a prime example - tracking back he doesn’t do. But his he really that bad. His goals scored in his first two seasons, 22 & 21 was excellent. Then a poor season, 5, but looking at the number of matches played I’d hazard a guess he was injured or carrying/just getting over an injury - was that his ankle injury season?

Two seasons ago he netted 30 goals but, from memory, the knives were already out. As for last season, again poor but who wasn’t in that team.

Not my cup of tea but I do think he gets some unfair stick.

2019-20	Premier League	31	17	4	0	3	4	6[a]	1	—	44	22
2020-21	Premier League	37	11	3	1	4	1	13[e]	8	—	57	21
2021-22	Premier League	25	4	2	0	0	0	5[c]	1	—	32	5
2022-23	Premier League	35	17	6	1	6	6	9[a]	6	—	56	30
2023-24	Premier League	33	7	5	1	1	0	4[c]	0	—	43	8
2024-25	Premier League	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Rashford#cite_note-FACS-396

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[Billysboots]

You cant sign players for 50m+ and put their progression or therefore lack of down to "cant adapt to the prem" its the managers job to make them adapt.

Onana was ridiculously good in Italy, I thought you really solved your GK for 10+ years when he signed but hes failed to impress.

I totally agree on Rashford, his hype has always been over the top, he's a good level prem player but nothing more - yet paid like one of the best. He absolutely has regressed though, his confidence looks like an all time low when he's on the ball.

Its plainly obvious that your transfer strategy changed this summer though, you've signed younger players with a lot of scope for improvement - Ten Hag has the opportunity to prove me wrong this season.

I'm not simply on a wind up - and its hard to make this argument about Chelsea because their manager hasn't been consistent for long enough - but that would explain lack of progression there too.

But not everyone can adapt to the Premier League. History is littered with examples of players who have been considered world class before they landed on these shores.

Angel di Maria is a standout case in point. Absolutely unbelievable wherever he played until he arrived at United under LVG. The manager has only very recently been quoted as saying he played di Maria in every position across the forward line, but that he simply couldn’t adapt to the high press employed by so many Premier League teams.

Juan Veron is another. Incredible player, who simply couldn’t cut it in the Premier League, either at United or Chelsea.

The Premier League is an entirely different beast to any other top league in Europe. I always thought that was widely accepted. It’s far more physical, far quicker and more intense than anything most of these overseas players will ever have experienced. Not all of them are capable of adapting. Some of them perhaps don’t want to.

I remember when the likes of Evra, Stam and Vidic arrived at Old Trafford. They weren’t overnight successes. Far from it in the case of Evra. But all three ended up being fabulous signings. But a lot of that, in addition to being down to Ferguson and his staff, was probably down to the mentality of the players themselves.

The players you refer to - Antony, Sancho and Rashford in particular - have never struck me as having the mentality to make the best of the talent they have. No amount of coaching is going to help if a player has a weak mentality, and I’m afraid far too many United players in recent years just don’t seem up for the fight. That’s on them, not the manager.

 

[Bdill93]

But not everyone can adapt to the Premier League. History is littered with examples of players who have been considered world class before they landed on these shores.

Angel di Maria is a standout case in point. Absolutely unbelievable wherever he played until he arrived at United under LVG. The manager has only very recently been quoted as saying he played di Maria in every position across the forward line, but that he simply couldn’t adapt to the high press employed by so many Premier League teams.

Juan Veron is another. Incredible player, who simply couldn’t cut it in the Premier League, either at United or Chelsea.

The Premier League is an entirely different beast to any other top league in Europe. I always thought that was widely accepted. It’s far more physical, far quicker and more intense than anything most of these overseas players will ever have experienced. Not all of them are capable of adapting. Some of them perhaps don’t want to.

I remember when the likes of Evra, Stam and Vidic arrived at Old Trafford. They weren’t overnight successes. Far from it in the case of Evra. But all three ended up being fabulous signings. But a lot of that, in addition to being down to Ferguson and his staff, was probably down to the mentality of the players themselves.

The players you refer to - Antony, Sancho and Rashford in particular - have never struck me as having the mentality to make the best of the talent they have. No amount of coaching is going to help if a player has a weak mentality, and I’m afraid far too many United players in recent years just don’t seem up for the fight. That’s on them, not the manager.

I will allow you Sancho...

Just taking Antony alone here -

He is Ten Hags fault. He wanted him and went and got his man.

Fortunately, you seem to have a backroom again to make these decisions now, so hopefully for you these silly buys for mega cash stop.

 

[PJ87]

I will allow you Sancho...

Just taking Antony alone here -

He is Ten Hags fault. He wanted him and went and got his man.

Fortunately, you seem to have a backroom again to make these decisions now, so hopefully for you these silly buys for mega cash stop.

Ten hag had both kudos and Antony at Ajax.

He went and paid ridiculous money for Antony who is bang average

That alone shows how much if a rubbish spotter of talent he is

 

[Billysboots]

Without a doubt Marcus Rashford can drive some people nuts. His poor attitude when he loses the ball is a prime example - tracking back he doesn’t do. But his he really that bad. His goals scored in his first two seasons, 22 & 21 was excellent. Then a poor season, 5, but looking at the number of matches played I’d hazard a guess he was injured or carrying/just getting over an injury - was that his ankle injury season?

Two seasons ago he netted 30 goals but, from memory, the knives were already out. As for last season, again poor but who wasn’t in that team.

Not my cup of tea but I do think he gets some unfair stick.

2019-20	Premier League	31	17	4	0	3	4	6[a]	1	—	44	22
2020-21	Premier League	37	11	3	1	4	1	13[e]	8	—	57	21
2021-22	Premier League	25	4	2	0	0	0	5[c]	1	—	32	5
2022-23	Premier League	35	17	6	1	6	6	9[a]	6	—	56	30
2023-24	Premier League	33	7	5	1	1	0	4[c]	0	—	43	8
2024-25	Premier League	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Rashford#cite_note-FACS-396

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Even two years ago, despite scoring a lot of goals, there were periods of several weeks when Rashford was absolutely woeful. His goals, as I recall, came in bursts. And they papered over considerable cracks.

Rashford is an appalling decision maker. Invariably he makes the wrong one, and ends up running down blind alleys into a clutch of opposition players and is dispossessed. He will then either go to ground and stay there, or stand there with his arms outstretched as if to say his cock up is anyone’s fault but his.

I’ve said it time and again since I first saw him play. Marcus Rashford is capable of the extraordinary. But those moments of brilliance are becoming fewer and farther between. For the most part he spends his time making the ordinary look utterly impossible.

I genuinely and sincerely believe United need to offload him. More so than any other player on the books. They need to move on from the misguided belief that they can build a team round him, because I am firmly of the view that he holds them back. He has the look of a man who hates his football, and as a consequence I’m afraid I hate watching him.

 

[Billysboots]

I will allow you Sancho...

Just taking Antony alone here -

He is Ten Hags fault. He wanted him and went and got his man.

Fortunately, you seem to have a backroom again to make these decisions now, so hopefully for you these silly buys for mega cash stop.

But what you were saying was that Antony has regressed. He hasn’t. He’s been filth since the day he arrived.

The discussion was about players going backwards under ten Hag and I was merely trying to counter that with a view that the regression you referred to wasn’t necessarily evident.

I absolutely agree that ten Hag should have known better than to sign Antony. But to suggest he has regressed would indicate he was ever remotely decent. He has stunk the club out since the day he arrived!!

Good discussion, though.

 

[PJ87]

But what you were saying was that Antony has regressed. He hasn’t. He’s been filth since the day he arrived.

The discussion was about players going backwards under ten Hag and I was merely trying to counter that with a view that the regression you referred to wasn’t necessarily evident.

I absolutely agree that ten Hag should have known better than to sign Antony. But to suggest he has regressed would indicate he was ever remotely decent. He has stunk the club out since the day he arrived!!

Good discussion, though.

What about rashford? He has regressed under him no?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Just been for a PXG fitting in Liverpool .
It was right opposite Everton’s new stadium.
So went for a look around, it’s fantastic
But the roads and buildings around it are a shambles.
There’s a one way system and it took me an hour to get home ( six miles) there needs to be some serious infrastructure changes before it opens.

It’s very impressive though.

The moment that location was chosen I've asked about how they expect to ship people in and out on match day. I've asked locals, I've looked on the club website, the council plans. They don't seem to have a plan . It's bad enough on that road anyway, and that's before you throw 50k fans into the mix.

It will be horrific and it's as clear as you like to most people.

 

[PaulMdj]

The moment that location was chosen I've asked about how they expect to ship people in and out on match day. I've asked locals, I've looked on the club website, the council plans. They don't seem to have a plan . It's bad enough on that road anyway, and that's before you throw 50k fans into the mix.

It will be horrific and it's as clear as you like to most people.

They are improving the roads around the Stadium, as well as building a Park & Ride hub in Bootle, this will also include a 3,500 Capacity entertainment zone near the Strand.
It also has a stop on the train line at Sandhills.
The idea on match days is to have exclusion zones so as to avoid traffic congestion around the Stadium, either use the park & ride, trains or walk from City centre car parks which have also been upgraded (or are being)

Probably won’t know the real effects until the construction is finished.

Everton stadium fan zone planned at Sandhills train station - BBC News

Plans have been submitted to deal with "increased footfall" for Everton's new stadium.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sefton Council and Everton team up for matchday transport plan

<p>Everton Football Club and Sefton Council have agreed to work together to improve transport between the borough and the Club’s new Bramley-Moore Dock stadium.</p>

sefton.gov.uk

 

[Billysboots]

What about rashford? He has regressed under him no?

Almost everything I have ever said about Rashford has clearly gone sailing straight over your head, Paul

He has ALWAYS been ridiculously overrated. The traits I described in my recent post are nothing new. He has always been a shocking decision maker, has always been capable of the extraordinary whilst making an utter hash of the ordinary, has never tracked back, has always gone to ground and stayed there, often feigning a nonexistent injury.

None of this has suddenly started under ten Hag.