The Footie Thread

[Deleted member 21784]

Bit late to the party so have missed the 'know it alls' proclaiming Southgate as the greatest thing thing since sliced bread....

My take on it all is that I always judge on what I see on the pitch and last night was a big improvement. We actually looked very dangerous in the first half and had a decent side on the backfoot, which is something we've not seen for the last 10 games or so. The second half looked like the same old story as we got pinned back and nothing was being done about it. However Southgate then actually made the sort of call we've all wanted him to do - he took the right players off, put the right players on and we had ago instead of playing for extra time and pens.

Our strength is our squad depth and surprise surprise, we used it well and it made the difference and won the game. Brilliant changes last night and I praise Southgate for that. Just like I give him stick when he clearly gets it wrong. There's no double standards with that outlook at all.

My concerns are where the hell has that peformance been all tournament? Was it down to coaching or simply the players getting more space against a team who attacked with more numbers? Whatever anyone says we've been poor for the majority of the tournament and have had an easy ride to the final, however that counts for nothing if we win on Sunday.

I liked seeing Southgate worked up and passionate last night, it's what we want to see. Ironically I think Sunday is the game we actually need to sit back a bit and hit on the counter. Spain are a young side (in key areas) and while technically superb, are also lightweight and have the potential to bottle it on the big occasion. I really fancy us if we turn like and play the same way we did in the first half

As you touched on..it's easier for players to get more space on the ball when not playing against the low block.

That and the change of system to play Bellingham and foden just behind kane (well Infront when Harry drops back) means foden isn't wasted on the left.

We managed to keep the Netherlands pretty quiet apart from a long ranger that went in and then set pieces. Rest of the time they were bang average

 

[4LEX]

As you touched on..it's easier for players to get more space on the ball when not playing against the low block.

That and the change of system to play Bellingham and foden just behind kane (well Infront when Harry drops back) means foden isn't wasted on the left.

We managed to keep the Netherlands pretty quiet apart from a long ranger that went in and then set pieces. Rest of the time they were bang average

The change has been good but was only done due to a suspension, rather than a positive decision so it's more stumbled upon than anything. Maybe harsh but who cares it's now all about Sunday.

Williams will struggle against Walker, then with Saka and Foden working together on the side there's a going to be serious space for us to attack.

My concern is Harry Kane, he just looks miles off it.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

The change has been good but was only done due to a suspension, rather than a positive decision so it's more stumbled upon than anything. Maybe harsh but who cares it's now all about Sunday.

Williams will struggle against Walker, then with Saka and Foden working together on the side there's a going to be serious space for us to attack.

My concern is Harry Kane, he just looks miles off it.

Agreed. It's so strange he has had arguably his best ever season but his game just looks off. He's never been super quick but he looks even slower, keeps dropping far to deep. Soon as any of the other strikers come on we look more dangerous

But hey it's a step up from having darius vassell as our depth

 

[Voyager EMH]

World Cup is the pinnacle of football.
The Euros is only about 25% of the world .

He hasn’t even won it yet.

I'm not intending to criticise this post, but build upon it.

Europe is roughly 10% of world population.

Euros being 25% of the world in footballing terms might be a low estimate, in my view.
Of all the countries in the world that can raise a significant team of quality to compete at world level, I think Europe is over 50%.

When I compare the last 16 of Euros and last 16 of World Cup, the Euros is sometimes better standard overall.
Some silly teams get into the world cup that would be thrashed by a few European teams that miss out on a World Cup place due to the continental quotas.

Comparing the relative significance of Euros vs World Cup is not an exact science.
I would be inclined to give them near equal status with regard to difficulty to lift the cup.

But the World Cup will always have to be looked upon as The Big One.

 

[Billysboots]

Bit late to the party so have missed the 'know it alls' proclaiming Southgate as the greatest thing thing since sliced bread....

My take on it all is that I always judge on what I see on the pitch and last night was a big improvement. We actually looked very dangerous in the first half and had a decent side on the backfoot, which is something we've not seen for the last 10 games or so. The second half looked like the same old story as we got pinned back and nothing was being done about it. However Southgate then actually made the sort of call we've all wanted him to do - he took the right players off, put the right players on and we had ago instead of playing for extra time and pens.

Our strength is our squad depth and surprise surprise, we used it well and it made the difference and won the game. Brilliant changes last night and I praise Southgate for that. Just like I give him stick when he clearly gets it wrong. There's no double standards with that outlook at all.

My concerns are where the hell has that peformance been all tournament? Was it down to coaching or simply the players getting more space against a team who attacked with more numbers? Whatever anyone says we've been poor for the majority of the tournament and have had an easy ride to the final, however that counts for nothing if we win on Sunday.

I liked seeing Southgate worked up and passionate last night, it's what we want to see. Ironically I think Sunday is the game we actually need to sit back a bit and hit on the counter. Spain are a young side (in key areas) and while technically superb, are also lightweight and have the potential to bottle it on the big occasion. I really fancy us if we turn up like and play the same way we did in the first half

Sums it up perfectly.

 

[Fade and Die]

We aren't there in spite of him. It's now where west ham fans like @Fade and Die have been for a while. Success but without style. Can't stand watching it

England look awful but since Southgate arrived we have one of the best records in tournaments

If he wins Sunday he will be the best England manager ever. There is no arguing with that. Just the style doesn't suit most

A change will prob happen, but at least with Southgate you know you will get far, grind those results out

100% correct. I see loads of comparisons between Gareth’s team and the Moysia, both have/had a lot of talent at their disposal but I think because they were not attack minded as players they don’t know what to do with them…Any glory is in spite of the management not because of it.

If we win (dog willing) then he will rightly be Knighted and he will deserve it more than most who get the K.

 

[Golfmmad]

How’s about sticking ALL negative thoughts and views into a box called For After..just enjoy the fact that England are in the Final and simply have faith that Southgate knows what he is doing - that the players trust in him and know what they have to do.

Just a thought from a bystander…

The most sensible post on this thread.

 

[Golfmmad]

Tash, I know you don’t like Southgate, I know you followed City home & away for many years, but you really do surprise me with your lack of football knowledge at times! Saying Koeman summed up Southgates lack of managerisl skills is beyond me!

This is the 4th game in a row we’ve won from conceding the first goal, Koeman said we were the better team in the 1st half and he had to change it, Southgate brought Shaw on to balance the left.

Holland up their game and came at us, do you really expect Southgate to knee jerk to every decision an opposition manager takes? Maybe he believed in Foden’s ability to step up.

Even Koeman said in the same interview he thought the 2nd half was 50/50.

We all want Southgate out, but give the man some respect, he’s done what no other England manager has managed to do, we are once again 1 win away from a trophy.

I take it Pep or any other manager you rate has never lost a game and got every decision correct.

No, not everybody wants Southgate out, me included.

The first half yesterday from England was the best yet. Of course Koeman changed things second half. They were more aggressive and pushed us more. I dont think we played poorly second half, we dealt with all they threw at us, it was always going to be more difficult and we defended really well.

Watkins goal was absolutely brilliant and also it wasn't a lucky/flukey goal, or a deflection, or even an own goal, no, it was a team goal excellently executed by Watkins.

 

[Slime]

The change has been good but was only done due to a suspension, rather than a positive decision so it's more stumbled upon than anything. Maybe harsh but who cares it's now all about Sunday.

Williams will struggle against Walker, then with Saka and Foden working together on the side there's a going to be serious space for us to attack.

My concern is Harry Kane, he just looks miles off it.

And if Mainoo can keep Rodri quiet, like he did in the FA Cup Final, then we have a chance.

 

[clubchamp98]

I'm not intending to criticise this post, but build upon it.

Europe is roughly 10% of world population.

Euros being 25% of the world in footballing terms might be a low estimate, in my view.
Of all the countries in the world that can raise a significant team of quality to compete at world level, I think Europe is over 50%.

When I compare the last 16 of Euros and last 16 of World Cup, the Euros is sometimes better standard overall.
Some silly teams get into the world cup that would be thrashed by a few European teams that miss out on a World Cup place due to the continental quotas.

Comparing the relative significance of Euros vs World Cup is not an exact science.
I would be inclined to give them near equal status with regard to difficulty to lift the cup.

But the World Cup will always have to be looked upon as The Big One.

It was just a figure plucked out to show Brazil Argentina etc don’t play in the Euros!

 

[Tashyboy]

And if Mainoo can keep Rodri quiet, like he did in the FA Cup Final, then we have a chance.

And there in lies a problem for me that needs to be sorted. City started with Gvardiol on the left wing. In England we have Trippier. Both setups were wrong. Doku came on at half time and the game changed. The balance was better. For me Shaw needs to start to give balance, width and an attacking option.
The other problem is Kane. When Doku came on he gave City and Rodri better options. Watkins gives England better options.

 

[pendodave]

100% correct. I see loads of comparisons between Gareth’s team and the Moysia, both have/had a lot of talent at their disposal but I think because they were not attack minded as players they don’t know what to do with them…Any glory is in spite of the management not because of it.

If we win (dog willing) then he will rightly be Knighted and he will deserve it more than most who get the K.

Exactly.
Watching England is just like watching west ham, but with some better players.
Having said that, I feel like moysie would have got slightly more out of this lot.

 

[harpo_72]

I think England will be under siege if Kane plays and just hoofing it out of play.
It’s definitely not the way forward to play Kane. Start with Watkins see how they cope with him. Bring Toney on for 30 mins in 2nd half. Then give Kane 4 mins at the end.
We should be pushing the energy levels up of the wingers and use our replacements.
Defensively I think the new boys have been a revelation. So I think they are fine.
Rice might need to be substituted out, I would like to see the Crystal Palace lad , I don’t see much wrong with Gallagher. I know he gets yellow cards, but he does step up the energy.
The Spanish play technical football they want time on the ball, they create space .. so England need to press them hard. But England must punish them on the break .. Kane is not allowing this, this was also the downfall of the French ( Mbappe really was anonymous but still drew defensive attention)

 

[Orikoru]

I think England will be under siege if Kane plays and just hoofing it out of play.
It’s definitely not the way forward to play Kane. Start with Watkins see how they cope with him. Bring Toney on for 30 mins in 2nd half. Then give Kane 4 mins at the end.
We should be pushing the energy levels up of the wingers and use our replacements.
Defensively I think the new boys have been a revelation. So I think they are fine.
Rice might need to be substituted out, I would like to see the Crystal Palace lad , I don’t see much wrong with Gallagher. I know he gets yellow cards, but he does step up the energy.
The Spanish play technical football they want time on the ball, they create space .. so England need to press them hard. But England must punish them on the break .. Kane is not allowing this, this was also the downfall of the French ( Mbappe really was anonymous but still drew defensive attention)

Watkins isn't an international starter, he's an impact sub, all day long. To advocate starting him over Kane would be like saying we should drop Rooney back in the day and start Jermain Defoe. It's just not happening. Gallagher in for Rice, have you lost your mind? He has about 10% of Rice's ability on a good day.

Anyway, we already know exactly what the line-up will be, bar the 50-50 choice between Trippier and Shaw.

 

[PaulMdj]

I think England will be under siege if Kane plays and just hoofing it out of play.
It’s definitely not the way forward to play Kane. Start with Watkins see how they cope with him. Bring Toney on for 30 mins in 2nd half. Then give Kane 4 mins at the end.
We should be pushing the energy levels up of the wingers and use our replacements.
Defensively I think the new boys have been a revelation. So I think they are fine.
Rice might need to be substituted out, I would like to see the Crystal Palace lad , I don’t see much wrong with Gallagher. I know he gets yellow cards, but he does step up the energy.
The Spanish play technical football they want time on the ball, they create space .. so England need to press them hard. But England must punish them on the break .. Kane is not allowing this, this was also the downfall of the French ( Mbappe really was anonymous but still drew defensive attention)

You might as well relax The starting XI will be same as the semi-final apart from the possibility of Trippier for Shaw.

There is absolutely no way Southgate is going to drop his Captain.

#ingarethwetrust

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Spain would love England to come out and waste their energy chasing the ball. It would play right into their hands.

We’d be gassed after half an hour of chasing shadows and get taken apart.

 

[harpo_72]

Watkins isn't an international starter, he's an impact sub, all day long. To advocate starting him over Kane would be like saying we should drop Rooney back in the day and start Jermain Defoe. It's just not happening. Gallagher in for Rice, have you lost your mind? He has about 10% of Rice's ability on a good day.

Anyway, we already know exactly what the line-up will be, bar the 50-50 choice between Trippier and Shaw.

Your a spurs fan ?
The analogy between Rooney and Defoe is totally inappropriate.
Do you think Rice has enough steam to play a full 90mins ? I don’t, not at the pace I want it played at .. so he will need to be subbed out. The Gallagher debate is lost on me, but I figured if your blindly pushing Kane your not really going to offer up much of a debate as to why Gallagher couldn’t replace Rice.

 

[Orikoru]

Your a spurs fan ?
The analogy between Rooney and Defoe is totally inappropriate.
Do you think Rice has enough steam to play a full 90mins ? I don’t, not at the pace I want it played at .. so he will need to be subbed out. The Gallagher debate is lost on me, but I figured if your blindly pushing Kane your not really going to offer up much of a debate as to why Gallagher couldn’t replace Rice.

Gallagher is like a Yorkshire terrier, just chasing around the pitch. He has very little ability with the ball. Rice is a fantastic player he just needs to rein in his tendency to want to do too much with it. If we want to control the midfield against a team like Spain, I don't see how taking off our far-and-away best holding midfielder achieves that.

 

[harpo_72]

Spain would love England to come out and waste their energy chasing the ball. It would play right into their hands.

We’d be gassed after half an hour of chasing shadows and get taken apart.

If England don’t have an outlet they will be anyway.
The press is required.. sitting back on Spain is pointless.. Spain although it was second string struggled with an energetic team.
If he starts Kane and he is immobile England will be 2-3 down before half time and gassed. If plays counter attacking football with Watkins England could be up and have the Spanish in a place they don’t do so well ..

 

[harpo_72]

Gallagher is like a Yorkshire terrier, just chasing around the pitch. He has very little ability with the ball. Rice is a fantastic player he just needs to rein in his tendency to want to do too much with it. If we want to control the midfield against a team like Spain, I don't see how taking off our far-and-away best holding midfielder achieves that.

There is a place for a midfielder that nibbles and is physically present. All the top teams have them, they let the skill players play .. it’s just we don’t talk about them but we should because it’s a part of the game that’s crucial.