The Footie Thread

[crdb]

Same starting line up (unless shaw can play 90 mins) as the holland game is fine for me, but everyone needs to be on it, no sloppy passes or missed touches or we'll find ourselves behind again. Same subs at 60-70 mins to bring the attack to life again & I think we have a chance.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Same starting line up (unless shaw can play 90 mins) as the holland game is fine for me, but everyone needs to be on it, no sloppy passes or missed touches or we'll find ourselves behind again. Same subs at 60-70 mins to bring the attack to life again & I think we have a chance.

I think the starting line up remaining the same (Shaw for Trippier maybe) but I'd love to see the subs come on much earlier if we are winning or losing so they at least have enough time to influence the game

 

[crdb]

I think the starting line up remaining the same (Shaw for Trippier maybe) but I'd love to see the subs come on much earlier if we are winning or losing so they at least have enough time to influence the game

We did see an earlier than usual substitution last game in shaw for trippier, but yes the game was so quiet for 20-30 mins in the second half, fresh legs and a new view of the game could have made it a lot more interesting

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We did see an earlier than usual substitution last game in shaw for trippier, but yes the game was so quiet for 20-30 mins in the second half, fresh legs and a new view of the game could have made it a lot more interesting

I think one way or another it will be a more reactive game and I can't see it drifting for long periods

 

[Swango1980]

I still don't get dropping Kane for Watkins, unless Kane is injured. For a lot of the tournament, the entire team has been poor, yet people want to blame individuals for that. When, in reality, it was really the entire system England were playing, and just changing one or 2 players was probably not going to change that.

Remember, England were actually very good in the first half against Netherlands, and Kane played a role. He might not have banged in a lot of goals from open play, but it was an excellent penalty. It was also a really good effort that lead to the penalty, whether you think it was a penalty of not. I know he missed it, but he was on it in a flash and hit a really powerful shot. Not all other forwards would have that level of instinct. I watched the match in a pub, so didn't overly analyse every performance, but was Kane's movement helping the likes of Foden get space and allowing them to shine?

Gallagher for Rice is a shocker of an opinion, in my opinion. Rice may not have performed at his absolute best, but I'm sure most will agree he is a higher level of player than Gallagher. Why would Gallagher come in and be immune to making mistakes?

England have struggled against the highly defensive sides. But, they showed a lot more flair against a more attacking side, albeit probably tired in second half and maybe needed to bring on fresh legs a bit earlier. Spain will be interesting, but I'm sure they'd rather face Gallagher or Watkins from the start than Rice or Kane. But, Watkins has shown what he can do off the bench now, and he'll have confidence in making an energetic impact if he comes on, especially against tiring defenders. Throw in the likes of Palmer as well, I think England have just about developed a bit of that fear factor again, just in time for the final.

 

[PaulMdj]

If England don’t have an outlet they will be anyway.
The press is required.. sitting back on Spain is pointless.. Spain although it was second string struggled with an energetic team.
If he starts Kane and he is immobile England will be 2-3 down before half time and gassed. If plays counter attacking football with Watkins England could be up and have the Spanish in a place they don’t do so well ..

You do realise Watkins has played a total of around 45 minutes in these championship? Yet you think he’s the difference between England winning or losing?

Personally I’ll go with Southgate who has managed to reach a final using Watkins so sparingly.

I’m also confused why Watkins is your answer when until the quarter final on wednesday I don’t remember you ever mentioning him on here.

 

[harpo_72]

You do realise Watkins has played a total of around 45 minutes in these championship? Yet you think he’s the difference between England winning or losing?

Personally I’ll go with Southgate who has managed to reach a final using Watkins so sparingly.

I’m also confused why Watkins is your answer when until the quarter final on wednesday I don’t remember you ever mentioning him on here.

So do you persist with Kane who hasn’t offered anything?
Watkins is a mobile forward .. use him.
You select your attacking line based on the opposition’s weaknesses. I think I would play Toney or Watkins but not full game time- we have squad depth and 5 subs. That is a strategy in its own right.

If and it’s clearly the case we are not getting any joy from Kane as our striker you change it .. how good he was historically is irrelevant this is the here and now, play the in form players. Kane fizzled out in the Bundisliga towards the end ..
Southgate made the right change but it was a little late, but the pressure should be off him and allow him to pick Toney or Watkins .. Southgate also did not react to the tiredness exhibited by his players .. this is a high attrition tournament and squad rotation is required.. so you stick with him as the manager but he is not strategically on point nor is he observant enough to notice his team’s on pitch state. But his support staff should guide him help him .. as a man manager I think he is very empathetic and supportive.
But if we follow your advice we will be second best .. stubbornness is a weakness not a strength.

 

[PJ87]

Gallagher is like a Yorkshire terrier, just chasing around the pitch. He has very little ability with the ball. Rice is a fantastic player he just needs to rein in his tendency to want to do too much with it. If we want to control the midfield against a team like Spain, I don't see how taking off our far-and-away best holding midfielder achieves that.

This is where I started to go off rice. World class central defensive midfielder.. but decided he wants to be the new Stevie G and started pushing forward constantly. We let him , soucek had to stay back taking his ability in the box out the game. Wish someone would have a word and say stick at defending Declan, your fantastic at it and it's what England need you for. Leave the driving forward for Bellingham (which is why I liked them as a pair)

 

[Swango1980]

So do you persist with Kane who hasn’t offered anything?
Watkins is a mobile forward .. use him.
You select your attacking line based on the opposition’s weaknesses. I think I would play Toney or Watkins but not full game time- we have squad depth and 5 subs. That is a strategy in its own right.

If and it’s clearly the case we are not getting any joy from Kane as our striker you change it .. how good he was historically is irrelevant this is the here and now, play the in form players. Kane fizzled out in the Bundisliga towards the end ..
Southgate made the right change but it was a little late, but the pressure should be off him and allow him to pick Toney or Watkins .. Southgate also did not react to the tiredness exhibited by his players .. this is a high attrition tournament and squad rotation is required.. so you stick with him as the manager but he is not strategically on point nor is he observant enough to notice his team’s on pitch state. But his support staff should guide him help him .. as a man manager I think he is very empathetic and supportive.
But if we follow your advice we will be second best .. stubbornness is a weakness not a strength.

Kane hasn't offered anything, except

The only goal against Denmark, helping England to a point
The winning goal versus Slovakia
Winning and scoring the penalty to equalise versus Netherlands

Sure, he hasn't scored 2 or 3 goals every game, but there is no guarantee Watkins or Toney would have done so. Bring in Watkins or Toney, there is no guarantee they score or do well. And, if Spain beat England in the final, after Southgate leaves the likes of Kane on the bench, let's not pretend most of the English public and media would lambast him for not picking one of the best strikers in the world, but instead picking a player that has played very little for England.

I think any manager wants to get a foothold in the game before anything else, rather than go gung ho attack from the start. Better to build up some momentum, rather than go for the kill and then find yourself 2 or 3 down inside 20 minutes. I think Southgate has a much better chance of taking control of the game with experienced, confident players like Kane, rather than players who have featured little with England, and don't have much of a relationship with their team mates. Better to leave those players as the slightly unpredictable wild cards in the second half, if you need to change the dynamics of the game.

 

[PJ87]

So do you persist with Kane who hasn’t offered anything?
Watkins is a mobile forward .. use him.
You select your attacking line based on the opposition’s weaknesses. I think I would play Toney or Watkins but not full game time- we have squad depth and 5 subs. That is a strategy in its own right.

If and it’s clearly the case we are not getting any joy from Kane as our striker you change it .. how good he was historically is irrelevant this is the here and now, play the in form players. Kane fizzled out in the Bundisliga towards the end ..
Southgate made the right change but it was a little late, but the pressure should be off him and allow him to pick Toney or Watkins .. Southgate also did not react to the tiredness exhibited by his players .. this is a high attrition tournament and squad rotation is required.. so you stick with him as the manager but he is not strategically on point nor is he observant enough to notice his team’s on pitch state. But his support staff should guide him help him .. as a man manager I think he is very empathetic and supportive.
But if we follow your advice we will be second best .. stubbornness is a weakness not a strength.

Don't be silly. Our players aren't remotely tired. We play at such a low gear all the time and only put it in 3rd when we need a goal that we have really only run about 45 mins

 

[harpo_72]

Don't be silly. Our players aren't remotely tired. We play at such a low gear all the time and only put it in 3rd when we need a goal that we have really only run about 45 mins

You don’t suppose that’s because they are tired ?!?

 

[harpo_72]

Kane hasn't offered anything, except

The only goal against Denmark, helping England to a point
The winning goal versus Slovakia
Winning and scoring the penalty to equalise versus Netherlands

Sure, he hasn't scored 2 or 3 goals every game, but there is no guarantee Watkins or Toney would have done so. Bring in Watkins or Toney, there is no guarantee they score or do well. And, if Spain beat England in the final, after Southgate leaves the likes of Kane on the bench, let's not pretend most of the English public and media would lambast him for not picking one of the best strikers in the world, but instead picking a player that has played very little for England.

I think any manager wants to get a foothold in the game before anything else, rather than go gung ho attack from the start. Better to build up some momentum, rather than go for the kill and then find yourself 2 or 3 down inside 20 minutes. I think Southgate has a much better chance of taking control of the game with experienced, confident players like Kane, rather than players who have featured little with England, and don't have much of a relationship with their team mates. Better to leave those players as the slightly unpredictable wild cards in the second half, if you need to change the dynamics of the game.

It’s all ifs and buts .. however I don’t think Kane has done enough to warrant this blind faith.
It’s a very typical situation for an England manager .. pick a name you know we wasted John Barnes with this attitude.
I agree the media and all the Kane fan boys will be up in arms .. and then when the result is another lost final then it’s just history repeating itself.

 

[Swango1980]

It’s all ifs and buts .. however I don’t think Kane has done enough to warrant this blind faith.
It’s a very typical situation for an England manager .. pick a name you know we wasted John Barnes with this attitude.
I agree the media and all the Kane fan boys will be up in arms .. and then when the result is another lost final then it’s just history repeating itself.

Blind faith?

He has scored and assisted goals all through his career. Last season, I think he scored 36 goals in the Bundesliga. He has scored 66 goals in 97 games for England. He is still only 30, so not exactly about to collect his pension.

Having faith in Kane's ability, certainly. But is is definitely not BLIND faith. What is more likely to be considered closer to BLIND faith, is to drop Harry Kane for another player that has featured very little for England and assume they will get England ticking nicely right from the start of the game

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I would be gobsmacked if Kane is dropped for the start. I can see him coming off but he will be there at the beginning

 

[harpo_72]

I would be gobsmacked if Kane is dropped for the start. I can see him coming off but he will be there at the beginning

He won’t be dropped … just read the posts they are totally over looking everything that’s happened during the competition. It’s totally fan boy rose tinted glasses .. we seem to be forgetting the guys that have come on for small time slots have set the game alight and well let’s be honest here Kane hasn’t not for the amount of game time he has been given.
I give up, if this is the football you want to see if you don’t want the “in form “ guys to play and believe in some stats that are derived over a season and misinterpreted then so be it ..

 

[Deleted member 29109]

He won’t be dropped … just read the posts they are totally over looking everything that’s happened during the competition. It’s totally fan boy rose tinted glasses .. we seem to be forgetting the guys that have come on for small time slots have set the game alight and well let’s be honest here Kane hasn’t not for the amount of game time he has been given.
I give up, if this is the football you want to see if you don’t want the “in form “ guys to play and believe in some stats that are derived over a season and misinterpreted then so be it ..

Those that have come on and had an impact have done so late in the game against players that have played most of the game. It’s a completely different thing doing that from the start.

There are tactical reasons Kane drops deep.

If I was a Spanish defender I would rather see Tony or Watkins on the team sheet than Kane.

I don’t care what kind of football we play. Only that we win. That is all that matters.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

He won’t be dropped … just read the posts they are totally over looking everything that’s happened during the competition. It’s totally fan boy rose tinted glasses .. we seem to be forgetting the guys that have come on for small time slots have set the game alight and well let’s be honest here Kane hasn’t not for the amount of game time he has been given.
I give up, if this is the football you want to see if you don’t want the “in form “ guys to play and believe in some stats that are derived over a season and misinterpreted then so be it ..

As we know stats can be presented in many ways to prove the point trying to be made. I think everyone knows our best line up and that has to include Kane. Whether going forward he is going to be more and more substituted earlier (think Shearer was taken off something like 11 times and Lineker 18 times) remains to be seen.

 

[harpo_72]

As we know stats can be presented in many ways to prove the point trying to be made. I think everyone knows our best line up and that has to include Kane. Whether going forward he is going to be more and more substituted earlier (think Shearer was taken off something like 11 times and Lineker 18 times) remains to be seen.

That’s why a 4 minute cameo for Kane at the end is a nice touch

 

[Swango1980]

He won’t be dropped … just read the posts they are totally over looking everything that’s happened during the competition. It’s totally fan boy rose tinted glasses .. we seem to be forgetting the guys that have come on for small time slots have set the game alight and well let’s be honest here Kane hasn’t not for the amount of game time he has been given.
I give up, if this is the football you want to see if you don’t want the “in form “ guys to play and believe in some stats that are derived over a season and misinterpreted then so be it ..

So, if anyone suggests Kane should start, your logic behind their opinion is that they have fan boy rose tinted glasses. Rather than the fact that Harry Kane is considered one of the best strikers in world football?

Every player can have periods of poorer form, whether that be because of themselves, or the system they are playing in. But, it doesn't make them poor players. And, the thing with a great player who lacks form, is that they are still a great player who will come into form again at some point. If you just drop them, then you just delay the point at which they come back into form. No idea how England will play Sunday, and wouldn't be surprised if it is another wooden display. However, for all I know, Kane might score 3 or 4 goals and England thrash Spain. Unlikely, but if any player is capable of such a thing, I'd say Kane is still most likely.

At any rate, I think Watkins is a much better impact player than Kane, as he has the pace and directness to exploit tiring defenses. Toney can also have a good impact, if England start playing more long balls later in game. Whereas if Watkins started and England were still not firing, would bring Kane on later on have the same impact, knowing his style of play?

 

[Orikoru]

This is where I started to go off rice. World class central defensive midfielder.. but decided he wants to be the new Stevie G and started pushing forward constantly. We let him , soucek had to stay back taking his ability in the box out the game. Wish someone would have a word and say stick at defending Declan, your fantastic at it and it's what England need you for. Leave the driving forward for Bellingham (which is why I liked them as a pair)

Yeah, he's frustrating. He needs to decide, he can either be a world class holding midfielder, maybe second only to Rodri - or just a pretty good box-to-box player. But if he chooses to focus on holding I think his career is all set. Top teams are always crying out for a player like that.