The Footie Thread

[PJ87]

What else will Southgate have won

Ramsey also won as a club manager

And took the England team to the latter stages of other championships

Southgate won’t be above Ramsey if he wins the Euros

"If he wins Sunday he will be the best England manager ever. There is no arguing with that. Just the style doesn't suit most"

Best England manager, not best English manager.

Club manager doesn't come into it.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

"If he wins Sunday he will be the best England manager ever. There is no arguing with that. Just the style doesn't suit most"

Best England manager, not best English manager.

Club manager doesn't come into it.

And even then Ramsey won a World Cup which is a trophy that’s above the Euros

 

[PJ87]

And even then Ramsey won a World Cup which is a trophy that’s above the Euros

Ok Phillip whatever.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

But what else was achieved by sir Alf? The rest of his record compared? That's why Southgate will go down more successful if we win.

Sorry but in my opinion a world cup will always trump a Euros and so Sir Alf will still be the best England manager for me

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Think the World Cup trumps the Euros!

It always will - it’s the pinnacle of international football

Ramsey did ok in other tournaments as well , quarters and semis of Euros and of course the famous 1970 Quarter Final against Germany

He also won the Home International comp 8 times ( 3 shared )

I don’t know many who don’t see the World Cup above the Euros - Euros is the equivalent of - Copa America , AFCON etc

 

[PJ87]

Sorry but in my opinion a world cup will always trump a Euros and so Sir Alf will still be the best England manager for me

That it is however if he wins it his record since taking over is outstanding , we used to dream of a quarter final or a semi final. We have had 2 finals in his stewardship alone. Credit where it's due for that

 

[clubchamp98]

But what else was achieved by sir Alf? The rest of his record compared? That's why Southgate will go down more successful if we win.

World Cup is the pinnacle of football.
The Euros is only about 25% of the world .

He hasn’t even won it yet.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

That it is however if he wins it his record since taking over is outstanding , we used to dream of a quarter final or a semi final. We have had 2 finals in his stewardship alone. Credit where it's due for that

Not denying that he has done a good job but lets remember we got to a semi in Italia 90 and Euro 96 so it isn't a totally new thing

 

[PJ87]

Not denying that he has done a good job but lets remember we got to a semi in Italia 90 and Euro 96 so it isn't a totally new thing

Not even the same manager... The point is Southgate has got to 2 finals , a semi and a quarter final .. that's an outstanding record for one manager , footballs been pretty rubbish to watch but no arguing that his record speaks for itself.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Not even the same manager... The point is Southgate has got to 2 finals , a semi and a quarter final .. that's an outstanding record for one manager , footballs been pretty rubbish to watch but no arguing that his record speaks for itself.

My point was more in response to the comment about only dreaming of a quarter or semi. I am not arguing that for Southgate to have done what he has is a great achievement. We could argue we should have won the last Euros and arguably should have beaten Croatia in 2018 but ultimately Ramsey still the only one to win anything. I hope that changes Sunday

 

[PJ87]

My point was more in response to the comment about only dreaming of a quarter or semi. I am not arguing that for Southgate to have done what he has is a great achievement. We could argue we should have won the last Euros and arguably should have beaten Croatia in 2018 but ultimately Ramsey still the only one to win anything. I hope that changes Sunday

We maybe should have won the euros. However a loss on a pen shoot out for a euros final isnt too bad

 

[harpo_72]

Had a busy day, finally got 20minutes to read through everyone’s thoughts.
Quite interesting takes on all parts.
For me the tactical change is Foden and Bellingham coming deeper and moving more but even so Kane is too static.. he doesn’t present a threat on the central defence.
Saka was good all the way through the 1st half and Kane was pressing as well. This definitely impacted the quality of Gakpo.
The penalty, I have no idea .. but I will say Simmons was close to the wind on a foul on Rice who did go down too easily. So in the end all is equal in my mind.
The degradation in the 2nd half is related to the pressing and it dropping off .. Kane first then Saka but is the second because of the first? The changes were good but came too late, Watkins was there for a cross but also gave the pass opportunities. I think Kane should have come off 20minutes earlier.. then perhaps we might have seen even more from Foden irrespective of Kon-man’s changes ( I remember yes I don’t forgive ) .
I think you could argue that Southgate is at the whim of the media .. Kane doesn’t start and they will slag him off etc but this blind faith he will score is almost like believing god will stop war and famine - highly unlikely!
Spain will not play fast they will play their game and be highly mobile. Can we beat them, yes but not with Kane up front, the Spanish defenders are quick even Nacho .. we have to stretch their defensive line and make it be where we want it .. I keep saying this in some way or other.. Kane doesn’t give you this unless you play a runner off him but do you want to sacrifice Foden or Bellingham.. ??
For me I am happy we have seen Watkins score , we saw also Foden running riot .. I want more of this.. I want Saka’s crosses which are in the right places being used .. so if Kane plays the media have screwed the England team again .. when we are 3 up bring him on for 4 minute cameo if need be !!

 

[harpo_72]

We maybe should have won the euros. However a loss on a pen shoot out for a euros final isnt too bad

That loss was down to a bad refereeing decision the Italian defender almost raped Saka .. it’s a red card or allow us to give him studs up tackle in the soft bits .. that was a horrendous night for the rules

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Not even the same manager... The point is Southgate has got to 2 finals , a semi and a quarter final .. that's an outstanding record for one manager , footballs been pretty rubbish to watch but no arguing that his record speaks for itself.

And this is the first major final we’ve got to that isn’t in England.

Southgate could win the Euros then the World Cup and people would still not recognise his success.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

And this is the first major final we’ve got to that isn’t in England.

Southgate could win the Euros then the World Cup and people would still not recognise his success.

It’s hyperbole central isn’t it

I don’t see anyone suggesting anything of such

Just because some ( prob most of football ) see the World Cup as higher than Euros doesn’t mean Southgate wouldn’t be recognised if he won the Euros

But he still has to win it and if he doesn’t then his “success” will be the same as all the other managers since Ramsey

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And this is the first major final we’ve got to that isn’t in England.

Southgate could win the Euros then the World Cup and people would still not recognise his success.

Yes, getting to a final outside of England is massive and yes, a win would be huge for the game, the country and Southgate. The chances of him staying on and winning a world cup though would be slim. Not so much the staying on as I am sure the FA will consider a new contract but a world cup is simply harder to win

 

[PJ87]

Yes, getting to a final outside of England is massive and yes, a win would be huge for the game, the country and Southgate. The chances of him staying on and winning a world cup though would be slim. Not so much the staying on as I am sure the FA will consider a new contract but a world cup is simply harder to win

If you listen to some it comes to sides of the draw. Luck and nothing to do with skill.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If you listen to some it comes to sides of the draw. Luck and nothing to do with skill.

Like any sport though, can only beat what is in front of you

 

[PJ87]

Like any sport though, can only beat what is in front of you

Southgate is a very solid international manager. No good at club level but at international he is perfect..good man management and motivation. Doesn't need to work on coaching the players too much they get world class coaching week in week out he just has to get the best results with what he has..which he has done. Yes I'd rather he played different players and system but no arguing it's worked. His subs have been spot on. Id of gone Toney but he saw Watkins ability against that Dutch system and it worked

Sure I wish he would let the handbrake off go 3-0 up before sitting back but that's got us nowhere since 66

Think we can suffer this football if we finally win something

 

[4LEX]

Bit late to the party so have missed the 'know it alls' proclaiming Southgate as the greatest thing thing since sliced bread....

My take on it all is that I always judge on what I see on the pitch and last night was a big improvement. We actually looked very dangerous in the first half and had a decent side on the backfoot, which is something we've not seen for the last 10 games or so. The second half looked like the same old story as we got pinned back and nothing was being done about it. However Southgate then actually made the sort of call we've all wanted him to do - he took the right players off, put the right players on and we had ago instead of playing for extra time and pens.

Our strength is our squad depth and surprise surprise, we used it well and it made the difference and won the game. Brilliant changes last night and I praise Southgate for that. Just like I give him stick when he clearly gets it wrong. There's no double standards with that outlook at all.

My concerns are where the hell has that peformance been all tournament? Was it down to coaching or simply the players getting more space against a team who attacked with more numbers? Whatever anyone says we've been poor for the majority of the tournament and have had an easy ride to the final, however that counts for nothing if we win on Sunday.

I liked seeing Southgate worked up and passionate last night, it's what we want to see. Ironically I think Sunday is the game we actually need to sit back a bit and hit on the counter. Spain are a young side (in key areas) and while technically superb, are also lightweight and have the potential to bottle it on the big occasion. I really fancy us if we turn up like and play the same way we did in the first half