The Footie Thread

[Mudball]

The Guardian description of last night is a masterful one


Full article here >> https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ow-with-dire-performance-too-bad-to-be-boring

 

[Tashyboy]

Alright am gonna stick my neck out and say most posters picking there teams are wrong and have missed the point It don’t matter who to pick.

THE SYSTEM SOUTHGATE PLAYS IS WRONG.

It don’t matter who you pick because Southgates tactics are atrocious. Look at the Spain v Italy game yesterday. As soon as Italy have a goal kick, and they had quite a few because of the chances Spain created there was a five or six man press. It was difficult for Italy to get out. What do England do. It’s a half hearted wrong press, easy to play against so England end up having to defend deep. To suggest others help Rice to defend for me is so so wrong. What other team does it in England. None, and yet we are talking about the worst manager in the tournament now being able to coach a team to play that way. It’s just not happening.
Look at how England play from a goal kick, they struggle to get out from a press. Why? Because after 3 major tournaments we have not become natural and developed a system. We are going backwards. Again look at the Spanish and Italians and others how quick they can move the ball. It is pedestrian for England.
What the hell was Kane doing that deep when he gave the ball away for the Denmark goal. It is atrocious coaching. He stays on the half way line with two defenders. That leaves 8 Danish players v 9 English and yet we cannot find an open man. Yesterday’s game was not painful because of the players, but because of what they were coached to do. But what were they actually coached to do. It was mind boggling.
Southgate is a coaching dinosaur and as Billyboots says in Spain. He has turned England into a laughing stock of world football.

 

[Hobbit]

There’s been 8 England matches in the last 9 months, prior to the Euros, and Southgate is experimenting in a tournament… really?

Apart from Mainoo, Southgate should have detailed knowledge and experience of all the players in the squad, and Southgate is experimenting in a tournament…really?

TAA should be on the bench as cover for Walker. Foden has had two matches to find his form and should be benched. And if Shaw is fit, get him in instead of Trippier. There’s already a decent keeper & defence. Midfield is a hair’s breadth from being stunning - take the shackles off! If the midfield plays with freedom and energy, there’s no reason for Kane to drop back anywhere near as much as he does.

What I’m seeing is football reminiscent of Southgate managing Middlesbrough. To know who Southgate had as forwards for the Boro but then watching them play was beyond frustrating. It’s not quick nor pretty, it’s robotic and ponderous.

 

[Billysboots]

Alright am gonna stick my neck out and say most posters picking there teams are wrong and have missed the point It don’t matter who to pick.

THE SYSTEM SOUTHGATE PLAYS IS WRONG.

It don’t matter who you pick because Southgates tactics are atrocious. Look at the Spain v Italy game yesterday. As soon as Italy have a goal kick, and they had quite a few because of the chances Spain created there was a five or six man press. It was difficult for Italy to get out. What do England do. It’s a half hearted wrong press, easy to play against so England end up having to defend deep. To suggest others help Rice to defend for me is so so wrong. What other team does it in England. None, and yet we are talking about the worst manager in the tournament now being able to coach a team to play that way. It’s just not happening.
Look at how England play from a goal kick, they struggle to get out from a press. Why? Because after 3 major tournaments we have not become natural and developed a system. We are going backwards. Again look at the Spanish and Italians and others how quick they can move the ball. It is pedestrian for England.
What the hell was Kane doing that deep when he gave the ball away for the Denmark goal. It is atrocious coaching. He stays on the half way line with two defenders. That leaves 8 Danish players v 9 English and yet we cannot find an open man. Yesterday’s game was not painful because of the players, but because of what they were coached to do. But what were they actually coached to do. It was mind boggling.
Southgate is a coaching dinosaur and as Billyboots says in Spain. He has turned England into a laughing stock of world football.

If it’s about the press, Tash, then the first thing Southgate needs to do is drop Kane. He is not a pressing player - doesn’t have the legs for it these days anyway.

Watching England last night reminded me of watching United. I don’t care what the England camp tell us - there is a very clear plan to sit and defend a lead. It happens too often to be a coincidence. Beyond that, there is nothing. No plan, no structure, no tactics.

Not every side has to be a pressing side. But at this level there has to be something on offer. England under Southgate offer absolutely nothing other than frustration.

 

[Bdill93]

If it’s about the press, Tash, then the first thing Southgate needs to do is drop Kane. He is not a pressing player - doesn’t have the legs for it these days anyway.

Watching England last night reminded me of watching United. I don’t care what the England camp tell us - there is a very clear plan to sit and defend a lead. It happens too often to be a coincidence. Beyond that, there is nothing. No plan, no structure, no tactics.

Not every side has to be a pressing side. But at this level there has to be something on offer. England under Southgate offer absolutely nothing other than frustration.

If only we had a striker who scored 19 non penalty goals in the prem this year and the most assists in the league, with great hold up play, pressing, runs in behind and energy to do it for 90 minutes....

Looked better with Watkins than Kane, I've no doubt Toney would look more energetic too.

 

[IanM]

It's more simple than that.

Tell them that running is ok. Why were they all walking?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It's more simple than that.

Tell them that running is ok. Why were they all walking?

Can't argue with that. The difference when watching Spain afterwards was huge.

 

[AmandaJR]

Still fed up and sulking this morning. I know I'm biased (and happy to be honest about that!!) but feel really sorry for Phil. He looks so frustrated and I can't help but think that's more on Gareth than him. He's played under huge pressure for so long this season and never faltered, so can't see that his under performing for England is due to that. Without doubt many of his clever little runs are ignored/missed. Plus he's being asked to play out of position and it's not working. He was the best player in the Prem this past season and looks a shadow of that player under Gareth.

Also with my biased City glasses on there's no way I'd drop Walker for TAA or move him to the left to accommodate TAA. First and foremost we need defenders to defend. Walker (along with everyone else) didn't have his best game last night but he does seem to have stopped having the huge brain farts he used to have. He was the first to struggle with the pitch and turned an ankle - the effect of that can't be underestimated. Looking at clippets on the news this morning you can often see a player gingerly moving to press/tackle and no wonder when the surface was breaking up even before they changed direction.

I wish I could just not watch and not hope and not support the team, but I can't. 58 years of hurt never stopped me dreaming. So it's more and more frustration and disappointment until we have a manager in charge worthy of the role and the players he has at his disposal.

Come on England

 

[Piece]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1803863148384161923

With the talent he’s got to work with & he comes out with this wow!

Unbelievable.

Literally unbelievable.

Next he will be telling us he is still trying to solve the Gerrard - Lampard issue.

 

[PaulMdj]

If only we had a striker who scored 19 non penalty goals in the prem this year and the most assists in the league, with great hold up play, pressing, runs in behind and energy to do it for 90 minutes....

Looked better with Watkins than Kane, I've no doubt Toney would look more energetic too.

Probably because we’ve got a striker with 31 non penalty goals in the squad who scored a total of 44 goals in 45 games.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'll go out on a slight limb here, although I don't think I'm on my own. I'd stick with Foden but play him in the middle. Give him the ball, he makes things happen, he makes things tick. Give him some freedom. We saw some snippets of him last night and they were amongst the only positives. Now, play him out left and he messes up the balance of the team, he is largely ineffective. So, either play him where he is best or put him on the bench and bring him on in the second half. That's that one solved

 

[PaulMdj]

I'll go out on a slight limb here, although I don't think I'm on my own. I'd stick with Foden but play him in the middle. Give him the ball, he makes things happen, he makes things tick. Give him some freedom. We saw some snippets of him last night and they were amongst the only positives. Now, play him out left and he messes up the balance of the team, he is largely ineffective. So, either play him where he is best or put him on the bench and bring him on in the second half. That's that one solved

I’d go all out attack with Kane and Watkins leading the line, Kane is a handful with Watkins playing off him.

Anyone of Bellingham/Foden/Saka etc should be able to feed them

 

[Orikoru]

The TAA into midfield has been a discussion that Liverpool fans have been having for a while - imo he isn’t a midfielder and never will

He has spent 5 years winning everything being one of the best right backs in Europe - one of the worlds best managers plays him at right back , he tinkered a little bit by getting him to drift a little inside at times but he it still a right back

With the squad and the abilities they have there is no reason he can’t be right back for England - rice and stones are both good enough to be a cover for him when he goes forward

Even go to three at the back if they are that worried but it needs a brave manager to sort it

Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Walker or Shaw

Rice
Bellingham

Palmer/Gordon
Foden
Saka

Kane


Most of the players that excel week in week out in their best roles

It would be very fluid with it more as a three at the back - Walker , stones and Guehi

Then you allow Foden to get on the ball in the middle , Bellingham to support and you need to get Kane to stop dropping deep so often and if he can’t , Watkins is the man

This, but I still feel Walker is the better defender over Trent so would keep Walker at right back. Particularly as we go to the knock-outs where you'd expect to see a decent left winger up against him.

Palmer is a top player but I think playing him left gives you exactly the same problem as Foden playing there (left-footed who'll just drift inside) so it's Gordon for me. It looks like a much more balanced line-up though.

 

[Reemul]

Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Walker or Shaw

Rice
Bellingham

Palmer/Gordon
Foden
Saka

Kane


The above works for me really, we could keep Walker at Right Back but Tripper while a fine defender does not offer us what we need there regarding forward movement and balance, oh for a left footed left back, a square peg for a square hole.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I’d go all out attack with Kane and Watkins leading the line, Kane is a handful with Watkins playing off him.

Anyone of Bellingham/Foden/Saka etc should be able to feed them

Now we are talking . That would also allow Kane to drop at times, as he seems insistent on doing, and still provide a positive to the team, slipping through Watkins.

 

[Reemul]

This, but I still feel Walker is the better defender over Trent so would keep Walker at right back. Particularly as we go to the knock-outs where you'd expect to see a decent left winger up against him.

Palmer is a top player but I think playing him left gives you exactly the same problem as Foden playing there (left-footed who'll just drift inside) so it's Gordon for me. It looks like a much more balanced line-up though.

View attachment 53874

Shaw is not fit and I think he is a liability, we really need another left footed left back

 

[AmandaJR]

This, but I still feel Walker is the better defender over Trent so would keep Walker at right back. Particularly as we go to the knock-outs where you'd expect to see a decent left winger up against him.

Palmer is a top player but I think playing him left gives you exactly the same problem as Foden playing there (left-footed who'll just drift inside) so it's Gordon for me. It looks like a much more balanced line-up though.

View attachment 53874

I mean seriously you look at that line-up with those players and wonder why Gareth can't see it? It's simple.

 

[Orikoru]

Still fed up and sulking this morning. I know I'm biased (and happy to be honest about that!!) but feel really sorry for Phil. He looks so frustrated and I can't help but think that's more on Gareth than him. He's played under huge pressure for so long this season and never faltered, so can't see that his under performing for England is due to that. Without doubt many of his clever little runs are ignored/missed. Plus he's being asked to play out of position and it's not working. He was the best player in the Prem this past season and looks a shadow of that player under Gareth.

Also with my biased City glasses on there's no way I'd drop Walker for TAA or move him to the left to accommodate TAA. First and foremost we need defenders to defend. Walker (along with everyone else) didn't have his best game last night but he does seem to have stopped having the huge brain farts he used to have. He was the first to struggle with the pitch and turned an ankle - the effect of that can't be underestimated. Looking at clippets on the news this morning you can often see a player gingerly moving to press/tackle and no wonder when the surface was breaking up even before they changed direction.

I wish I could just not watch and not hope and not support the team, but I can't. 58 years of hurt never stopped me dreaming. So it's more and more frustration and disappointment until we have a manager in charge worthy of the role and the players he has at his disposal.

Come on England

I don't think Foden is out of position - he has played on the left frequently for City. The difference though is that City are playing 4-3-3 when he does, so with nobody playing number 10 he can drift into that space. And Haaland stays up on the defensive line. England playing 4-2-3-1, he drifts inside and finds Bellingham already there, and Kane dropping into the space as well, so the three of them are on each other's toes. That's why I'd bring Bellingham deeper and just let Foden be the number 10.

 

[Orikoru]

Shaw is not fit and I think he is a liability, we really need another left footed left back

Well, there isn't one sadly so keep wishing. If he isn't fit to play the third group game then he shouldn't have been in the squad. It'll have to be Trippier in that case. Why the hell didn't we bring Tyrick Mitchell? Did he just feel he had too many Palace players as it is??

 

[PaulMdj]

I don't think Foden is out of position - he has played on the left frequently for City. The difference though is that City are playing 4-3-3 when he does, so with nobody playing number 10 he can drift into that space. And Haaland stays up on the defensive line. England playing 4-2-3-1, he drifts inside and finds Bellingham already there, and Kane dropping into the space as well, so the three of them are on each other's toes. That's why I'd bring Bellingham deeper and just let Foden be the number 10.

I’m not convinced with Gordon, if we are going to change that slot I’d go with Watkins or even Palmer.

Gordon can be a headless chicken at times and defensively suspect.