The Footie Thread

[Reemul]

Jeez guys. I’ve been watching England long enough to be the world’s biggest pessimist but the negativity on here is next level!

It’s tournament football and it was the first game. Could point to many teams in many tournaments who started slowly and gained momentum. Could point to a lot more who hit the ground running only to see the wheels fall off in the first stage of the knockouts.

I give you Spain 2010 and Argentina 2022. Lost their opener in the World Cup, went on to win the whole thing.

Not saying I expect us to win the Euros. I don’t. But to be moaning about only doing just enough to get three points in the opening game of a major tournament and failing to set the world alight in the process is encroaching on First World problems territory IMHO.

But we do think we can win the Euro's with the squad we have. That's the thing with the negativity. We are all thinking what a waste, we need a better manager. You don't get many opportunities and this really should be one like the last 2.

I hate the term 1st world problems, like this is the football thread and this is the place to talk about these things, my son got mugged at the weekend and my brother's 's wife's mum died on Saturday but everything else is still happoening andw e do know what is an isn't important but in teh football chat it is. If you want 3rd world problems visit those topics.

 

[Orikoru]

No team has ever come flying out of the blocks in a tournament and sustained that right to the final. A narrow win and 3 points in the bag for your first game is ideal. Performance is almost irrelevant at that point, they just need to be hitting form once we get to the quarter finals.

 

[Don Barzini]

I hate the term 1st world problems, like this is the football thread and this is the place to talk about these things, my son got mugged at the weekend and my brother's 's wife's mum died on Saturday but everything else is still happoening andw e do know what is an isn't important but in teh football chat it is. If you want 3rd world problems visit those topics.

Sorry you hate the term, but at no point was I comparing the situation to being mugged or dying. That’s a frankly bizarre way to interpret what I said.

I used the phrase in a football context. ie “We got the three points, why are we moaning? We could have drawn, we could have lost, things could be worse (in terms of England football)” That’s all.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A win is a win but seemed like same old Southgate. Clear we were too deep but nothing done to change that and it was a far tougher last 30 minutes than necessary. Against a more mobile side as opposed to one happy to sling crosses in we will struggle if we are that deep. On the plus side the first 30 minutes with Bellingham as the fulcrum was as good as we've played in a long time. It just needs to be sustained and we need to take pace out of the game where necessary. Three points and on to the next game

 

[AmandaJR]

I'm perplexed as to why Phil doesn't perform for England. Out on the left is not his best position, not by a long shot. He definitely got frustrated. A few times he made a lovely little gliding run into space which would have opened Serbia up but the pass never came. He threw his arms up in frustration. Then he tries too hard and makes mistakes.

If Gareth can't make it work with him and Bellingham then sadly Phil has to miss out. Jude is truly amazing but his level of arrogance is off the scale. Like the big boy who nicks the younger kids ball and takes the mickey as they try to get it back. That's great but it's also about the team and the time he beat the full back three times before finally crossing was all about him showing off and the cross came in once the defence and keeper were set waiting for it. Sometimes for me he lacks discipline and moves way out of position and we lose shape, but I'd take him with that minor flaw over any other player in the squad, probably in the world.

I'm no football tactician but is there a way to play Phil in the 10 just behind Kane? Jude left and a bit deeper...

Guehi was very, very impressive. Thank goodness Maguire got injured!

 

[PaulMdj]

So for 30 Minutes England were in control and then it’s Southgate’s fault a lot of the blame, if any, is on the players, Southgate was just as frustrated.

No wonder we are so disappointed when we lose if this is the reaction after a win!

You have to give other teams and other managers credit, regardless of who we have in the squad we will not control a game for 90 minutes.

As Micah Richards rightly said after the game, “we have the best players, we just don’t have the best team yet”

And calling for Southgate to go is ridiculous, he’s going nowhere till after the tournament.

We won, 3 points, top of the group, roll on thursday!

 

[Orikoru]

I'm perplexed as to why Phil doesn't perform for England. Out on the left is not his best position, not by a long shot. He definitely got frustrated. A few times he made a lovely little gliding run into space which would have opened Serbia up but the pass never came. He threw his arms up in frustration. Then he tries too hard and makes mistakes.

If Gareth can't make it work with him and Bellingham then sadly Phil has to miss out. Jude is truly amazing but his level of arrogance is off the scale. Like the big boy who nicks the younger kids ball and takes the mickey as they try to get it back. That's great but it's also about the team and the time he beat the full back three times before finally crossing was all about him showing off and the cross came in once the defence and keeper were set waiting for it. Sometimes for me he lacks discipline and moves way out of position and we lose shape, but I'd take him with that minor flaw over any other player in the squad, probably in the world.

I'm no football tactician but is there a way to play Phil in the 10 just behind Kane? Jude left and a bit deeper...

Guehi was very, very impressive. Thank goodness Maguire got injured!

A lot of people were asking for a 4-3-3 with Bellingham as the 8 (box-to-box) and Foden as the 10, dropping Trent out of it. But I think that's only going to work against poorer teams (i.e. the next two games), once you're in the knock-outs playing someone decent it'd be too open. It's a shame but it feels like we have a modern-day Gerrard & Lampard conundrum on our hands. It is slightly baffling because Foden has played on the left for City plenty of times and it doesn't seem to hamper him.

Maybe we should swap them and just try Bellingham on the left?? Probably a bit late to experiment, would have been worth trying that in a friendly though. As a right-footer he might be more adept at cutting inside from there.

Maybe we should have stuck with the wing back system? Saka can go over to left wing back since we don't have any left backs fit anyway.

Walker - Stones - Guehi
Trips - Trent - Rice - Jude - Saka
Foden
Kane
​

Same line-up in a different order basically. Again though, bit late for experiments sadly.

 

[road2ruin]

Regardless of the performance it's good to get underway with a win, our previous first games in the Euro's have not been great so the most important thing is that 3 points are on the board. My complaint about last night was Southgate's lack of attempt to try and change things. Obviously easy from my comfy armchair to tell Southgate how much better a manager I am than he however Kane was poor all night so why not give Toney or Watkins a go? Foden, equally anonymous so stick Eze or Gordon on.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

England need to find some way of getting the same level of width on the left that Saka provided


What England had during the first half was Saka providing great width on the right and then TAA pushing ahead of Rice to support Kane and Saka but Foden was also drifting inside to support and there was no one going on the outside

So Southgate will have to make a choice

Shaw coming in will help

He then needs to bring in either Gordon or a left foot Eze on the left

And then he has two spots for 3 players in the middle - Bellingham , TAA and Foden

And all three will give you different options


I think the brave call is

Putting TAA right back and then having Rice , Bellingham and Foden as a three and then Walker left back

 

[clubchamp98]

Regardless of the performance it's good to get underway with a win, our previous first games in the Euro's have not been great so the most important thing is that 3 points are on the board. My complaint about last night was Southgate's lack of attempt to try and change things. Obviously easy from my comfy armchair to tell Southgate how much better a manager I am than he however Kane was poor all night so why not give Toney or Watkins a go? Foden, equally anonymous so stick Eze or Gordon on.

Yes we have a squad for a reason Kane was awful imo but seems to be immune to being subbed.

Foden has so much movement around him for City but that dosnt exist in this England team so he will always struggle imo.
Watkins and Eze or Gordon should have come on after 60 mins just to get us out of our own half.

Think the negative comments come from we have seen this pattern before.

 

[PJ87]

Regardless of the performance it's good to get underway with a win, our previous first games in the Euro's have not been great so the most important thing is that 3 points are on the board. My complaint about last night was Southgate's lack of attempt to try and change things. Obviously easy from my comfy armchair to tell Southgate how much better a manager I am than he however Kane was poor all night so why not give Toney or Watkins a go? Foden, equally anonymous so stick Eze or Gordon on.

This is always the problem with England. Rather than play the best team we try to play the best players

The few times we get it right is through injuries , like when Sinclair went to the world cup and was one of our best players.. because we finally had a left winger, so what if we drop foden? Gordon providing natural pace and width on the left might be the best for the team

 

[Bdill93]

Foden and Trent out for me next game, Gallagher and Gordon in.

Everything else fine unless Shaw becomes fit to start in which case - get him in too.

No real complaints about yesterday, didn't look like conceding but lacked options on the left and Fodens numbers are quite horrific. Be nice to have balls coming in from both wingers.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/graeme-souness-expects-alan-hansen-29367388

 

[RichA]

The problem I saw was that our skilful players are obsessed with relentlessly passing to each other's feet, rather than ever trusting each other to run into a space.
They don't want to be the one that loses the ball. Hence why Kane never got a touch in that first 15 minutes when England had 90% possession.
He needs a ball to run onto if he's sitting at the front. If he doesn't get one he'll drop back looking for the ball and we'll end up with 10 midfielders rather than the 9 we had last night.
Hopefully they'll gel better in the next couple of games and remember it's goals we need, not passing and possession stats.

 

[Asian Dawn]

No team has ever come flying out of the blocks in a tournament and sustained that right to the final. A narrow win and 3 points in the bag for your first game is ideal. Performance is almost irrelevant at that point, they just need to be hitting form once we get to the quarter finals.

Brazil 1970.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

To be fair I thought the defence by and large was very good last night although a more pass and move side like Denmark will definitely ask different questions. The problem with the abundance of midfield and attacking options of who to play and we can all have different opinions on that. I thought maybe resting Kane for the last 15 or 20 minutes would have been a good idea given his long season but don't forget he forced the keeper into a top save

 

[Piece]

It is kind of irrelevant regarding formations and who plays imho. If we haven't got the courage to play through teams, pass to a marked man, one-touch positive play, etc. then we will fail again. I have rarely seen this type of play in the last few years and that is the next level to win tournos we must reach. It's sad, because I do believe we have the players to play that way. We struggled for most of a half to play any football against an average international side. I can accept being under the cosh for 10 or so mins, but not 45 mins.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Brazil 1970.

They played Italy in the final who had breezed through their qualifying group with two 0-0 draws and a 1-0 win.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

The problem I saw was that our skilful players are obsessed with relentlessly passing to each other's feet, rather than ever trusting each other to run into a space.
They don't want to be the one that loses the ball. Hence why Kane never got a touch in that first 15 minutes when England had 90% possession.
He needs a ball to run onto if he's sitting at the front. If he doesn't get one he'll drop back looking for the ball and we'll end up with 10 midfielders rather than the 9 we had last night.
Hopefully they'll gel better in the next couple of games and remember it's goals we need, not passing and possession stats.

Yes. I thought we played it a bit safe, too often choosing the easy pass to retain possession, when there was a harder / riskier pass on that could have opened up an opportunity. Second half, we were really deep and every time it ended up with Pickford, he hoofed it and we lost the ball. If we're going to try and play out from the back, we need to do it properly, and that means taking more risks, breaking their press and making most of the space left behind.

In the end, the result is what matters. It was cagey stuff. We'll need to be a lot braver in the coming games, but it's a platform to build on.

 

[Rlburnside]

Jeez guys. I’ve been watching England long enough to be the world’s biggest pessimist but the negativity on here is next level!

It’s tournament football and it was the first game. Could point to many teams in many tournaments who started slowly and gained momentum. Could point to a lot more who hit the ground running only to see the wheels fall off in the first stage of the knockouts.

I give you Spain 2010 and Argentina 2022. Lost their opener in the World Cup, went on to win the whole thing.

Not saying I expect us to win the Euros. I don’t. But to be moaning about only doing just enough to get three points in the opening game of a major tournament and failing to set the world alight in the process is encroaching on First World problems territory IMHO.

I can understand the negativety, England have the potential to do very well in this tournament.

Southgate has been in charge for a long while now and I can’t see him changing his tactics.

I have a different view to saying it’s only the first game and we got 3 points,look at the way we played in the second half it’s glaringly obvious if we play that way we won’t go far in this competition.