The Footie Thread

[Tashyboy]

Yeah I think pretty much the same, except I have a feeling Gallagher is more likely than Mainoo in the middle there. Bellingham can play as an 8/10, and Foden plays off the left all the time for City so that's not really an issue. Only problem really is that we won't have a natural left back playing to overlap him when he comes inside. I see Gordon as the first sub in a game that's not going well as he will offer us more width.

Predominantly the left side of City has been Doku with even Gvardiol dropping there like in the failed FA cup game. Grealish was a more natural slot in but his game time was limited, hence not picked for the squad. One advantage of Foden playing there is he will do the hard graft and track back. But not just left back, the whole defence is a concern for me.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

He'll be consistent. If Liverpool win 2 trophies in his 1st 2 seasons, but have a poor league position, he will demand the manager is sacked. Even if Liverpool have many injuries, he'll still demand he is sacked.

Unless he thinks the Liverpool players are just tired. Then all will be OK, and he'll claim the manager could still be one of the best the PL has seen

Yes if Slot is poor then he will be under pressure in the same way Rodgers was or Hodgson was

Being 8th in the league is not a position that the club would expect to be and any time a manager has struggled like that they have been fired even more so after spending over £400mil maybe it’s because the standards at Man Utd have dropped over the years now

Rodgers went from 2nd to 6th bombed in the CL groups stages and was fired

Kenny took the club to two finals winning one but was fired after coming 8th

Klopp in his first full season took the club back into the CL

Second season took them to the CL final and stayed in the CL places

3rd season he won the CL and 2nd in the league - all for less than £400mil


ETH team went from 3rd to 8th for Man Utd’s worst Prem league season and worst top flight season since 1989

The team has gone backwards - a Liverpool manager does what ETH did and yes there would be calls for him to go and the club have released managers for seasons like that


If Slot takes the team to 8th then he will go

I’m more than happy for Man Utd to keep ETH

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Predominantly the left side of City has been Doku with even Gvardiol dropping there like in the failed FA cup game. Grealish was a more natural slot in but his game time was limited, hence not picked for the squad. One advantage of Foden playing there is he will do the hard graft and track back. But not just left back, the whole defence is a concern for me.

I'd rather he was slipping balls through defences, gliding past defenders, than tracking back. As we saw against Iceland, breaking defences is tough and we need the quality of Foden up there, particularly in the group stages. I do get your point though, he is not a passenger.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes if Slot is poor then he will be under pressure in the same way Rodgers was or Hodgson was

Being 8th in the league is not a position that the club would expect to be and any time a manager has struggled like that they have been fired even more so after spending over £400mil maybe it’s because the standards at Man Utd have dropped over the years now

Rodgers went from 2nd to 6th bombed in the CL groups stages and was fired

Kenny took the club to two finals winning one but was fired after coming 8th

Klopp in his first full season took the club back into the CL

Second season took them to the CL final and stayed in the CL places

3rd season he won the CL and 2nd in the league - all for less than £400mil


ETH team went from 3rd to 8th for Man Utd’s worst Prem league season and worst top flight season since 1989

The team has gone backwards - a Liverpool manager does what ETH did and yes there would be calls for him to go and the club have released managers for seasons like that


If Slot takes the team to 8th then he will go

I’m more than happy for Man Utd to keep ETH

You are very wedded to league table positions, and Utd finishing 8th.

Sure, we all know it was a really really disappointing season for Man Utd in the league. But, with no real improvement in quality, Utd could just as easily finished 6th, or even pushed Spurs for 5th, if individual games had edged in a slightly different direction. It is all relative to what other clubs do, and there was also a big swing in that mad ending to the game against Chelsea, where victory was turned into defeat. Despite the worst set of injuries Utd have ever had in PL, Utd still finished with more points than they did in the Ole / Rangnick season, a season they finished 6th.

Have Man Utd progressed since the mess the club was in when ETH took over? I think so, massively. Players who are no longer at the club are Jones, Telles, Matic, Pogba, Fred, Mata, Lingard, James, Ronaldo and Cavani. Martial about to follow. Despite there still being poor players at the club, there are a lot more players that I think fill man Utd fans with promise. There certainly seems to be a slow building of a foundation that we didn't have before. Previously, it seemed like the transfer policy was hugely adhoc, no real long term plan at all. Whereas now, under ETH and hopefully the new owners, there seems to be hope that there will actually be a sound strategy.

When ETH took over, I openly admitted I wasn't expecting to see dramatic improvements in the first few seasons. Even after finishing 3rd last season, I wasn't shouting from the rooftops that Utd should surely finish in the top 3 this season. My only desire was to see signs that there was a willingness to build a club back up to a good and respectable position, a journey that could have many ups and downs. For me, the first 2 years is about what I expected if things went well. Probably ahead of schedule, as ETH lead the club to a couple of trophies as well

I'm not sure I'd compare ETH with Hodgson. I seem to remember Hodgson looked absolutely out of his depth from the moment he walked into the club, and was sacked mid way through the season. After 7 games Liverpool were 3rd from bottom, and were they 12th when he was sacked? Yes, if Slot is that useless, I'm sure he'll struggle to stay in the job. But, if he finished 3rd and wins the league cup, then wins the FA cup the next year, I think he'll stay in the job unless Liverpool get relegated. And Slot is taking over a much much healthier club than ETH did

 

[Billysboots]

Is it common sense ? Or have they gone out and spoken to a number of people including Tuchel and been turned down and ended up with little choice but to stick with ETH ?

If he was their man then why not state that weeks ago - i do feel sorry for him in that respect

And it shows how people see him when opposing fans are actually happy he is staying. I’m wanting to see a Rio style slap a new contract in front of him

Said it times, but we can’t keep sacking managers. There has to come a point when someone, somewhere, realises that there are significant problems with the structure at the club. Have been for years. And that it might just be that those problems have had a huge impact elsewhere, including what goes on out on the pitch.

It seems that point may now have been reached. If ten Hag fails under the new regime then I’ll be happy to see him gone. But the time is long overdue that the club at least give a manager a chance.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Said it times, but we can’t keep sacking managers. There has to come a point when someone, somewhere, realises that there are significant problems with the structure at the club. Have been for years. And that it might just be that those problems have had a huge impact elsewhere, including what goes on out on the pitch.

It seems that point may now have been reached. If ten Hag fails under the new regime then I’ll be happy to see him gone. But the time is long overdue that the club at least give a manager a chance.

The issue I think is that he isn’t the new regimes choice , they don’t want him as manager and have searched for someone else - that’s a bad position for ETH to be in

Yes there needs to be stuff sorted above but the manager is still very key and whilst there are issues above there are also issues on the pitch that are under his control

First of all what’s the style the club/team want to play , what’s ETH style of play - does he know - it’s been two years and it’s still hard to see what Man Utd’s style is

If there is a style then get players to fit that style - both of those seem to have been missing for the past 2 years.

Man Utd last two seasons have been so open but it’s through trying to get on the front foot

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You are very wedded to league table positions, and Utd finishing 8th.

Sure, we all know it was a really really disappointing season for Man Utd in the league. But, with no real improvement in quality, Utd could just as easily finished 6th, or even pushed Spurs for 5th, if individual games had edged in a slightly different direction. It is all relative to what other clubs do, and there was also a big swing in that mad ending to the game against Chelsea, where victory was turned into defeat. Despite the worst set of injuries Utd have ever had in PL, Utd still finished with more points than they did in the Ole / Rangnick season, a season they finished 6th.

Have Man Utd progressed since the mess the club was in when ETH took over? I think so, massively. Players who are no longer at the club are Jones, Telles, Matic, Pogba, Fred, Mata, Lingard, James, Ronaldo and Cavani. Martial about to follow. Despite there still being poor players at the club, there are a lot more players that I think fill man Utd fans with promise. There certainly seems to be a slow building of a foundation that we didn't have before. Previously, it seemed like the transfer policy was hugely adhoc, no real long term plan at all. Whereas now, under ETH and hopefully the new owners, there seems to be hope that there will actually be a sound strategy.

When ETH took over, I openly admitted I wasn't expecting to see dramatic improvements in the first few seasons. Even after finishing 3rd last season, I wasn't shouting from the rooftops that Utd should surely finish in the top 3 this season. My only desire was to see signs that there was a willingness to build a club back up to a good and respectable position, a journey that could have many ups and downs. For me, the first 2 years is about what I expected if things went well. Probably ahead of schedule, as ETH lead the club to a couple of trophies as well

I'm not sure I'd compare ETH with Hodgson. I seem to remember Hodgson looked absolutely out of his depth from the moment he walked into the club, and was sacked mid way through the season. After 7 games Liverpool were 3rd from bottom, and were they 12th when he was sacked? Yes, if Slot is that useless, I'm sure he'll struggle to stay in the job. But, if he finished 3rd and wins the league cup, then wins the FA cup the next year, I think he'll stay in the job unless Liverpool get relegated. And Slot is taking over a much much healthier club than ETH did

A league position is the consistent level for a team over a season compared to other teams that season and Man Utd were 8th - ifs , what’s , could have been’s - all irrelevant - it was Man Utd worst season in the league for 25 years

There are many other stats that show that as well - goals conceded , shots allowed on goal - really poor - it’s back to how the the team were in the 80’s - nowhere near the top 3 and that was also replicated in the Champions League - bottom off a group that the club should easily be finishing 2nd at least

Injuries happen for all teams - teams in the past have had horrific injuries and got passed it

And you may not compare it to Hodgson but you can to Rodgers - a decent season followed by regression and Man Utd went backwards significantly last season

Opposing fans are happy for ETH to stay for a reason - if Tuchel did take the job , the team would have at least had a style and i suspect better results moving forward

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A league position is the consistent level for a team over a season compared to other teams that season and Man Utd were 8th - ifs , what’s , could have been’s - all irrelevant - it was Man Utd worst season in the league for 25 years

There are many other stats that show that as well - goals conceded , shots allowed on goal - really poor - it’s back to how the the team were in the 80’s - nowhere near the top 3 and that was also replicated in the Champions League - bottom off a group that the club should easily be finishing 2nd at least

Injuries happen for all teams - teams in the past have had horrific injuries and got passed it

And you may not compare it to Hodgson but you can to Rodgers - a decent season followed by regression and Man Utd went backwards significantly last season

Opposing fans are happy for ETH to stay for a reason - if Tuchel did take the job , the team would have at least had a style and i suspect better results moving forward

So why when Liverpool had their mini slump was it all on injuries and tiredness?

 

[Swango1980]

A league position is the consistent level for a team over a season compared to other teams that season and Man Utd were 8th - ifs , what’s , could have been’s - all irrelevant - it was Man Utd worst season in the league for 25 years

There are many other stats that show that as well - goals conceded , shots allowed on goal - really poor - it’s back to how the the team were in the 80’s - nowhere near the top 3 and that was also replicated in the Champions League - bottom off a group that the club should easily be finishing 2nd at least

Injuries happen for all teams - teams in the past have had horrific injuries and got passed it

And you may not compare it to Hodgson but you can to Rodgers - a decent season followed by regression and Man Utd went backwards significantly last season

Opposing fans are happy for ETH to stay for a reason - if Tuchel did take the job , the team would have at least had a style and i suspect better results moving forward

I read the first line of your comment, and struggled to read the rest, I was literally laughing out loud. Why? Because we'd all be very rich people if we got £1 every time we heard Liverpool fans like yourself tell us how amazing Liverpool were when they had 97 points, despite finishing 2nd

Yes, injuries happen to all teams. But, some teams get few injuries. Some teams get many injuries. Some teams get injuries to key players. Injuries have hugely different impacts on the team. Liverpool fans moaned relentlessly when VVD was injured by Pickford, and the impact that had on your team. When you had 97 and 99 points, what would have happened if Salah had a long term injury those seasons? God forbid injuries to him and one or two other key players like Mane and VVD at the same time? Arsenal haven't had too many injury problems this season, but was it Saliba that got injured last season which apparently had a big negative impact? Newcastle have had many injuries this season, and I accept that is a mitigating factor in them finishing lower in league. Do you, or is Howe now in decline? Dalot has been our only fit defender this season. Others have been out for large parts of the season, and even those that have played never look fully fit, they are just jumping in as and when available, as there are no other options. We've had injuries in midfield and up front, so there is lack of cover most of the time, for pretty much every position. If we ever get have cover for just one position on the field, it is a blessing. Whereas City often have cover for all 11 positions, quality cover.

Yet, you expect Utd to have some sort of style of play? I guess ETH could have just resorted to ultra defensive counter attacking football. Become a bit of an Allardyce, accepting the Utd team would struggle to play his preferred style. Utd would have been more solid, but I expect he'd have been sacked by Xmas for playing negative football. I actually prefer that he tried to play his style, to give players a chance to develop in games, and find out who is capable and who is not. He'll learn much more about his players when he demands it of them on the pitch. He'd have learnt nothing had he just resorted to defensive football.

We know the style ETH wants to play, because we knew how he played at Ajax. We knew the reasons why he'd want to get rid of players like Ronaldo. Unfortunately Utd still have far too many players who are not capable of playing that way, when up against quality, solid opposition. Too many players don't have that quality, fight or still lack confidence after years of poor performances. But, it is easier to identify those players when we can see how they've played through a whole season under that instruction. And we can also see the players who show signs they are up to the challenge.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It’s a long post but it pick some bits

Getting 2nd and 97 points is a great season not sure the relevance , it is a superb season just as getting 99 points was


Yes we lost VVD for a season , we also lost all of our main CBs for a season having to play academy and back up players and still managed to get 4th

It’s been 2 seasons now and £400mil spent - is the team any better than when under OGS , Mourinho, Van Gaal - no it’s got worse

If you are happy with the standard being produced by him then great , more than happy to see him continue as your manager

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It’s a long post but it pick some bits

Getting 2nd and 97 points is a great season not sure the relevance , it is a superb season just as getting 99 points was


Yes we lost VVD for a season , we also lost all of our main CBs for a season having to play academy and back up players and still managed to get 4th

It’s been 2 seasons now and £400mil spent - is the team any better than when under OGS , Mourinho, Van Gaal - no it’s got worse

If you are happy with the standard being produced by him then great , more than happy to see him continue as your manager

Can't help remembering when Fergie came in he was a league cup game from getting the sack as league form had been dire. He survived and seemed to do ok despite not the best league start. By your own words (although no doubt about to be edited to suit) United are in a mess and so it stands to reason it will take time to sort. Given the managerial merry go round at OT it is refreshing to see the board stop and give a manager the time to use the window and get rid of the dead wood and rebuild properly. Even then it will be a work in progress and that is when the new owners will need to stand firm and give him the backing to get the job done

I don't see much changing in terms of PL form and position although top 6 should be achievable and I'd be judging him in a season and a half or at the end of the 2025/26 season

 

[Neilds]

Do we need asterisks next to teams finishing position to indicate when they had a few injuries?
These things happen and are part of football - and always have been so fans should just accept them and say we finished in X place. By trying to justify that the reason was because of injuries is as annoying (and pointless) as saying you got 33 points with 3 blobs

 

[GB72]

Do we need asterisks next to teams finishing position to indicate when they had a few injuries?
These things happen and are part of football - and always have been so fans should just accept them and say we finished in X place. By trying to justify that the reason was because of injuries is as annoying (and pointless) as saying you got 33 points with 3 blobs

Exactly this, football is a squad game and not just a game for first 11s and subs. That is why the player fatigue thing frustrates me. Most teams have 30 odd players available without dipping in to the academy etc. What manager mean is that their best 11 players are getting tired. Well, they can rest them at any time, that is what a squad is for.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Do we need asterisks next to teams finishing position to indicate when they had a few injuries?
These things happen and are part of football - and always have been so fans should just accept them and say we finished in X place. By trying to justify that the reason was because of injuries is as annoying (and pointless) as saying you got 33 points with 3 blobs

Yep spot on

Every team has injuries and it’s up to the manager and club to work their way around those to perform the best they can

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Will be interesting to see your comments in the 2024/25 season when Liverpool have a bad injury run and then what happens if its City, Arsenal or United

 

[Swango1980]

It’s a long post but it pick some bits

Getting 2nd and 97 points is a great season not sure the relevance , it is a superb season just as getting 99 points was


Yes we lost VVD for a season , we also lost all of our main CBs for a season having to play academy and back up players and still managed to get 4th

It’s been 2 seasons now and £400mil spent - is the team any better than when under OGS , Mourinho, Van Gaal - no it’s got worse

If you are happy with the standard being produced by him then great , more than happy to see him continue as your manager

In response:

Getting 2nd and 97 points is a great season not sure the relevance , it is a superb season just as getting 99 points was
So, you are confident you never used arguments such as "If Liverpool had got 97 points in x number of PL seasons, they would have come 1st"????

Yes we lost VVD for a season , we also lost all of our main CBs for a season having to play academy and back up players and still managed to get 4th
Despite your injury problems at the back, I'm pretty sure you had at least 2 fit defenders. TAA and Robertson. Despite TAA being a trash defender, as you rate him, you'll admit that Liverpool had less injury concerns at the back than Man Utd, who have only had Dalot consistently fit? I can't remember your other CB problems, so I'll take your word for it that VVD defensive partner was also long term injured, and several of the back ups. I'd also like to know what injury problems you had in your forward and midfield positions, as Utd have had many issues there as well. However, if you genuinely think Liverpool's injury problems back then are exactly the same as Utd had this season, are you saying Man Utd's squad is just as good as Liverpool's squad back then? If so, and if you can illustrate Liverpool had many injuries all the way through the squad, then maybe there is an argument Man Utd should have finished 4th this year. However, the reality is more that Utd were already in a much weaker, unstable position than Liverpool back then, before we even start talking about injuries.

It’s been 2 seasons now and £400mil spent - is the team any better than when under OGS , Mourinho, Van Gaal - no it’s got worse
In my opinion, we are in a much better position. You may forget the criticism OGS, Mourinho and Van Gaal got. Except back then, Man Utd fans almost universally wanted them gone. You talk about style of football, and Van Gaal had that. It was awful. Mourinho was just a headline maker, and looked depressed being at the club. He had no fight in the end, and it was best he left. OGS, please!?????? There are many areas in the squad that Utd fans will be more pleased about now than they felt back then. There seems to be more of a strategy in the transfer market, albeit it is still nowhere near perfect. The hope is that will improve with the new owners

If you are happy with the standard being produced by him then great , more than happy to see him continue as your manager
I am. Of course, you'd have been shy about making these remarks at the end of last season. But, only too happy to stick the knife in after a poor spell.

We can use whatever metrics we want to try and "prove" ETH is rubbish. But, not being able to play a pleasing style of football, in my opinion, is more down to the players man Utd have. Especially the players available to play. Had Utd finished 3rd and then 4th or 5th, but won no trophies, then I know exactly the arguments opposition fans would start using. ETH isn't a winner, he can't get the club over the line, he is a bridesmaid, etc. But, tragic to these people, they can't throw out those cliches. So, instead, you tell us it is the worst position Utd have ever finished in the PL (I'd take a worst of 8th in over 30 years to be honest). Had luck edged a bit more in Utd way, without any extra quality, at they finished 6th or 7th, would you then have ignored that stat. Or believe ETH deserves an extra chance, simply because it wasn't the lowest postition Utd had finished?

 

[Swango1980]

Do we need asterisks next to teams finishing position to indicate when they had a few injuries?
These things happen and are part of football - and always have been so fans should just accept them and say we finished in X place. By trying to justify that the reason was because of injuries is as annoying (and pointless) as saying you got 33 points with 3 blobs

I accept Man Utd finished in 8th place. At no point am I saying man Utd true position is higher, once I take injuries into account.

What I don't accept is decisions to sack a manager simply based on league position, without looking into any mitigating circumstances. Looking at the bigger picture. Otherwise Liverpool would have sacked Klopp last year half way through the season

 

[Swango1980]

Yep spot on

Every team has injuries and it’s up to the manager and club to work their way around those to perform the best they can

If you take managers out of it, and just focus on squads, who do you think Man Utd are better than? I'm just trying to figure out where you think Utd SHOULD have finished. I'll give you what I think are the main starters (with actual appearances in brackets):

Onana (38)
Dalot (36) - Evans (23) - Maguire (22) - Wan Bissaka (22)
Mainoo (24) - McTomminay (32)
Bruno (35)
Garnacho (36) - Hojlund (30) - Rashford (33)

Three players in that starting 11 that have had lengthy absences, but that is a side made up of our most regular starters.

So, in all seriousness, do you drool over those players. Do you think they are capable of being much higher up the league with a half decent manager? Especially as they've had little cover when they are injured, performing badly themselves?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

In response:

Getting 2nd and 97 points is a great season not sure the relevance , it is a superb season just as getting 99 points was
So, you are confident you never used arguments such as "If Liverpool had got 97 points in x number of PL seasons, they would have come 1st"????

Yes we lost VVD for a season , we also lost all of our main CBs for a season having to play academy and back up players and still managed to get 4th
Despite your injury problems at the back, I'm pretty sure you had at least 2 fit defenders. TAA and Robertson. Despite TAA being a trash defender, as you rate him, you'll admit that Liverpool had less injury concerns at the back than Man Utd, who have only had Dalot consistently fit? I can't remember your other CB problems, so I'll take your word for it that VVD defensive partner was also long term injured, and several of the back ups. I'd also like to know what injury problems you had in your forward and midfield positions, as Utd have had many issues there as well. However, if you genuinely think Liverpool's injury problems back then are exactly the same as Utd had this season, are you saying Man Utd's squad is just as good as Liverpool's squad back then? If so, and if you can illustrate Liverpool had many injuries all the way through the squad, then maybe there is an argument Man Utd should have finished 4th this year. However, the reality is more that Utd were already in a much weaker, unstable position than Liverpool back then, before we even start talking about injuries.

It’s been 2 seasons now and £400mil spent - is the team any better than when under OGS , Mourinho, Van Gaal - no it’s got worse
In my opinion, we are in a much better position. You may forget the criticism OGS, Mourinho and Van Gaal got. Except back then, Man Utd fans almost universally wanted them gone. You talk about style of football, and Van Gaal had that. It was awful. Mourinho was just a headline maker, and looked depressed being at the club. He had no fight in the end, and it was best he left. OGS, please!?????? There are many areas in the squad that Utd fans will be more pleased about now than they felt back then. There seems to be more of a strategy in the transfer market, albeit it is still nowhere near perfect. The hope is that will improve with the new owners

If you are happy with the standard being produced by him then great , more than happy to see him continue as your manager
I am. Of course, you'd have been shy about making these remarks at the end of last season. But, only too happy to stick the knife in after a poor spell.

We can use whatever metrics we want to try and "prove" ETH is rubbish. But, not being able to play a pleasing style of football, in my opinion, is more down to the players man Utd have. Especially the players available to play. Had Utd finished 3rd and then 4th or 5th, but won no trophies, then I know exactly the arguments opposition fans would start using. ETH isn't a winner, he can't get the club over the line, he is a bridesmaid, etc. But, tragic to these people, they can't throw out those cliches. So, instead, you tell us it is the worst position Utd have ever finished in the PL (I'd take a worst of 8th in over 30 years to be honest). Had luck edged a bit more in Utd way, without any extra quality, at they finished 6th or 7th, would you then have ignored that stat. Or believe ETH deserves an extra chance, simply because it wasn't the lowest postition Utd had finished?

again it’s a long read

And ifs buts luck etc don’t change the results

The league is the bread and butter for Man Utd and it was an awful season - every manager in a top club is judged on how they do in the league as a priority- Man Utd failed to qualify for Europe

Previous managers were given the boot for getting better results

You won trophies under Mourinho and Van Gaal , OGS took the team to 2nd and 3rd

Last season Man Utd

Lost 14 games - worst since 1989
60 points - the lowest since 90
58 goals conceded- the worst since the 70’s I believe it is

Everything stacks up to it being one of United worst seasons in a long time

And ETH is still there not because he is their man - but because they got turned down by others - the man should have walked away , they clearly had no respect for him


simple question - why do you think opposition fans are happy that ETH is staying

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Man Utd failed to qualify for Europe

Wrong. They qualified for the Europa League by winning FA cup. I seem to remeber OGS getting them to the final as well. Maybe take the United blinkers off and look at a bigger picture. United now have managerial stability and a chance to rebuild. They have European football as well which may be an ideal opportunity to start testing the next generation and a few fringe player. How do you know others turned them down and what the offers were. Maybe it was the offer and not the opportunity that others didn't want