The Footie Thread

[Lord Tyrion]

Fair point though not to the same degree. What it did show though was, in Saracens case, that in sport the most money spent often wins and surely that stops it being a sport and moves it to a contest of wallet size. Admit I am talking idealistically and painting broad brush strokes but it does fascinate me how some sport is not really a sporting contest. Basically just one of those hypothetical debates I enjoy if it remains general and not partisan

I think in past years someone has done a PL final table with overall spending, transfers, plus wages (not the infamous net spend), and the order of the whole table is largely related to spending. There will be the odd anomaly but actually far fewer than you might expect.

For me, that's why I am not overly bothered when a rich owner comes in and spends big. Yes, I know the consequences if it goes wrong, but otherwise the status quo remains for ever more and that is plain dull as well as being a closed shop of just a handful of clubs.

I'd love the idea of a salary cap, that would equalise out the inequalities, but there is way too much money at stake for the PL to agree to that. Sadly.

 

[Neilds]

Reading some of these posts makes we wonder how blinkered some fans towards their clubs and how they are run. Most clubs are sailing close to wind financially, deferred transfer fees, images rights to players, buying players then loaning them back to the same team, etc are all within the law (just) but are they really in the spirit of the game? All the clubs know the tricks to 'keep within the rules' but what happens when the owners decide they have had enough, or the TV companies decide to reduce payments?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Reading some of these posts makes we wonder how blinkered some fans towards their clubs and how they are run. Most clubs are sailing close to wind financially, deferred transfer fees, images rights to players, buying players then loaning them back to the same team, etc are all within the law (just) but are they really in the spirit of the game? All the clubs know the tricks to 'keep within the rules' but what happens when the owners decide they have had enough, or the TV companies decide to reduce payments?

'Spirit of the game' . This is football we are talking about. Any concept of fair play and spirit disappeared long ago, definitely since the inception of the PL (go back to Argentina in 66, the Leeds team of the 70's for earlier examples). Leagues across the world now are businesses that have a sports team at the front, no longer a team that happens to do a bit of business.

In terms of owners, there seem to be a never ending stream of wannabees, there is money in football. As long as the tv companies keep paying, and remember the PL is worldwide now so not just reliant on Sky, then people will keep buying in.

 

[GB72]

'Spirit of the game' . This is football we are talking about. Any concept of fair play and spirit disappeared long ago, definitely since the inception of the PL (go back to Argentina in 66, the Leeds team of the 70's for earlier examples). Leagues across the world now are businesses that have a sports team at the front, no longer a team that happens to do a bit of business.

In terms of owners, there seem to be a never ending stream of wannabees, there is money in football. As long as the tv companies keep paying, and remember the PL is worldwide now so not just reliant on Sky, then people will keep buying in.

This is it with a system geared to assist the most afluent clubs in reaching Europe to play the other afluent clubs. The only way to do something is to level the playing field on spending, not to ensure that clubs can afford what they spend but to ensure clubs all spend the same. That would return parity but it can never happen. Sadly a number of fans only care that their club is winning without looking at the bigger picture and, if you are not winning, it is because you are not spending enough. Few want balanced, well run clubs in a competitive league with clubs developing talent, no they just want to win.

 

[srixon 1]

Who do you think Ronaldo, or Messi, or any other international striker scored their goals against?

Messi scored a hat trick yesterday in a friendly against Curaçao. Curaçao is an island in the Caribbean so not exactly a massive footballing nation. Goals in friendlies just shouldn’t count in stats as far as I am concerned.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

This is it with a system geared to assist the most afluent clubs in reaching Europe to play the other afluent clubs. The only way to do something is to level the playing field on spending, not to ensure that clubs can afford what they spend but to ensure clubs all spend the same. That would return parity but it can never happen. Sadly a number of fans only care that their club is winning without looking at the bigger picture and, if you are not winning, it is because you are not spending enough. Few want balanced, well run clubs in a competitive league with clubs developing talent, no they just want to win.

Whilst I see your point of view, even if there were a Europe wide wage cap brought in nothing would change. For a start, many European clubs pay the players wages an agreed fee that is nett of tax etc, whereas the British clubs pay gross. Also look at Barca, currently fighting bribery claims to the referees that go back years. Juventus had their bribery issue years back and are again fighting “accounting” issues.
Sadly the European big clubs don’t want fair play or the English clubs with their tv money they are all jealous of.
The horse has bolted, and there isn’t a fan of any club that doesn’t want success and trophies, regardless of costs and probably owners.

 

[GB72]

Whilst I see your point of view, even if there were a Europe wide wage cap brought in nothing would change. For a start, many European clubs pay the players wages an agreed fee that is nett of tax etc, whereas the British clubs pay gross. Also look at Barca, currently fighting bribery claims to the referees that go back years. Juventus had their bribery issue years back and are again fighting “accounting” issues.
Sadly the European big clubs don’t want fair play or the English clubs with their tv money they are all jealous of.
The horse has bolted, and there isn’t a fan of any club that doesn’t want success and trophies, regardless of costs and probably owners.

Out of interest, would you rather see the 'big clubs' with the massive cheque books disappear off and do their own thing and have a league that it more financially, and so sportingly, more equal and competitive bearing in mind that it would also mean a reduction in revenue.

 

[Orikoru]

Messi scored a hat trick yesterday in a friendly against Curaçao. Curaçao is an island in the Caribbean so not exactly a massive footballing nation. Goals in friendlies just shouldn’t count in stats as far as I am concerned.

I've got no problem with them counting, since they count for everyone, and every international side has plenty of games against minnows. I just don't know why anyone uses it as a tool to knock down someone's record when it's true for absolutely every player. Show me an international record holder who's only scored against top teams. I can wait.

 

[GB72]

I've got no problem with them counting, since they count for everyone, and every international side has plenty of games against minnows. I just don't know why anyone uses it as a tool to knock down someone's record when it's true for absolutely every player. Show me an international record holder who's only scored against top teams. I can wait.

I would add to that there have been dozens of strikers who have played for England over the years against largely similar opposition but none of them have achieved what Kane did

 

[Neilds]

I've got no problem with them counting, since they count for everyone, and every international side has plenty of games against minnows. I just don't know why anyone uses it as a tool to knock down someone's record when it's true for absolutely every player. Show me an international record holder who's only scored against top teams. I can wait.

I was going to say John Barnes but he managed to score a couple more than the one against Brazil

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Out of interest, would you rather see the 'big clubs' with the massive cheque books disappear off and do their own thing and have a league that it more financially, and so sportingly, more equal and competitive bearing in mind that it would also mean a reduction in revenue.

Personally, I'd be okay with that. Go off, have your European Super League, , I'd be happy with what's left.

 

[fundy]

Personally, I'd be okay with that. Go off, have your European Super League, , I'd be happy with what's left.

its not going to be either or though is it, the super league will replace the champions league for the top clubs not the premier league surely if thy get their way

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Personally, I'd be okay with that. Go off, have your European Super League, , I'd be happy with what's left.

The repercussions of those “big clubs” going off to another league would be very dramatic for all the other clubs

The Premier League gets those big Telly deals on the back of the “big clubs” unfortunately- they go the deals would be dramatically reduced, along with that go the top players

It would be just like the old PDC Vs BDO darts. Everything followed the money

But it’s also worth noting that the clubs that have used big cheque books recently aren’t strictly in that known list of big clubs

Villa , West Ham , Wolves , Leeds , Everton have spent some big cheques

but the super league wasn’t designed to replace the Prem - it was about replacing the UEFA comps

 

[Lord Tyrion]

its not going to be either or though is it, the super league will replace the champions league for the top clubs not the premier league surely if thy get their way

Probably right although a fully fledged league is perhaps the ultimate goal of some owners. The CL is virtually a league anyway, although a SL just guarantees more money for the big boy I suppose. For me, had the SL come off, I'd have kicked the teams out of the PL. It's an either or situation.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The repercussions of those “big clubs” going off to another league would be very dramatic for all the other clubs

The Premier League gets those big Telly deals on the back of the “big clubs” unfortunately- they go the deals would be dramatically reduced, along with that go the top players

It would be just like the old PDC Vs BDO darts. Everything followed the money

But it’s also worth noting that the clubs that have used big cheque books recently aren’t strictly in that known list of big clubs

Villa , West Ham , Wolves , Leeds , Everton have spent some big cheques

but the super league wasn’t designed to replace the Prem - it was about replacing the UEFA comps

It would be dramatic but then teams, or owners, would simply have to reset.

The claim is that it wasn't going to replace the PL but I'm not sure the PL believed that, nor did most people.

 

[fundy]

Probably right although a fully fledged league is perhaps the ultimate goal of some owners. The CL is virtually a league anyway, although a SL just guarantees more money for the big boy I suppose. For me, had the SL come off, I'd have kicked the teams out of the PL. It's an either or situation.

the most likely current progression for me is a super league in Europe (excluding the English clubs) as a competitor to the EPL as the continental clubs try and find a way to close the gap on the English clubs financially because of the TV deals

Something like Barca, Real Madrid, Athletico Madrid, Juve, Inter, AC Milan, Napoli, PSG, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Benefica, Porto, Ajax and a few more that sits above the domestic leagues would be a strong sell to the tv companies for sure

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Out of interest, would you rather see the 'big clubs' with the massive cheque books disappear off and do their own thing and have a league that it more financially, and so sportingly, more equal and competitive bearing in mind that it would also mean a reduction in revenue.

Probably not, no as the "big" clubs also provide greater income to the smaller teams when playing them at their ground.
I'm not Sky's biggest fan, but the way they have put their money into the PL and marketed it has been just beyond anything else has done. They have boosted the PL and made the rest of Europe take note ( and complain). If UEFA really wanted FFP, they would have dealt with the Spanish and Italian clubs ages ago, but it was brought in to mainly stop the PL. And the foriegn money knows it as wants a piece of it.
As I said, I don't believe any fan doesn't want success and trophies if it meant "money" bringing it to them. Every fan wants success, no matter who they support.

 

[PJ87]

I've got no problem with them counting, since they count for everyone, and every international side has plenty of games against minnows. I just don't know why anyone uses it as a tool to knock down someone's record when it's true for absolutely every player. Show me an international record holder who's only scored against top teams. I can wait.

Andy Selva, san Marino record scorer

8 goals

All against teams ranked above them

One was a winner lol

 

[Pin-seeker]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/21870544/who-is-in-the-premier-league-hall-of-fame/

 

[Bdill93]

The repercussions of those “big clubs” going off to another league would be very dramatic for all the other clubs

The Premier League gets those big Telly deals on the back of the “big clubs” unfortunately- they go the deals would be dramatically reduced, along with that go the top players

It would be just like the old PDC Vs BDO darts. Everything followed the money

But it’s also worth noting that the clubs that have used big cheque books recently aren’t strictly in that known list of big clubs

Villa , West Ham , Wolves , Leeds , Everton have spent some big cheques

but the super league wasn’t designed to replace the Prem - it was about replacing the UEFA comps

We actually have spent some serious money since coming up but quite like Forest, we came up with a thin squad and lots of loaned players, we splashed big in year 1 to build a squad of our own players.

Since then we've added key pieces but most of the big spends were using the Grealish money. (Buendia, Bailey, Ings)

Think this summer we will see another bigger spend again!