The Footie Thread

[PJ87]

Still not sure where I stand on this. Some fans say that Levy doesn't spend the money, in my opinion he has spent more in the last few years, but a lot of these players have turned out to be crap. So we need to get rid of the board and get some big-spending tycoon involved, but the same fans always criticise Chelsea and City for buying trophies so wouldn't we just be hypocrites? It makes no sense to me. With the relative amount we spend we're not expecting to win the league but we could have expected a couple of cups in the last decade.

You had how many windows under poch where they invested the total of bugger all?

I've said a few times you need to spend least 50 million a season just to stand still, because everyone invests and players age you can't keep a squad together without issues

Arsenal have a great team and added to it in January with trossard

Spurs , like west ham, go through cycles of not investing and then just throwing money at the issue rather than constant drip flow of recruitment to keep good football going

Sacking an actual winning manager the week before the league cup final was just prime levy .. didn't want to pay his bonus

 

[fundy]

Still not sure where I stand on this. Some fans say that Levy doesn't spend the money, in my opinion he has spent more in the last few years, but a lot of these players have turned out to be crap. So we need to get rid of the board and get some big-spending tycoon involved, but the same fans always criticise Chelsea and City for buying trophies so wouldn't we just be hypocrites? It makes no sense to me. With the relative amount we spend we're not expecting to win the league but we could have expected a couple of cups in the last decade.

Is the issue not more a case of that there is no real long term recruitment plan since the Pochettino days (and then his hands were tied as Levy invested in the facilities)? If there is it doesnt feel very apparent looking in, just a case of supporting the short term managers needs

For eg you bought 2 young full/wing backs this summer (for decent money) neither of which Conte wanted despite being wedded to a system that uses wing backs, so you then bought 2 more wing backs. In the process you maligned several existing members of the squad and had to send a few out on loan/sell for nothing. And thats just wing back. Now Conte has gone how many full/wing backs do Spurs actually have and how many of them will the next manager want or will he want his own. Emerson, Porro, Perisic, Reguillon, Sessegnon, Udogie, have i missed any?

You spent 60m on a back up striker who was never going to get a game unless Kane was injured and was clearly never going to be a happy squad member/bench warmer

You brought in a handful of defensive midfielders, yet no creative ball playing midfielders/wide attackers

Surely the right option is to have a longer term plan/approach with a director of football and recruitment style that fit this then a manager who is hired to work within those parameters so that if its another 18 mth appointment you dont get left with a very unbalanced squad and a group of players that dont fit the new managers style.

That said clearing the squad down of the players the new manager doesnt want is not an overnight process and a painful one if Arsenals attempts the last 5 years are anything to go by!

That or let Levy keep focussing on having Lada Gaga concerts at the toilet bowl

 

[Orikoru]

You had how many windows under poch where they invested the total of bugger all?

I've said a few times you need to spend least 50 million a season just to stand still, because everyone invests and players age you can't keep a squad together without issues

Arsenal have a great team and added to it in January with trossard

Spurs , like west ham, go through cycles of not investing and then just throwing money at the issue rather than constant drip flow of recruitment to keep good football going

Sacking an actual winning manager the week before the league cup final was just prime levy .. didn't want to pay his bonus

Agreed but we have spent money in the last four years, that was my point. You don't get Jose and Conte in and not spend money. It was just spent on the wrong players that haven't worked. Probably Levy's biggest fear when he wasn't spending it before.
55 mil on Richarlison? 25 on Bissouma? 20-odd on Royal? 20-odd on Gil? 55 on Lo Celso! 25 odd on Reguilon! 55 Ndombele! 25+ Bergwijn! All of them useless duffers!

 

[PJ87]

Agreed but we have spent money in the last four years, that was my point. You don't get Jose and Conte in and not spend money. It was just spent on the wrong players that haven't worked. Probably Levy's biggest fear when he wasn't spending it before.
55 mil on Richarlison? 25 on Bissouma? 20-odd on Royal? 20-odd on Gil? 55 on Lo Celso! 25 odd on Reguilon! 55 Ndombele! 25+ Bergwijn! All of them useless duffers!

How many picked by the managers themselves?

Conte was spot on with his assessment of the club, I guess he had to go for it but nothing he said wasn't true , the fans deserve better

 

[Lord Tyrion]

How many picked by the managers themselves?

Conte was spot on with his assessment of the club, I guess he had to go for it but nothing he said wasn't true , the fans deserve better

Do they though, do they really?

 

[PJ87]

Do they though, do they really?

Lol I'm biased a bit .. but as a fan base they pay their money , have players like Kane and son in and around the team and have to put up with the rubbish

Poch said he would leave if he won the champs league as that was pinnacle .. not I'll maybe get some investment and challenge for the league

Nope he knew the club couldn't go higher under those owners

 

[Orikoru]

Do they though, do they really?

Most of them don't, because they're hypocrites as I said above.

 

[GB72]

Lol I'm biased a bit .. but as a fan base they pay their money , have players like Kane and son in and around the team and have to put up with the rubbish

Poch said he would leave if he won the champs league as that was pinnacle .. not I'll maybe get some investment and challenge for the league

Nope he knew the club couldn't go higher under those owners

Thing is can anyone get enough investement and challenge for the league. As I say on most of my posts, I am not a massive football fan, maybe a casual follower and so this may be naive or over simplistic or just downright insulting, but, to me, unless you are selling out to the middle east or few other individuals, can you really win at the spending game. Now that £100 million is the starting point for the biggest names and that will only go higher, the multi billionaires have won, the prices are now so high that only maybe half a dozen clubs can afford them. Now you are not even guaranteeing quality at the £20-£40 million pound bracket. Arsenal appear to be a club that have spent smaller amounts well over the last few years, Liverpool did that or were very careful on who their big buys were, Leicester got lucky as we all know but also found some players that would go on to be worth tens of millions of pounds for peanuts (Kante, Mahrez). Meanwhile, managers have a get of jail free card. The board to do not spend, any failure is down to that and not the manager and the fans happily get behind that and demand more money or the board out. Surely now the spending should be on the managers with the tactical knowledge to counteract these bigger teams and on scouting networks of can find the Mahrez and Kante in the lower leagues, swoop in for them whilst the cash rich clubs are looking purely for the ready made, proven players.

It is almost a choice now of selling out or accepting mediocrity. Can any club outside of a few very rich ones really dream of anything else beyond maybe a Caribao Cup or an FA Cup and even then only if a few of the bigger names get knocked out playing the B team in earlier rounds.

 

[PJ87]

Thing is can anyone get enough investement and challenge for the league. As I say on most of my posts, I am not a massive football fan, maybe a casual follower and so this may be naive or over simplistic or just downright insulting, but, to me, unless you are selling out to the middle east or few other individuals, can you really win at the spending game. Now that £100 million is the starting point for the biggest names and that will only go higher, the multi billionaires have won, the prices are now so high that only maybe half a dozen clubs can afford them. Now you are not even guaranteeing quality at the £20-£40 million pound bracket. Arsenal appear to be a club that have spent smaller amounts well over the last few years, Liverpool did that or were very careful on who their big buys were, Leicester got lucky as we all know but also found some players that would go on to be worth tens of millions of pounds for peanuts (Kante, Mahrez). Meanwhile, managers have a get of jail free card. The board to do not spend, any failure is down to that and not the manager and the fans happily get behind that and demand more money or the board out. Surely now the spending should be on the managers with the tactical knowledge to counteract these bigger teams and on scouting networks of can find the Mahrez and Kante in the lower leagues, swoop in for them whilst the cash rich clubs are looking purely for the ready made, proven players.

It is almost a choice now of selling out or accepting mediocrity. Can any club outside of a few very rich ones really dream of anything else beyond maybe a Caribao Cup or an FA Cup and even then only if a few of the bigger names get knocked out playing the B team in earlier rounds.

Teams can compete if they don't turn there nose up at things

I mean spurs weren't at all interested in the Europa conference, still a trophy

League cup teams never take seriously .. still a route into Europa and a trophy

Even the fa cup takes a back burner ATM

 

[Orikoru]

Teams can compete if they don't turn there nose up at things

I mean spurs weren't at all interested in the Europa conference, still a trophy

League cup teams never take seriously .. still a route into Europa and a trophy

Even the fa cup takes a back burner ATM

That is part of our problem. The fans want a trophy to stop that being other fans' ammunition against us, but the board only cares about finishing top four so that the money keeps rolling in. I'm certain the managers are told explicitly to rest players in winnable cup ties. We're practically resting players and half-arsing performances in the Champion's League in order to qualify for next year's Champion's League, it's laughable.

 

[GB72]

Teams can compete if they don't turn there nose up at things

I mean spurs weren't at all interested in the Europa conference, still a trophy

League cup teams never take seriously .. still a route into Europa and a trophy

Even the fa cup takes a back burner ATM

This I agree with to a certain extent. It is like turning down £100 because you are definitely going to win the lottery at the weekend.

Only doubts I have are:

League Cup - A bit reliant on the big clubs getting caught when playing the B team but still a decent chance. Same for the FA Cup.

Europe is frustrating, every year teams play to qualify and then complain that they cannot concetrate on the league when they do and appear uninterested.

They need to stop dropping Champions League Teams into the Europa League, you should get one chance and a competition and once out, that is it.

 

[PJ87]

That is part of our problem. The fans want a trophy to stop that being other fans' ammunition against us, but the board only cares about finishing top four so that the money keeps rolling in. I'm certain the managers are told explicitly to rest players in winnable cup ties. We're practically resting players and half-arsing performances in the Champion's League in order to qualify for next year's Champion's League, it's laughable.

This I agree with to a certain extent. It is like turning down £100 because you are definitely going to win the lottery at the weekend.

Only doubts I have are:

League Cup - A bit reliant on the big clubs getting caught when playing the B team but still a decent chance. Same for the FA Cup.

Europe is frustrating, every year teams play to qualify and then complain that they cannot concetrate on the league when they do and appear uninterested.

They need to stop dropping Champions League Teams into the Europa League, you should get one chance and a competition and once out, that is it.

fully agree @GB72 they should not drop down to the next cup and so on, just one chance at getting through

my club (west ham) rested players for europa last season and we did ok in it.

we are suffering this year due to massive squad overhaul (bad investment etc) takes time to gel. little and often much better

however i fully believe we will stay up. If we stay up and win the conference to me thats a successful season. We also would then have qualified 3 seasons in a row for European football , isnt that what you want? whilst winning one (if we did)

 

[GB72]

fully agree @GB72 they should not drop down to the next cup and so on, just one chance at getting through

my club (west ham) rested players for europa last season and we did ok in it.

we are suffering this year due to massive squad overhaul (bad investment etc) takes time to gel. little and often much better

however i fully believe we will stay up. If we stay up and win the conference to me thats a successful season. We also would then have qualified 3 seasons in a row for European football , isnt that what you want? whilst winning one (if we did)

This is it, winning something should be so much more important. With the money already at City and Chelsea, the money already at United and maybe more if the Quataris take over, and the money at Newcastle plus the like of Liverpool and Arsenal, the top 4 is going to be a closed shop soon as they will keep the player cost and wage inflation going (the big spenders not Liverpool and Arsenal) and the top 6 may be open to a team who has a miracle season so the smaller cups are going to be it for most teams.

Even typing that I just hate how it sounds. Give me the salary caps and no transfer fees in rugby any day. Yes we have massive money issues but at least the league stays competitive.

 

[PJ87]

This is it, winning something should be so much more important. With the money already at City and Chelsea, the money already at United and maybe more if the Quataris take over, and the money at Newcastle plus the like of Liverpool and Arsenal, the top 4 is going to be a closed shop soon as they will keep the player cost and wage inflation going (the big spenders not Liverpool and Arsenal) and the top 6 may be open to a team who has a miracle season so the smaller cups are going to be it for most teams.

Even typing that I just hate how it sounds. Give me the salary caps and no transfer fees in rugby any day. Yes we have massive money issues but at least the league stays competitive.

Or even the very confusing but works fantastic system of the NFL with drafts and such so everyone gets equal chance at the best players

 

[GB72]

Or even the very confusing but works fantastic system of the NFL with drafts and such so everyone gets equal chance at the best players

That one is even better in that all of the team merch is produced by one company and the teams get an even share of the profits so it does not matter if one team is selling millions of shirts to far east fans, they all get the same.

 

[Bdill93]

That one is even better in that all of the team merch is produced by one company and the teams get an even share of the profits so it does not matter if one team is selling millions of shirts to far east fans, they all get the same.

Except the Dallas Cowboys....

 

[GB72]

Except the Dallas Cowboys....

Is that true, I never knew that.

 

[PJ87]

That one is even better in that all of the team merch is produced by one company and the teams get an even share of the profits so it does not matter if one team is selling millions of shirts to far east fans, they all get the same.

Massive irony that Americans see socialism as a bad word yet all there major sports are based on it! Lol

But yes it's a fair system

Thing is even with all the imperfections of football many will never not watch

More seem to follow lower leagues now as a second team as it's the old way of football and good to follow

Lots of spurs and west ham fans go over Dagenham and Redbridge

 

[GB72]

Massive irony that Americans see socialism as a bad word yet all there major sports are based on it! Lol

But yes it's a fair system

Thing is even with all the imperfections of football many will never not watch

More seem to follow lower leagues now as a second team as it's the old way of football and good to follow

Lots of spurs and west ham fans go over Dagenham and Redbridge

I have to say that the idea of supporting a team in a lower league that has to spend within its means and develop players and who play on a more even playing surface (metaphorically not literally) does appeal. It just seems with each new club sale to a billionaire that it all becomes more of a farce, that sport actually has so little to do with it now. Not sure I would mind all the big boys disappearing off to a European Super League and leave the rest in a more even competition (reminding again that I have no great knowledge of football). I know the fans of those clubs do not want it but what about the fans of the other clubs, would they rather stand a chance in a league without the clubs with multi billionaire owners

 

[babylonsinger]

The American franchise and draft model would simply not work here where there is a whole network of clubs rather than simply one league. Players are scouted and ranked from early high school and colleges recruit them based on this. Once at college the NFL teams and analysts scout them for when they are eligible for the draft. 99% of players come through this system - compare that to PL clubs who need scouting networks all over the world. The draft method can encourage poor performance to obtain more valuable picks also.

Not sure I agree with a salary cap - rugby union certainly is a good example of it with the Wasps and Worcester situations and also Saracens cheating it to achieve some of their success. Salary caps seem to work best where the player pool is largely restricted such as US sports or NRL/Super League (even in those there were high profile instances of cheating such as Melbourne Storm)