The Footie Thread

[clubchamp98]

Believe it was to stop time wasting and then they also said about getting the crowds too wound up

There was the issue with Forlan who spent about 5 mins putting his shirt back on and the game started again with him running around with it half on

These days it adds no more time on and think it’s a stupid rule


and that’s why they have Carragher and Neville there commentating but it’s awful and they can’t stop their bias

VAR wastes more time than that.
just make them go to the halfway line to put their shirt on and only let them on after play restarts like if the physios have treated them For an injury.
its an entertainment game .
stupid rule .

 

[Tashyboy]

When we lived in Rochdale, me dad would take us to City games whenever he could. With the occasional Rochdale game chucked in. But it was always easier to climb over a fence at 6 yr old and watch stock cars and speedway for free.
Then we emigrated to Mansfield and I got a season ticket for about 4 years To watch the mighty Stags. But still my dad would occasionally take us to Maine rd. where we would stand in the Kippax for 2 hours eating proper hotdogs from a vendor, paying a quid so a kid would look after yer car ( as against putting its windows through). When I could drive I made the effort to drive to Maine rd and then the Etihad. But taking a family of 4/5 is not cheap and was a special day out.
A season ticket followed for 6 years but VAR and other things about football caused me to question my love of the game not City. COVID stopped football and it came at the perfect time for me. I will never have another season ticket. I still go occasionally like next week. But I have other things going off in my life. Do I miss Live games, of course but match day fans are now way down the list of priorities to a club and my priorities now put football way down that list with City just a bit higher.
Re match day fans and armchair fans I am not bothered who is who, but I do know that i have had better conversations with fans who have gone to games than those that never.

 

[Bdill93]

Never really understood the whole 'I'm a better fan than you' thing. OK, talking from a rugby point of view but I have been a club season ticket holder going every week and I have, for various reasons, gone years without one. My passion for the Tigers never changed in that period but the demands on my time did (plus going out first thing in the morning everty Saturday, getting back having had too many beers early Sunday morning and spending the Sunday seeing off the hangover does not make for a great marriage). Now I have the time again, I may well go back to having a season ticket next season but that will not make me more of a fan than I am today. In fact, I do not look any differently at any Tigers fan. I really do not care if you were watching a match sat on the shale mound in the 1980s or started following Tigers after the league win last year, if you are a Tigers fan then that is what we have in common and everyone's support for the club should be celebrated.

I have massive respect for everyone in the ground, ticket money is still the lifeblood of rugby and getting bums on seats if the most important thing at club level but it does not make me more or less of a fan, just a person with more or less time or money to spend watching live sport.

Not a fan of 'gatekeeping' in any area but is does seem prevalent in football that you are not a fan or irrelevant if you can fill a set of unspecified criteria and keep proving your self to be that bit more of a fan than the next person.

Its a good subject but one that will never have agreement on.

Over the last 6 years I've spent thousands of pounds and hundreds of hours following the Villa, I was there in the dark days of a 1-1 draw away at Ipswich but I've also been there for the good times like when we beat United away last season for the first time since the 90's.

Ill add - location is the biggest excuse for non-attendance I hear but it isn't one. One of our group comes up every week from London for the games on the train - and he's an Arsenal fan . They guy that sits next to me drives down from Carlisle every game.

I never discredit supporters that do not do what I do, they have their views and I respect them, my dad is one of these - not been for years but he still knows football!

Just don't tell me you're a better/bigger Villa fan than me, you're not - especially those that went missing when we went down! Where were they when the club needed them?

 

[DPapas1982]

I would normally agree with you but he was spot yesterday towards Neville

They both laughed and grinned at him when he said he thought Liverpool would win comfortably and then afterwards Neville was a bit of joke , desperate not to give any credit at all to Liverpool and according to him they didn’t play well and it was only 7 nil because Utd were poor.

It’s why imo Neville , Carragher shouldn’t be anywhere near the Liverpool/Man Utd matches - they are incapable of providing any sort of balance. Bring in neutrals for the game.

I agree about keeping em away from the derby. It smacked of Phil Thompson.

Tbf, they were always gonna give each other needle result regardless. And whilst I think Neville was out of line, Souness rant as such would have happened either way. In his head, either he's always right or you're always wrong.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Off topic a bit.
what is the official reason you get a yellow for taking your shirt off?

I believe it is a FIFA edict. Something about certain countries not approving of it, naked chests . It's a worldwide game so the rule covers all FIFA countries..........

Whether it is a good rule or not, I think it's daft, I think it is even dafter to keep doing it and getting a card for your troubles. Plenty of ways to celebrate, I don't get the shirt off one.

 

[GB72]

Its a good subject but one that will never have agreement on.

Over the last 6 years I've spent thousands of pounds and hundreds of hours following the Villa, I was there in the dark days of a 1-1 draw away at Ipswich but I've also been there for the good times like when we beat United away last season for the first time since the 90's.

Ill add - location is the biggest excuse for non-attendance I hear but it isn't one. One of our group comes up every week from London for the games on the train - and he's an Arsenal fan . They guy that sits next to me drives down from Carlisle every game.

I never discredit supporters that do not do what I do, they have their views and I respect them, my dad is one of these - not been for years but he still knows football!

Just don't tell me you're a better/bigger Villa fan than me, you're not - especially those that went missing when we went down! Where were they when the club needed them?

I agree with pretty much all of this. Really not sure why some people put some much emphasis on being a bigger or better fan than the next person. You clearly have a deep running passion for the club but so may Joe Bloggs but people would want to put him down because he watches Villa from his sofa and is not in the stands every week. That is what I cannot understand you would both, to my mind, be dyed in the wool Villa fans but there are some people who would want ot belittle Joe Bloggs for supporting from home.

I have followed the Tigers through the glory days and through the near relegation years and nothing will change my support of the club. The fact that I have done some of that from the terraces (we still have those) and part of it from the comfort of my sofa makes no difference whatsoever and does not make me a better or worse supporter of the club. I love watching England rugby but would not set foot in Twickenham these days, the experience is just awful, but that should not make me less of a supporter.

 

[clubchamp98]

I believe it is a FIFA edict. Something about certain countries not approving of it, naked chests . It's a worldwide game so the rule covers all FIFA countries..........

Whether it is a good rule or not, I think it's daft, I think it is even dafter to keep doing it and getting a card for your troubles. Plenty of ways to celebrate, I don't get the shirt off one.

Yes I can’t remember anyone doing it in the World Cup!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Don’t much care about the debate - just asking the question…Is there a difference between a fan and a supporter.

Frankly I don’t much ‘support’ the club I follow as it‘s a heck of a return trip from Surrey to Perth (750 miles), but I (sadly) drive around Surrey, and to and from the club, with my St Johnstone cup double winners scarf proudly on display on the back shelf of my runabout.

I count myself most certainly a dedicated fan…apart from anything else a proud one who put up with lot of slagging by my Rangers and Celtic school chums. There was me and Alec Stewart…the only Saintees in our Glasgow secondary school.

And so the day, May 17th 2014, I went to Parkhead with my cousin, his wife, my son and my mum to watch our team win the Scottish Cup for the first time - and first time in the final - remains one of the most cherished memories I hold now that mum has gone. We stick with them through the tough, despairing and fallow years, despite the laughter and scorn thrown our way, in hope - and on that day in 2014 the hopes of 15,000 St Johnstone fans of all living generations materialised in the first ever cup win. And off the back of that win 5 yrs later the same diddy and scoffed at club, won the Scottish cup double.

Only one year later the same club just avoided relegation through the playoffs. Cos that’s how it is and I don’t give a toss whether or not I get to many games, my heart and emotions are with that Perth team every time they play. I don’t need to be there to be a real and true fan.

But one day in 2019 I was there.

 

[GB72]

Bit of googling suggests that the removing shirt rule is in part to prevent excessive celebration (looking at the law it seems that quite a few other things are potential yellow card offences but shirt removing is compulsory) and part to prevent time wasting.

 

[Swango1980]

SPOILER ALERT: This post may contain quite a few words, so feel free to ignore and move on. Might contain criticism of Antony and Bruno. However, it is a Monday morning in the office, might as well get this one out of the way. Otherwise I'll just be cursing them all day.

There is no doubt Man Utd have generally played well since that thrashing by Brentford, forgetting the 6-3 loss to City. However, there are still signs that the soft underbelly can still be exposed. Not as easy to penetrate as the last few seasons, but if a team has good attacking players, the risk is still there. Question is, why? I suspect the answer is that there are just a few too many players in the side that switch off and sulk when they are up against it. Or, they switch off when they suddenly think they are better than they are. That they can just turn up and win, without much effort.

Winning the League Cup last week might have gone to a few players heads. Liverpool have been pretty shocking this season, so I think a few of those players just felt they were going to Anfield for a victory parade. Give it to them. In all honesty, the majority of the 1st half was decent, but one moment of switching off, and it seemed a few too many players panicked. Forgot about defence, and just went gung-ho attack. I also wonder how much mental fatigue might have played. Liverpool fans have used that excuse for their performances all season, so it may be a genuine factor for at least one game, after players have been playing lots of games without any real time off.

Antony: Over last month or 2, he has taken 4 steps forwards in my mind. Not lived up to the price tag, but always willing to take the ball and run at the opposition. Yesterday was 50 steps back. Even in the first half, I was thinking he was not up to it. It was difficult to judge, because as a teleclapper he was never in the camera shot (even wide screen) to judge. I could only judge him by his absence, and the fact he gave Robertson complete freedom of that side of the pitch, with only Dalot left with picking him Gakpo up, or whoever else went out that way. I saw MOTD2 this morning, and my suspicions were not only correct, but it seemed like it was worse than I could even imagine. He simply had no interest in getting back. At 0-0 a ball was sprayed out to Antony. Instead of controlling it like a normal human being, he jumped up, crossed over his legs and controlled it with the inside of his other foot. The control was immaculate, but what on earth was the point? It is embarrassing. Not even because it is disrespectful to the opposition, but because later on a short corner was played to him, and I screamed in despair before it even got to him as I knew there was zero chance he would be able to cross it first time with his right foot. So Antony, stop working on those absolutely pointless skills, and spend that time working on how to kick a ball with your right foot please.

Bruno: I suspect Shaw was also exposed as Bruno was also guilty of leaving him exposed. If you watch highlights of Man Utd games, Bruno can often look like a very good player. He is often involved in the build up to goals and chances. However, watch the full game, and it also feels like he is guilty of giving away the ball more than he makes a successful pass. Moves seem to break down prematurely a bit too often, and it gives more chances for the opponents to get possession and build an attack of their own. Of course, we all see the whinging. Thing is, it isn't just opposition fans that comment on it. Even Man Utd fans hate it (I don't know any that try and defend him). So, if his own fans are tired of it, imagine what his team mates think? If you are a player in a team, is Bruno the sort of guy you want leading you into the toughest of battles? I'd say absolutely not, and I suspect the players would say the same, at least privately. I suspect he is simply captain as he has been there longer than others, and he was the best out of a pretty weak bunch before Ten hag arrived. Going forward, I think someone like Casemiro or Martinez would be far better. Let them be the voice on the pitch, and give them more license to give Bruno some home truths. When Utd have played well this season, the plaudits have generally been around Rashford, Casemiro, Martinez, Shaw and Varane. Even Fred has been given some plaudits, albeit with the caveat he can be awful in one half, sensational in another. However, Bruno hasn't really stood out as being a pivotal figure in the side. Certainly nowhere near the stand out performances he gave when he first joined. If Utd were to sell any first team players to get a bit of money, I genuinely wouldn't be too disappointed if Bruno was one of the first to be put on the list. Not sure how much money we'd get, but I'm sure there are others out there that would do his role at least as well, if not better, without the whinging (if Eriksen was fit, I'd happily see him in that role and give Bruno a rest)). Of course, I hope he can be made to become a much more consistently good player in the side, and I hope yesterday was a real kick up the backside.

Intrigued what Thursday night will bring now.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Bit of googling suggests that the removing shirt rule is in part to prevent excessive celebration (looking at the law it seems that quite a few other things are potential yellow card offences but shirt removing is compulsory) and part to prevent time wasting.

I've just done the same and it seems they are a little hazy about exact reasons. There are a few accumulative points, to avoid time wasting, to keep sponsors names on display, to avoid political messages on shirts underneath, to avoid offending certain cultures, to make sure officials can always identify a player.........

 

[fundy]

The Spurs Stadium is supposed to be great - I suspect you'll have a great day. I assume you're sitting with the Spurs fans? You'd have had a great time sat with the Forest fans - our away support are generally a good bunch who like to enjoy the day out. I know plenty who go to most away games and they're all fans of football - no hooligan mentality. Just enjoy singing for 90 minutes.
But I get why you perhaps wouldn't enjoy it, as the tribal aspect is embarrassing. Just look what happened to the poor Spurs fan after going to the Sheffield United in the FA Cup last week.

Hopefully you're a good luck charm for Forest as we could do with the points.

If it looks like a toilet bowl ....

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I believe it is a FIFA edict. Something about certain countries not approving of it, naked chests . It's a worldwide game so the rule covers all FIFA countries..........

Whether it is a good rule or not, I think it's daft, I think it is even dafter to keep doing it and getting a card for your troubles. Plenty of ways to celebrate, I don't get the shirt off one.

I think it’s hard to judge how the player is feeling at the time they score that goal

Salah does it when it’s key goals - he knew that he needed two goals to become the clubs top Prem scorer and when it’s gone it he is just exploding with delight - same when anyone scores a big goal , we mainly only see it when there is a big goal and it’s stupid Imo that in sport how a player celebrates is restricted.

 

[GB72]

I've just done the same and it seems they are a little hazy about exact reasons. There are a few accumulative points, to avoid time wasting, to keep sponsors names on display, to avoid political messages on shirts underneath, to avoid offending certain cultures, to make sure officials can always identify a player.........

In all honesty, I think that the political message thing is a big part. You now how FIFA hates to upset its paymasters and I am sure I recall this ban being at the height of players having tee shirts with political messages on underneath. Basically it was bypassing the FIFA edict on nothing political on shirts.

 

[Swango1980]

The arguments of "true supporters" comes up every now and then. It always seems to start when some season ticket holder is desperately trying to prove that their opinion is more valid than another persons. It is a bit sad really. People have opinions, and they are what they are, whether they go to games or not. If I said Everton or West Ham have not played well this season, I'd have thought that would be a valid comment? I don't need to go to games to have that validated. If I criticised fans for not supporting their side when things get tough, I could be questioned, as I'm not in that stadium myself. I don't know if this is true, maybe the microphones are furher away. Maybe I don't appreciate what it feels like to turn up to a game, and be utterly underwhelmed by the players in my team (although, I have gone to quite a few N Ireland games and the support is immense all the time regardless of how bad the players are, though I appreciate it is different to regular club football).

There may well be many season ticket holders who live within a few miles of the ground, who like to call themselves a true supporter. Yet, how many of them would never get to games if their life circumstances changed, such as moving 50+ miles away to another job? Whereas you could have another fan who doesn't get to games as they live 200 miles away, but would definitely get a season ticket if they could, if they lived within 100 miles. Just on the location factor alone, you could argue the second guy is a much more passionate supporter, but circumstances don't allow them to get to as many games as the chap that lives down the road from the stadium. Growing up in N Ireland, as you'd expect, not may season ticket holders of English teams. Yet, I knew many passionate fans of PL clubs, who planned their lives around watching games on TV. Who were excited all week about a match coming up. Who felt at their happiest when their team won, and fell into depression when they played badly. There was a dad who lived across the road from me when I was a kid, who I never saw wear anything but a Liverpool shirt, with Liverpool FC tattoos. He was the enemy, but I fully respected the fact that, in my mind, he was a proper die hard fan. Whether all of his opinions were valid is another matter. You could have 2 die hard season ticket holders with completely different opinions about their side anyway. How many "proper" fans wanted Klopp out, and how many wanted him to stay?

 

[road2ruin]

SPOILER ALERT: This post may contain quite a few words, so feel free to ignore and move on. Might contain criticism of Antony and Bruno. However, it is a Monday morning in the office, might as well get this one out of the way. Otherwise I'll just be cursing them all day.

There is no doubt Man Utd have generally played well since that thrashing by Brentford, forgetting the 6-3 loss to City. However, there are still signs that the soft underbelly can still be exposed. Not as easy to penetrate as the last few seasons, but if a team has good attacking players, the risk is still there. Question is, why? I suspect the answer is that there are just a few too many players in the side that switch off and sulk when they are up against it. Or, they switch off when they suddenly think they are better than they are. That they can just turn up and win, without much effort.

Winning the League Cup last week might have gone to a few players heads. Liverpool have been pretty shocking this season, so I think a few of those players just felt they were going to Anfield for a victory parade. Give it to them. In all honesty, the majority of the 1st half was decent, but one moment of switching off, and it seemed a few too many players panicked. Forgot about defence, and just went gung-ho attack. I also wonder how much mental fatigue might have played. Liverpool fans have used that excuse for their performances all season, so it may be a genuine factor for at least one game, after players have been playing lots of games without any real time off.

Antony: Over last month or 2, he has taken 4 steps forwards in my mind. Not lived up to the price tag, but always willing to take the ball and run at the opposition. Yesterday was 50 steps back. Even in the first half, I was thinking he was not up to it. It was difficult to judge, because as a teleclapper he was never in the camera shot (even wide screen) to judge. I could only judge him by his absence, and the fact he gave Robertson complete freedom of that side of the pitch, with only Dalot left with picking him Gakpo up, or whoever else went out that way. I saw MOTD2 this morning, and my suspicions were not only correct, but it seemed like it was worse than I could even imagine. He simply had no interest in getting back. At 0-0 a ball was sprayed out to Antony. Instead of controlling it like a normal human being, he jumped up, crossed over his legs and controlled it with the inside of his other foot. The control was immaculate, but what on earth was the point? It is embarrassing. Not even because it is disrespectful to the opposition, but because later on a short corner was played to him, and I screamed in despair before it even got to him as I knew there was zero chance he would be able to cross it first time with his right foot. So Antony, stop working on those absolutely pointless skills, and spend that time working on how to kick a ball with your right foot please.

Bruno: I suspect Shaw was also exposed as Bruno was also guilty of leaving him exposed. If you watch highlights of Man Utd games, Bruno can often look like a very good player. He is often involved in the build up to goals and chances. However, watch the full game, and it also feels like he is guilty of giving away the ball more than he makes a successful pass. Moves seem to break down prematurely a bit too often, and it gives more chances for the opponents to get possession and build an attack of their own. Of course, we all see the whinging. Thing is, it isn't just opposition fans that comment on it. Even Man Utd fans hate it (I don't know any that try and defend him). So, if his own fans are tired of it, imagine what his team mates think? If you are a player in a team, is Bruno the sort of guy you want leading you into the toughest of battles? I'd say absolutely not, and I suspect the players would say the same, at least privately. I suspect he is simply captain as he has been there longer than others, and he was the best out of a pretty weak bunch before Ten hag arrived. Going forward, I think someone like Casemiro or Martinez would be far better. Let them be the voice on the pitch, and give them more license to give Bruno some home truths. When Utd have played well this season, the plaudits have generally been around Rashford, Casemiro, Martinez, Shaw and Varane. Even Fred has been given some plaudits, albeit with the caveat he can be awful in one half, sensational in another. However, Bruno hasn't really stood out as being a pivotal figure in the side. Certainly nowhere near the stand out performances he gave when he first joined. If Utd were to sell any first team players to get a bit of money, I genuinely wouldn't be too disappointed if Bruno was one of the first to be put on the list. Not sure how much money we'd get, but I'm sure there are others out there that would do his role at least as well, if not better, without the whinging (if Eriksen was fit, I'd happily see him in that role and give Bruno a rest)). Of course, I hope he can be made to become a much more consistently good player in the side, and I hope yesterday was a real kick up the backside.

Intrigued what Thursday night will bring now.

I do think that fatigue coupled with not having much depth to the squad is going to be a factor both in yesterday's result and the end of the season. United have played 18 games over 9 weeks since the start of January, which is 5 more than Liverpool over the same period. It's not an excuse for the performance however possible a case of the rate of games catching up?

Over the next 10 days there are another 4 games at the end of which we could be in the FA Cup Semi's, the next round of the Europa League and have another 3 points in the bag. Obviously a case of if's and but's however I would expect a reaction.

9 March - Real Betis (H) Europa League
12 March - Southampton (H) Premier League
16 March - Real Beitis (A) Europa League
19 March - Fulham (H) FA Cup

 

[Bdill93]

I do think that fatigue coupled with not having much depth to the squad is going to be a factor both in yesterday's result and the end of the season. United have played 18 games over 9 weeks since the start of January, which is 5 more than Liverpool over the same period. It's not an excuse for the performance however possible a case of the rate of games catching up?

Over the next 10 days there are another 4 games at the end of which we could be in the FA Cup Semi's, the next round of the Europa League and have another 3 points in the bag. Obviously a case of if's and but's however I would expect a reaction.

9 March - Real Betis (H) Europa League
12 March - Southampton (H) Premier League
16 March - Real Beitis (A) Europa League
19 March - Fulham (H) FA Cup

I honestly just think its one of those one off results and shouldnt be read into too much. Liverpool did fine after we beat them 7-2, United will be fine after this.

 

[Neilds]

The arguments of "true supporters" comes up every now and then. It always seems to start when some season ticket holder is desperately trying to prove that their opinion is more valid than another persons. It is a bit sad really. People have opinions, and they are what they are, whether they go to games or not. If I said Everton or West Ham have not played well this season, I'd have thought that would be a valid comment? I don't need to go to games to have that validated. If I criticised fans for not supporting their side when things get tough, I could be questioned, as I'm not in that stadium myself. I don't know if this is true, maybe the microphones are furher away. Maybe I don't appreciate what it feels like to turn up to a game, and be utterly underwhelmed by the players in my team (although, I have gone to quite a few N Ireland games and the support is immense all the time regardless of how bad the players are, though I appreciate it is different to regular club football).

There may well be many season ticket holders who live within a few miles of the ground, who like to call themselves a true supporter. Yet, how many of them would never get to games if their life circumstances changed, such as moving 50+ miles away to another job? Whereas you could have another fan who doesn't get to games as they live 200 miles away, but would definitely get a season ticket if they could, if they lived within 100 miles. Just on the location factor alone, you could argue the second guy is a much more passionate supporter, but circumstances don't allow them to get to as many games as the chap that lives down the road from the stadium. Growing up in N Ireland, as you'd expect, not may season ticket holders of English teams. Yet, I knew many passionate fans of PL clubs, who planned their lives around watching games on TV. Who were excited all week about a match coming up. Who felt at their happiest when their team won, and fell into depression when they played badly. There was a dad who lived across the road from me when I was a kid, who I never saw wear anything but a Liverpool shirt, with Liverpool FC tattoos. He was the enemy, but I fully respected the fact that, in my mind, he was a proper die hard fan. Whether all of his opinions were valid is another matter. You could have 2 die hard season ticket holders with completely different opinions about their side anyway. How many "proper" fans wanted Klopp out, and how many wanted him to stay?

I must qualify as a proper fan, although living in Wiltshire I don't get to many Rotherham Utd games, have to wait til they play the likes of Bristol City, Cardiff, Swansea etc but I do have a RUFC golf towel, phone cover and I even got a driver cover, valuables bag and alignment stick cover made from a RUFC home shirt

 

[Neilds]

I honestly just think its one of those one off results and shouldnt be read into too much. Liverpool did fine after we beat them 7-2, United will be fine after this.

Will be interesting to see how Liverpool get on at Bournemouth on Saturday. Can they match the intensity in that game when they are 'expected' to win?

 

[GB72]

I honestly just think its one of those one off results and shouldnt be read into too much. Liverpool did fine after we beat them 7-2, United will be fine after this.

Honestly, I have brushed off some of the heavey defeats i have watched easier than other results. The heavy defeats are often just one of those days where the team are just not running anything correctly and it all just falls appart. The worrying results are where you are playing as the manager wants, playing to the best of your ability and still keep losing. United did not become a bad team over night in the same way Liverpool did not become world beaters. A great result for banter and bragging rights but not much more than that.

P.S If I hear one more fan on a radio phone in shoehorning in a 7-Up gag as if they were the first person to think about it. I may actually smash my radio.