The Footie Thread

[Lord Tyrion]

I only saw it on Twitter ?‍?

I think Sky are saying it. Not for definite but that it will happen. Board meeting this morning.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I think Sky are saying it. Not for definite but that it will happen. Board meeting this morning.

Straight swap for Moyes.?

 

[PJ87]

His time at Derby and Chelsea wasn't awful, unless you are a West Ham of course as clearly Frank is the devil to all hammers . He did okay at both clubs but this was his chance to build something. Now, he was hamstrung by an imbalanced squad, money issues, but he didn't put his mark on things, didn't generate a particular style of play that worked or looked attractive. I think it was an okay appointment, it just didn't work.

As to his next step.....Championship team, team in Holland or Belgium? He won't get a PL team again until he has clearly succeeded somewhere else. Same as Gerrard really, they are in the same boat.

Lampard and Gerrard both got jobs on their name rather than their ability

Both should have stayed where they were for longer before jumping to the prem

Ironically did good jobs and derby / rangers but not ready for the prem and found out.

Called lampard being a poor appointment when he got the job. He has done nothing in the role to improve Everton

 

[Orikoru]

You do watch United occasionally I take it? Because your patronising comment suggests not.

For far too long Rashford has been capable of the extraordinary, but repeatedly made an utter hash of the ordinary. Some experts on here blamed his poor form over the last year to eighteen months on a long term shoulder injury. But a shoulder injury does not impact on decision making, and Rashford’s had become truly awful - regularly running down blind alleys into a clutch of defenders, never knowing when to offload to a team mate, and giving possession away cheaply time and time and time again. Free kicks were either struck directly into the wall or Row Z. But, hey. He had a shoulder injury.

The shoulder injury also, presumably, impacted on his finishing. Until this season, which has seen a resurgence under the new manager, I would say Rashford’s finishing, one on one, was woeful. He missed way more than he put away. That’s nothing to do with a shoulder injury. That’s a player whose career had stalled, and who was looking very much as though he needed a fresh start elsewhere.

I have been an Old Trafford regular for the best part of forty years, so rather than relying on edited TV highlights and press sound bites I have seen, first hand, how poor the entire team has been for far too long. You should be aware that Rashford started his career post Ferguson, when United were little better, if at all, than they were last season. That didn’t prevent him having a stellar start to his career. So he has proved in the past that he is capable of shining in an otherwise average side.

Prior to this season the performances had been largely lacking for a year or more. That’s not just down to being part of a poor side, because he’s clearly been part of a very average one for years. He is like a new signing this season, because of the confidence instilled in him by the manager.

Of course he hadn’t become a poor player - but he had become one who clearly wasn’t enjoying his football, was lacking in confidence, and wasn’t performing at anywhere near the level he should have been. He had been that way for far too long and, as a consequence, wasn’t worth his place in the side.

Football evolves over time, and players with it. Rashford has evolved and is now right back up there. Last year he clearly wanted to be anywhere else but on a football pitch, at least in a United shirt. And because I didn’t want to accept that my knowledge of football “isn’t up to speed”?

I haven’t spent a small fortune attending games to do so with my eyes shut, despite what you think.

I don't mind admitting that I didn't rate him. Looked to have a trick and a decent strike of the ball from distance, but as you say, inside the box finishing was very hit and miss. A cynic could say he was distracted by external issues such as the feeding the poor campaign and suchlike - or perhaps it was just poor man management from Rangnick & Solskjaer. If so we can give Ten Hag some credit for completely turning his game around.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Straight swap for Moyes.?

We wouldn't have him after the way he left, I don't think WH would have the devil in charge at their club.

 

[GB72]

Not sure how much of Lampard's success at Derby was due to having access to an excellent set of young players on loan from Chelsea.

 

[Red devil]

I think the board held on to Lampard for as long as they could because they wanted to change the hire and fire of recent times and they wanted to see if he could turn it around. That wasn't happening so they had little choice in the end. This gives us a chance of survival now. A shame, I would have liked Lampard to have worked, not just because I want us to do well, but because it was a chance for both him and the club to build something together. Both parties wanted this to work and both are now in trouble.

Sean Dyche,do you think?

 

[Fade and Die]

We wouldn't have him after the way he left, I don't think WH would have the devil in charge at their club.

Moyes to Everton, Potter to West Ham and Frank Jnr back to Chelsea.?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not sure how much of Lampard's success at Derby was due to having access to an excellent set of young players on loan from Chelsea.

Not sure he really had any success at Derby - you could prob say he failed by not gaining promotion with a talented squad

He hasnt really been successful at any club - not much track record and it’s not a surprise that he has been found wanting

 

[BiMGuy]

Not sure how much of Lampard's success at Derby was due to having access to an excellent set of young players on loan from Chelsea.

All of it.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Sean Dyche,do you think?

It seems an obvious one. No compensation to pay, instantly available. He knows the league, he knows about life near the bottom and how to get teams up the league.

It would give Dyche a chance to build a club, he'd ultimately have some money to spend which he hasn't really had before, and we move into the new stadium in a couple of seasons. Attractive for him as well I'd say.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Moyes to Everton, Potter to West Ham and Frank Jnr back to Chelsea.?

You would get good odds on that as a triple, for good reason

 

[Swango1980]

Is Frank Lampard really that bad, or have the teams he has been with not given him the best platform to shine with good win stats? His win rates at Derby, Chelsea and Everton have been 42.1%, 52.4% and 27.3%. Eddie Howe at Bournemouth, Burnley, Bournemouth and Newcastle are 50%, 39.1%, 40.2% and 49.06%. Sean Dyche at Watford and Burnley 34.7% and 35.1%. Klopp at Mainz, Dortmund and Liverpool 40.4%, 56.4% and 60.6%.

I'm not saying he is a good manager, but I struggle to really know if he is or isn't (I don't watch his teams play with much attention as to how he has them playing, as I'm not a fan). Is the Chelsea win rate so bad, as I seem to remember they couldn't sign players and isn't that when he got some of the youngsters like Mount coming through? The Everton win rate is poor. They've started conceding goals in the last month or so, yet goals conceded is still lower than everyone else in the bottom half except West Ham. And, I think they had one of the best defensive records in whole league a month or 2 ago (have they had injuries, played better teams, or are heads dropping as they've been putting in so much effort, but with little reward?).

Everton's big issue is up front. They have DCL who seems to be always injured, and they lost Richarlison. Looking at their squad, the other players listed as FW are Dwight McNeill (7 goals in 134 appearances for Burnley before joining Everton), Anthony Gordon (I thought he was a midfielder), Demarai Gray (scored a goal every 13/14 games for Leicester), Andros Townsend (is he not about 50 years old now?), Neal Maupay (surprising signing for me, giving my perception of him was he continually missed chance after chance in a very positive Brighton team) and Ellis Simms (scoring record isn't appalling, at the clubs he has been loaned out to, obviously hasn't had many opportunities at Everton).

Basically, the Everton attacking line up seems pretty horrific. I'm not sure, even the best managers would get a tune out of them? Is the issue with Lampard that he is trying too hard to get them playing some sort of attractive attacking football? Would someone like Allardyce or Dyche just have them set up super defensive, and play long balls?

It may be a good advert that, if you have had a great playing career in the British public eye, taking a Premier League job is a huge risk. If it goes poorly, you're the worst manager in the world. Even if the team and players stink. Starting at lesser teams allows you to "quietly" learn the ropes. You can make mistakes, and learn from them without being hounded as much. You may lose a few jobs, but is you manage to get a team playing well in your first few years of management, people might start taking notice and you can then work your way up the ladder. Or, maybe do what Arteta did, if you are lucky, to work as a coach for a few years under a respected manager, and learn what is takes to manage players on a day by day basis.

 

[Swango1980]

You do watch United occasionally I take it? Because your patronising comment suggests not.

For far too long Rashford has been capable of the extraordinary, but repeatedly made an utter hash of the ordinary. Some experts on here blamed his poor form over the last year to eighteen months on a long term shoulder injury. But a shoulder injury does not impact on decision making, and Rashford’s had become truly awful - regularly running down blind alleys into a clutch of defenders, never knowing when to offload to a team mate, and giving possession away cheaply time and time and time again. Free kicks were either struck directly into the wall or Row Z. But, hey. He had a shoulder injury.

The shoulder injury also, presumably, impacted on his finishing. Until this season, which has seen a resurgence under the new manager, I would say Rashford’s finishing, one on one, was woeful. He missed way more than he put away. That’s nothing to do with a shoulder injury. That’s a player whose career had stalled, and who was looking very much as though he needed a fresh start elsewhere.

I have been an Old Trafford regular for the best part of forty years, so rather than relying on edited TV highlights and press sound bites I have seen, first hand, how poor the entire team has been for far too long. You should be aware that Rashford started his career post Ferguson, when United were little better, if at all, than they were last season. That didn’t prevent him having a stellar start to his career. So he has proved in the past that he is capable of shining in an otherwise average side.

Prior to this season the performances had been largely lacking for a year or more. That’s not just down to being part of a poor side, because he’s clearly been part of a very average one for years. He is like a new signing this season, because of the confidence instilled in him by the manager.

Of course he hadn’t become a poor player - but he had become one who clearly wasn’t enjoying his football, was lacking in confidence, and wasn’t performing at anywhere near the level he should have been. He had been that way for far too long and, as a consequence, wasn’t worth his place in the side.

Football evolves over time, and players with it. Rashford has evolved and is now right back up there. Last year he clearly wanted to be anywhere else but on a football pitch, at least in a United shirt. And because I didn’t want to accept that my knowledge of football “isn’t up to speed”?

I haven’t spent a small fortune attending games to do so with my eyes shut, despite what you think.

Good post. I certainly wasn't in the "get Rashford out" camp, but agree he was absolutely dire. Incredibly frustrating. You'd look at his qualities and physique, yet when playing it was like he absolutely could not make a decision. And he looked so depressed every time he played. I saw a guy who had so much potential, yet was absolutely awful. I kept thinking Theo Walcott and the "no football brain" accusations laid at him. Thought Rashford was miles better than Walcott, but no football brain. Also wondered if off the field activities were a strain on his mental well being. Maybe it is stressful having to constantly be the figure head of such an important issue, feeling the need to always be on top of what government is doing, having a voice on it, and having people constantly contacting him for comment and visiting poor families/schools.

When the eyes of expectation are on you, and you play in a rubbish team with a rubbish coach, it must be hard to perform. It is no good Ole clapping his hands on the touchline (on rare occasions he was on the touchline) and timidly shouting "heads up boys". He needed proper coaches, proper discipline, and basically someone that was assertive in the messages they were getting across to him.

Really nice to see him have the impact he is having now. Having a much more solid central midfield also calms things down a bit, mostly, and gives Rashford more opportunity to focus on his attacking strengths. So far at least.

 

[PJ87]

Moyes to Everton, Potter to West Ham and Frank Jnr back to Chelsea.?

I really hate to be the one to break the news but Moyes will be staying until the end of his contract...

Its clear the board want someone with experience to see the final squad overhaul in the summer when rice will leave .. then cresswell and oggy, lanzini etc contracts end and we need more replacements .

He will be overseeing that ahead of summer 2024 when they will either not renew or get someone new in

 

[Orikoru]

I really hate to be the one to break the news but Moyes will be staying until the end of his contract...

Its clear the board want someone with experience to see the final squad overhaul in the summer when rice will leave .. then cresswell and oggy, lanzini etc contracts end and we need more replacements .

He will be overseeing that ahead of summer 2024 when they will either not renew or get someone new in

Can't see that being true when you're on the verge of being relegated.

 

[GB72]

With the story having been out in the press since early this morning and nothing formally having been announced yet, what odds that the replacement for Lampard has already been sorted and the club want to get everything signed and sealed and announce the departure and replacement at basically the same itme.

 

[PJ87]

Can't see that being true when you're on the verge of being relegated.

We won't be relegated, the table is tight..I still back us for 14-12th

Saturday was our first game of the season were out first choice cb partnership played (zouma and aguard)

Paquata is starting to look settled and ings has been signed

 

[fundy]

We won't be relegated, the table is tight..I still back us for 14-12th

Saturday was our first game of the season were out first choice cb partnership played (zouma and aguard)

Paquata is starting to look settled and ings has been signed

Is 12th to 14th good enough for your squad?

Doesnt change that you are massively underperforming considering the players you have, shouldnt be anywhere near the bottom of the table with less than a point a game! Compare your squad to Evertons, Bournemouths, Southamptons, Forests etc

Is Moyes really the right choice of "experience" to see this overhaul? Very few of your players are anywhere close to last years form and his tactics get more and more defensive

Personally be very surprised if Moyes is your manager next season, its only your European exploits that have kept him in the job till now

 

[PJ87]

Is 12th to 14th good enough for your squad?

Doesnt change that you are massively underperforming considering the players you have, shouldnt be anywhere near the bottom of the table with less than a point a game! Compare your squad to Evertons, Bournemouths, Southamptons, Forests etc

Is Moyes really the right choice of "experience" to see this overhaul? Very few of your players are anywhere close to last years form and his tactics get more and more defensive

Personally be very surprised if Moyes is your manager next season, its only your European exploits that have kept him in the job till now

Just have look at history to see Moyes had a season like this at Everton. Finished 15th believe it was next season finished 4th

Takes time for players to bed in. We bought a lot of new players in the summer. Aguard was the player to build around defence wise. He got injured pre season which changed our entire system

We lost noble in the summer whilst he wasn't amazing he was a good captain and rice is a poor captain imo (on pitch fine but off pitch not ready at all) so lost a lot of togetherness

Moyes even said he broke down the cliques .. everyone sat with everyone, team dinners. Hanging out. Players come into that and naturally the Italians sit together , french sit together etc as they speak the same language, needs to work again on team building

We will be more than fine and 12-14th is acceptable

People forget we still are in European football right now , topped the group . May be a "lesser" Comp but it's still something to play for