rulefan
Tour Winner
There are no formal rules for scrambles, whether Texas or Florida.
Each committee makes their own. Often (or usually) on the run.
Each committee makes their own. Often (or usually) on the run.
Texas Scramble query....
- Thread starter Smiffy
- Start date
GreggerKBR
Head Pro
I confess I did once ask a chap to putt his ball up the teeing ground on a par 3, many years ago.
So that he didn't knock it into knee deep rough or worse!
We had to take his tee shots on 17 & 18 as he's played so terribly.
The others on our team got a bit upset and told him to give it a go.
He hit the edge of the green about 30ft from the hole! And I holed the putt for a birdie 2.
We made birdie 4 on par 5 18th off his tee shot (which was not that terrible in fact).
I apologised, we celebrated with 3rd place!
I'm still a bit embarrassed - lesson learned, it was poor manners from me.
HDID Kenny
Challenge Tour Pro
Wrong you have selected his drive therefore everyone plays from the chosen drive which in this case is 3 off the tee.
GreggerKBR
Head Pro
If he's gone OOB, his "Drive" is not in play, therefore he drives again, the rest of the team only play from where his drive finishes.
chrisd
Major Champion
Thats the way we've always played it, but there are no universal rules
doublebogey7
Head Pro
From rhe rules of golf definitions "A ball is "in play" as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground". It only becomes out of play when it lies out of bounds, so he has put a ball in play.
GreggerKBR
Head Pro
As you've already said... "It only becomes out of play when it lies out of bounds"
So... it is, NOT in play. Therefore, you are not playing from his drive are you?
But, I guess if you really want to read that from the rules and think it's in the spirit of the game and your competition committee have not specifically advised how they want the "drive" to be selected, you could, if you really think it's right, all hit a tee shot under penalty from the tee then select the best drive. If you are that convinced you are right, I'm not going to continue arguing the point.
chrisd
Major Champion
That would be my take on it. I believe when it goes oob it is not "out of play" but it is lost.
Colin L
Tour Winner
It is really important to make the rules in a scramble clear where the format creates a situation not covered by the Rules of Golf and you make a rule as best you can. One idea of the rule for selecting an OOB drive may differ from another. All that matters is that it is made clear to competitions what the rule is.
For the OOB situation, I think it best to reason that it is the outcome of a stroke that is selected, i.e. if it is my shot that is selected and my ball is in bunker, a water hazard, an unplayable lie or out of bounds, you proceed according to where the ball lies. If it is unplayable, you decide which relief option to take and you all play from there with a penalty stroke added. If it is out of bounds, then everyone plays from where the next stroke should be played for an OOB ball - back where it is was hit from with a penalty stroke added on. (On a related matter, to save time, I only allow a provisional to be played if there is no ball in play that could be selected.)
That is not what the Rules say, because as is clear, the Rules are silent on the matter of a scramble. It is just what I have reasoned and what I put into our scramble rules. Someone else might take a different view and have a different rule. You just have to do your best to make sure players know what to do so that everyone in the competition does the same thing.
GreggerKBR
Head Pro
I respect your view on this Colin. The team would have incurred a penalty and it would seem that the penalty (stroke and distance) of playing 3 from the tee should be penalty enough on the team.
But, importantly where we do agree most is that the committee should/must stipulate how they want any scramble competition played.
It's not good enough to just assume everyone knows how a competition that does not have any rules should be played as people are bound to have
differing opinions.
And as soon as 4th place team sees that 3rd or 2nd should/should not have done something the arguments start...
I had this debate with a few of my committee last night and they do now appreciate they must provide a sheet with rules on the day.
But, importantly where we do agree most is that the committee should/must stipulate how they want any scramble competition played.
It's not good enough to just assume everyone knows how a competition that does not have any rules should be played as people are bound to have
differing opinions.
And as soon as 4th place team sees that 3rd or 2nd should/should not have done something the arguments start...
I had this debate with a few of my committee last night and they do now appreciate they must provide a sheet with rules on the day.
HDID Kenny
Challenge Tour Pro
It doesn't say you can only choose players drive if it is in play, you are choosing his drive, the fact it finishes OOB dictates the next action which is everyone playing the 3rd shot from the teeing area.
doublebogey7
Head Pro
I agree
williamalex1
Money List Winner
I thought the player who's drive was selected, had to play the next stroke with his ball.
HDID Kenny
Challenge Tour Pro
I thought the player who's drive was selected, had to play the next stroke with his ball.
Not under penalty,, if player hits it into a water hazard and is unable to retrieve the ball, he would drop a new ball under penalty.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Totally correct
(Not withstanding total agreement that organising committees should publish clear guidelines for any specific scramble rules in force - same for grensomes and derivatives)
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Would suggesting a deliberate air shot have been a better option? If Player A sticks it OOB or into a bush you would all have been playing 3 either off the tee or from a drop from the bush. With an air shot you could have played 2 from the tee (could all players have teed it up for their shots?). I'm not suggesting that this is ethical or within the rules of golf but would it have been a better suggestion?
Green Bay Hacker
Journeyman Pro
Interesting point that. As we know, a ball is in play when you make a stroke at it and with an air shot you are usually making a stroke at the ball and it is not a deliberate miss. However, if you do a deliberate air shot you are probably not making a stroke at the ball so it is not in play. Is that a correct assumption?
Colin L
Tour Winner
A deliberate air shot cannot be a stroke as there was no intention of striking the ball.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Yes.
There is (or was) a decision somewhere that related to a Foursome where a lady couldn't clear a problem area with her tee shot, so she deliberately missed the ball so the her male partner could have a nice lie for him to hit it clear.
I think the penalty was DQ under 33-7.
There is (or was) a decision somewhere that related to a Foursome where a lady couldn't clear a problem area with her tee shot, so she deliberately missed the ball so the her male partner could have a nice lie for him to hit it clear.
I think the penalty was DQ under 33-7.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Just found it. Couldn't find it before.
It is in fact 29-1/7
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-29,d29-1-7
