Supplementary Scores

[Old Skier]

@pauljames87 reading that it is obvious he has no understanding of slope or CR, perhaps he should look at places like Suanton where the novice will look at slope and say - how did they work that out - and then look at CR at say exactly the same. As to an appeal against the slope, this is the clubs right but you need to ask if the course has officially been assessed or if it has been a temporary figure. There are still a large number of clubs not yet done.

I can only advise what I have said before reference supplementary/casual cards, you should be contacting your county

 

[PJ87]

@pauljames87 reading that it is obvious he has no understanding of slope or CR, perhaps he should look at places like Suanton where the novice will look at slope and say - how did they work that out - and then look at CR at say exactly the same. As to an appeal against the slope, this is the clubs right but you need to ask if the course has officially been assessed or if it has been a temporary figure. There are still a large number of clubs not yet done.

I can only advise what I have said before reference supplementary/casual cards, you should be contacting your county

Who can sign a general play card out of interest?

I am playing today but on my own so that's out the question

Tuesday week I'm playing with an old colleague who is joining soon so can he sign? Think he is an active member at a course down the road but looking to leave

Because of that lack of rounds I fit into his 12th April anyways so I'm good

Yeah the whole slopegate has been hilarious .. I think we have been properly assessed im not sure

If we appeal and it changes fair enough but I personally think best course of action .. just don't say anything unless it changes ..

 

[rulefan]

Who can sign a general play card out of interest?

Rule 4.4
The marker must be a person acceptable to the Handicap Committee

 

[Old Skier]

Who can sign a general play card out of interest?

I am playing today but on my own so that's out the question

Tuesday week I'm playing with an old colleague who is joining soon so can he sign? Think he is an active member at a course down the road but looking to leave

Because of that lack of rounds I fit into his 12th April anyways so I'm good

Yeah the whole slopegate has been hilarious .. I think we have been properly assessed im not sure

If we appeal and it changes fair enough but I personally think best course of action .. just don't say anything unless it changes ..

As per @rulefan however as more cards are likely to be completed at other courses hopefully your committee will adopt a sensible approach and allow any person with a current HI sign.

 

[PJ87]

As per @rulefan however as more cards are likely to be completed at other courses hopefully your committee will adopt a sensible approach and allow any person with a current HI sign.

To give him a tiny bit of credit when I first got a handicap he would accept anyone with a cdh number

And because of covid he would process my cards via picture (wanted the cards in envelop afters for reference ... Fine) which I didn't mind at all

But that was lockdown 1.0

Now it seems like zero care given .. in the comps we were told right cards will be left untouched for 2 days then scores posted for covid

We then got results next day ?

 

[rulefan]

Looking at the figures on the R&A site I would say they are not temporary ratings. Given that scratch and bogey ratings are calculated from separate measurements taken at the same time but will be equally accurate, it suggests that the course is not as daunting relatively for the high handicapper. Especially the East 9.
I doubt the appeal will get very far.

 

[PJ87]

Looking at the figures on the R&A site I would say they are not temporary ratings. Given that scratch and bogey ratings are calculated from separate measurements taken at the same time but will be equally accurate, it suggests that the course is not as daunting relatively for the high handicapper. Especially the East 9.
I doubt the appeal will get very far.

I fully agree with you here rule fan

I'm a higher handicapper myself. When I first joined I thought I'd hate the course (I didn't join before playing..I'd been avoiding the course as it was tough but I live 10 min drive away) anyways I scored ok.

Back 9 is much easier .. card saver for sure as more par 3s .. (only 1 on front 3 back)

But my low handicap mates one ball off line then suddenly struggling to get a score .. birdies don't come easy to make up for it

Yet if it's me I can easily make up a double with a par coming up

I mean last week .. first round out of lockdown.. started with two 8s . Rubbish yes but was mainly short game so 0 points 2 holes

1 point after 3 holes

Finished with 34 points .. all because once you get a run you can score

Play if it's playing hard you can just run an iron down the fairway and play sensible golf

 

[2blue]

@pauljames87 - I guess that with your PSI being unavailable it's the reason for waiting till mid-April before enabling the 'Casual Rounds' facility.
Sadly the rest of it seems to be rather a long way from understandable. Good luck

 

[Leftie5.6]

Pauljames87, I suspect the point has been made elsewhere however, the club can stifle the ability to put in supplementaries by moving a handful of tees forward to bring the course below the tolerance for its assessed length. The tolerance was 100yards pre-WHS.

 

[Leftie5.6]

I can see courses in Essex with a slope of more than 131 - that’s the current ceiling for me where my PH remains at 6. Your max slope is 127, nowhere near!
Your h/c sec is clearly struggling with his role. Your club is last in the alphabetic list of Essex clubs in the EG app which I suspect means it’s been added late. May b ano indication of struggling to keep up.

 

[rulefan]

Pauljames87, I suspect the point has been made elsewhere however, the club can stifle the ability to put in supplementaries by moving a handful of tees forward to bring the course below the tolerance for its assessed length. The tolerance was 100yards pre-WHS.

See Appendix G for the table of adjustments.

 

[Leftie5.6]

See Appendix G for the table of adjustments.

I’ve had a look. The adjustments between 100-300 yards are a nightmare.
Morning of comp. Greenkeepers mow and move medal blocks. Result course is 200 yards less than measured length.
Course rating goes down 0.9 and slope ratings by 2.
This has to be communicated to a bewildered membership struggling to understand wtf is going on with CR / SR / PH then apply mandatory 5% reduction for singles - oh, btw what the hell is my current HI? Now, knock 2 off the slope rating for the day!
Of course, this should be overcome by h/c sec getting a message from head Greenkeeper confirming the 200 yard reduction - but he’s only finished going round the course 1 hour after the first tee-offs in the comp. ?

 

[Leftie5.6]

I’ve had a look. The adjustments between 100-300 yards are a nightmare.
Morning of comp. Greenkeepers mow and move medal blocks. Result course is 200 yards less than measured length.
Course rating goes down 0.9 and slope ratings by 2.
This has to be communicated to a bewildered membership struggling to understand wtf is going on with CR / SR / PH then apply mandatory 5% reduction for singles - oh, btw what the hell is my current HI? Now, knock 2 off the slope rating for the day!
Of course, this should be overcome by h/c sec getting a message from head Greenkeeper confirming the 200 yard reduction - but he’s only finished going round the course 1 hour after the first tee-offs in the comp. ?

And, getting back on topic, is this really going to be done on a daily basis to build in to social rounds played for supp score purps? No.

 

[PJ87]

Pauljames87, I suspect the point has been made elsewhere however, the club can stifle the ability to put in supplementaries by moving a handful of tees forward to bring the course below the tolerance for its assessed length. The tolerance was 100yards pre-WHS.

Tees are in normal yellow position so long as we play off that and not whites surely fine

I agree ..he is so far out of his depth it's unreal

6th April and still no update on how we can put in cards

I'll just put them in myself. Maybe just email him every card afters just to annoy him

 

[wjemather]

I’ve had a look. The adjustments between 100-300 yards are a nightmare.
Morning of comp. Greenkeepers mow and move medal blocks. Result course is 200 yards less than measured length.
Course rating goes down 0.9 and slope ratings by 2.
This has to be communicated to a bewildered membership struggling to understand wtf is going on with CR / SR / PH then apply mandatory 5% reduction for singles - oh, btw what the hell is my current HI? Now, knock 2 off the slope rating for the day!
Of course, this should be overcome by h/c sec getting a message from head Greenkeeper confirming the 200 yard reduction - but he’s only finished going round the course 1 hour after the first tee-offs in the comp. ?

My understanding is that these adjustments are not to be applied ad-hoc on a daily basis, and require approval from the local authority. They are also for temporary course changes only, e.g. teeing ground refurbishment.

I suspect many courses are measured from the back of the teeing grounds and will need to be remeasured (and then rerated) in accordance with WHS rules and how they are actually setup.

 

[Leftie5.6]

My understanding is that these adjustments are not to be applied ad-hoc on a daily basis, and require approval from the local authority. They are also for temporary course changes only, e.g. teeing ground refurbishment.

I suspect many courses are measured from the back of the teeing grounds and will need to be remeasured (and then rerated) in accordance with WHS rules and how they are actually setup.

Wording in rules is ambivalent as to obligation to go through process and I’m sure you are correct that this is not going to be carried out on a daily basis. Understandably there has to be a check on reductions in length and seems to me EG / R&A cannot come up with a practical means of imposing a day-to-day check within the WHS system.

 

[wjemather]

Wording in rules is ambivalent as to obligation to go through process and I’m sure you are correct that this is not going to be carried out on a daily basis. Understandably there has to be a check on reductions in length and seems to me EG / R&A cannot come up with a practical means of imposing a day-to-day check within the WHS system.

"The Handicap Committee must notify the Authorized Association when temporary changes are being made to the golf course that may affect the Course Rating."

EG have devised a process for requesting changes through the county advisors.

 

[rulefan]

I’ve had a look. The adjustments between 100-300 yards are a nightmare.
Morning of comp. Greenkeepers mow and move medal blocks. Result course is 200 yards less than measured length.
Course rating goes down 0.9 and slope ratings by 2.
This has to be communicated to a bewildered membership struggling to understand wtf is going on with CR / SR / PH then apply mandatory 5% reduction for singles - oh, btw what the hell is my current HI? Now, knock 2 off the slope rating for the day!
Of course, this should be overcome by h/c sec getting a message from head Greenkeeper confirming the 200 yard reduction - but he’s only finished going round the course 1 hour after the first tee-offs in the comp. ?

Why are your greenkeepers allowed to make 200 yard cumulative adjustments. As an ex co-opted green keeper I can't see any agronomical need for it. For every 20 yards forward another tee or tees go 20 yards back.

 

[wjemather]

Why are your greenkeepers allowed to make 200 yard cumulative adjustments. As an ex co-opted green keeper I can't see any agronomical need for it. For every 20 yards forward another tee or tees go 20 yards back.

Many (if not most) courses have their permanent distance marker as far back on the teeing grounds as they can go - perhaps due to an obsession with length on the scorecard. As such, there is no going backwards to offset going forwards. With tees of the day commonly placed well in front of the permanent distance marker, it's easy to accumulate 200 yards difference. Per my earlier comment (#75) ideally courses would get rerated based on how they are actually setup from day-to-day, but clubs don't want to lose yardage from the scorecard.

Also note: "The front of a teeing area, as defined in the Rules of Golf, should not be placed more than 10 yards (10 metres) in front of, or behind, the relevant permanent distance marker on each hole."

 

[nickjdavis]

The tee placement on any given day isn't really a new problem though....it existed under Congu and I'm sure historically many supplementaries were submitted across the land from tees that were well over 100 yards shorter than the measured length of a course.