Standard of driving

[PJ87]

It is illegal to do so. There were a few cases in the last year or two and their 'excuse' was that there was an ambulance up their rear with sirens going. So they edged past the red light.
Judge didn't give a flying Feck.. no excuse.. you're done!
Apparently you have to wait till the light changes and then let them through.. never mind that someone may die as a result.

The law is really an ass!

Very important to know where the light cameras are! Had a plain clothes police car wizz up behind me blue lights on few years back, red light. I went through and blocked off the traffic coming from the side road . Got a thumbs up from the officer as he went past

Camera light would have got a ticket

 

[anotherdouble]

Are new drivers told what to do if an emergency vehicle is coming .
I have seen all ages and some havnt got a clue what to do.
Seen one who just refused to go through the red light to let an ambulance past.

I expect they are but I would presume telling is one thing but unless they are put under pressure in similar positions during their learning, no matter what they are told is not going to be of much use

 

[clubchamp98]

It is illegal to do so. There were a few cases in the last year or two and their 'excuse' was that there was an ambulance up their rear with sirens going. So they edged past the red light.
Judge didn't give a flying Feck.. no excuse.. you're done!
Apparently you have to wait till the light changes and then let them through.. never mind that someone may die as a result.

The law is really an ass!

I think we need some new judges ,that shows a complete lack of knowledge in the real world.
How many would just sit there until the lights changed that’s just not on.
Imagine being called to an inquest to why someone died and they concluded it was your fault for holding the ambulance up at the lights.
Some lights in Liverpool are on red for a long time ,the law needs amending.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I think we need some new judges ,that shows a complete lack of knowledge in the real world.
How many would just sit there until the lights changed that’s just not on.
Imagine being called to an inquest to why someone died and they concluded it was your fault for holding the ambulance up at the lights.
Some lights in Liverpool are on red for a long time ,the law needs amending.

The judges were right because they have no alternative but to find them guilty in law; the only exemption applies to emergency service vehicles. Their only alternative would be to show their utter contempt for the prosection by giving a sentence of an absolute discharge.

What you do need is some common sense amongst those dealing with the camera prosecution not to prosecute in these circumstances (assuming the photograph shows the blue light vehicle going through). If it could proved that the people went through the red light to let through a blue light vehicle then anyone involved in pushing the prosecution through deserves a bloody good arse kicking.

 

[bobmac]

The judges were right because they have no alternative but to find them guilty in law; the only exemption applies to emergency service vehicles. Their only alternative would be to show their utter contempt for the prosection by giving a sentence of an absolute discharge.

What you do need is some common sense amongst those dealing with the camera prosecution not to prosecute in these circumstances (assuming the photograph shows the blue light vehicle going through). If it could proved that the people went through the red light to let through a blue light vehicle then anyone involved in pushing the prosecution through deserves a bloody good arse kicking.

Another good reason to have a dashcam

 

[clubchamp98]

The judges were right because they have no alternative but to find them guilty in law; the only exemption applies to emergency service vehicles. Their only alternative would be to show their utter contempt for the prosection by giving a sentence of an absolute discharge.

What you do need is some common sense amongst those dealing with the camera prosecution not to prosecute in these circumstances (assuming the photograph shows the blue light vehicle going through). If it could proved that the people went through the red light to let through a blue light vehicle then anyone involved in pushing the prosecution through deserves a bloody good arse kicking.

Why not do that then.
you say they have no alternative then list an alternative.
It shows an utter lack of sense that the motorist has a legal choice , cost someone their life possibly or be done for running a red light.
I know the judges apply the law but I was on a jury once when the judge stopped the trial and just said.
“ this does not pass the threshold of evidence needed”
He told the foreman to say “ not guilty “ he did and that was it .
If judges have that discretion then they should use it more often.
After all the clue is in the name” Judge”

Plus all emergency vehicles I thought carry dashcams maybe they should use the footage to help people who tried to help them.
Not sure how easy it is to get that footage though as it must happen all the time to them!

 

[Blue in Munich]

Why not do that then.

I don't know, you'll have to ask them. I don't disagree that if the proof was there that they moved out of the way of an emergency service vehicle then they shouldn't have been prosecuted; whoever looked at that should have applied common sense at that point and dumped any thought of a prosecution there & then. But they didn't and the wheels are now in motion.

you say they have no alternative then list an alternative.

They have no alternative because the case is now before them; the listed alternative was to NOT put the case before them, or for the CPS to withdraw it but that alternative had passed so now they have to deal with it in accordance with the law.

It shows an utter lack of sense that the motorist has a legal choice , cost someone their life possibly or be done for running a red light.

Or a lack of a proper legal exemption under the circumstances; with the way prosecutions have moved on, the law has failed to keep up. There should be a legal defence available to anyone who does this, they should not have to reply on the common sense of the camera operator/reviewer. I am aware that at one time emergency service vehicle drivers were instructed to turn off twos & blues & sit in the queue if they would be forcing people to jump lights in order to let them through.

I know the judges apply the law but I was on a jury once when the judge stopped the trial and just said.
“ this does not pass the threshold of evidence needed”
He told the foreman to say “ not guilty “ he did and that was it .

Unfortunately for the motorists involved, photographic evidence of them passing through a red traffic light light signal with no legal exemption more than passes the threshold of evidence required. Therefore that option is not available to them.

If judges have that discretion then they should use it more often.
After all the clue is in the name” Judge”.

No. They. Don't; they do not have the discretion to throw out a case that clearly meets the evidence threshold. They can comment on the stupidity of the prosecution, or they can show their contempt for the prosecution by imposing the minimum sentence, but they cannot ignore the facts. merely weigh them. After all the clue is in the name” Judge”. They're not called "Make it up as we go alongs" or "Do as we likeys" which is what you are asking for here, however morally right we both think that would be.

Plus all emergency vehicles I thought carry dashcams maybe they should use the footage to help people who tried to help them.
Not sure how easy it is to get that footage though as it must happen all the time to them!

In my experience you thought wrong, although that may have changed. Hence the instruction referred to above.

 

[Backache]

I can understand the irritation with bad drivers but some of us just can't help it. No matter how hard I try sometimes I just can't hit a fairway.