Cyclist and highway code

[SammmeBee]

Millions of people cycle. Very few of them behave like this. Every single one of them is vulnerable to a moment's carelessness or red mist by those of us driving a motor vehicle.
Let's take a breath and consider a proportional response.

Sorry but you are just plain wrong…..

 

[Griffsters]

It sounds like a move towards 'Presumed Liability' that is widely used in Europe, very welcome and long overdue.

Edit: A good explanation I think: https://acso.org.uk/news/202012/presumed-liability-and-highway-code

 

[Brads]

Already here in Scotland and quite rightly so.
Too many people think that attempted murder is funny and acceptable.

Roads are not just for cars.

 

[Blue in Munich]

It sounds like a move towards 'Presumed Liability' that is widely used in Europe, very welcome and long overdue.

Edit: A good explanation I think: https://acso.org.uk/news/202012/presumed-liability-and-highway-code

Wrong & wrong; that is licence to behave like an arse and then point the finger at someone else.

There should be no presumptions about who is to blame before accident is investigated as it will lead to looking for evidence to support the presumption rather that following the evidence to find the fault.

 

[Griffsters]

Wrong & wrong; that is licence to behave like an arse and then point the finger at someone else.

There should be no presumptions about who is to blame before accident is investigated as it will lead to looking for evidence to support the presumption rather that following the evidence to find the fault.

The families of pedestrians and cyclists who have been killed and those with life changing injuries caused by a person 'behaving like an arse' in a vehicle, may disagree.

It better aligns the burden of proof so that victims are more likely to obtain justice. Our car culture has ingrained many perceived entitlements in drivers, its only to be expected that there will be some disagreement with change.

 

[clubchamp98]

Already here in Scotland and quite rightly so.
Too many people think that attempted murder is funny and acceptable.

Roads are not just for cars.

Attempted murder really.
I do lots of cycling and there are some .lunatics on bikes and in cars.
Its like they have had a brain transplant with the village idiot before setting off.

If you seen a few people with knives in the street would you go running in between them ? With no regard for your own safety.
Undertaking busses and lorries is suicidal.
That’s what some cyclists do, I have seen them with my own eyes ( had them shut by then).
Most car drivers are fine but you get the odd one whose just a dick.

 

[greenone]

Undertaking busses and lorries is suicidal.
That’s what some cyclists do.

Most dangerous situation I've been put in was when an artic decided to over take me whilst I was about 5 yds from a sharp 90deg left turn. Ended up with the bars under the trailer if I hadn't deliberately fallen off onto the pavement I'd have been flattened by the back wheels. 2 grand bike flattened, driver drove off, the company and the police not interested.

 

[Brads]

Attempted murder really.
I do lots of cycling and there are some .lunatics on bikes and in cars.
Its like they have had a brain transplant with the village idiot before setting off.

If you seen a few people with knives in the street would you go running in between them ? With no regard for your own safety.
Undertaking busses and lorries is suicidal.
That’s what some cyclists do, I have seen them with my own eyes ( had them shut by then).
Most car drivers are fine but you get the odd one whose just a dick.

Yup attempted murder really.
And attitudes that perpetually blame cyclists for getting killed.
Just like yours.

 

[srixon 1]

thousands of cyclists are seriously injured and in some case's killed on Britain's roads ever year by cars and lorries... how many cyclists kill motorists???
I think this should be the major concern, rather than motorisys thinking they are being hard done by.

Don’t know the details yet, but a 50 year old cyclist was killed by a car yesterday lunchtime on the main road into/out of town. There is a proper raised cycle path next to the road so I wouldn’t like to speculate what happened. The road has a 50 mph limit so the cyclist never stood much of a chance if he was hit at that speed by the car. A very sad day for all those affected.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yup attempted murder really.
And attitudes that perpetually blame cyclists for getting killed.
Just like yours.

Some cyclists not all.
Some are just dickheads with absolutely no road sense or any semblance of safety.
But you think my attitude is wrong , if you undertake a bus or lorry you are an absolute moron.
You might presume it’s the bus drivers fault but I don’t.

 

[clubchamp98]

Don’t know the details yet, but a 50 year old cyclist was killed by a car yesterday lunchtime on the main road into/out of town. There is a proper raised cycle path next to the road so I wouldn’t like to speculate what happened. The road has a 50 mph limit so the cyclist never stood much of a chance if he was hit at that speed by the car. A very sad day for all those affected.

I know some cyclists won’t use the cycle paths because they are full of crap, glass ,road debris.
They are just not looked after properly.
So they still use the road.
Until the powers that be are serious about cycling this will continue.

 

[greenone]

I know some cyclists won’t use the cycle paths because they are full of crap, glass ,road debris.
They are just not looked after properly.
So they still use the road.
Until the powers that be are serious about cycling this will continue.

I'm one of them.
They are generally not fit for purpose. Either in the gutter on the side of the road, in the door zone or segregated but forcing you to stop everytime you want to cross a side road.

 

[srixon 1]

I know some cyclists won’t use the cycle paths because they are full of crap, glass ,road debris.
They are just not looked after properly.
So they still use the road.
Until the powers that be are serious about cycling this will continue.

This particular cycle path is one of those that is shared by pedestrians. From my experience never a good thing, especially when the pedestrians do not keep to their part of the cycle path/pavement. However, you do get some cyclists that think it is ok to bomb along at stupid speeds on these shared paths also. I’m not trying to blame anyone here, but sometimes common sense should prevail.

 

[Brads]

Some cyclists not all.
Some are just dickheads with absolutely no road sense or any semblance of safety.
But you think my attitude is wrong , if you undertake a bus or lorry you are an absolute moron.
You might presume it’s the bus drivers fault but I don’t.

If you turn left in a bus or a lorry without being certain it’s clear you are a dangerous moron.
And it’s the bus or lorry drivers fault.

 

[AmandaJR]

If anyone's interested I've been sent the whole document with proposed changes - quite a heavy read for Xmas Day though!

 

[clubchamp98]

If anyone's interested I've been sent the whole document with proposed changes - quite a heavy read for Xmas Day though!

Let us know what you think !
I always thought the law didn’t presume anything and went purely on facts!

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Yup attempted murder really.
And attitudes that perpetually blame cyclists for getting killed.
Just like yours.

I'm a cyclist. I would never even think about undertaking any vehicle likely to turn left in front of me.
People have to take responsibility for their own actions rather than looking to blame someone else.

 

[Griffsters]

Its people that do stupid things regardless of their mode of transport. The roads are for all road users, not just vehicles

Discussion around cycling often ends up very tribal- once it moves away from that and about human decency things get a bit clearer.

 

[Backache]

Its people that do stupid things regardless of their mode of transport. The roads are for all road users, not just vehicles

Discussion around cycling often ends up very tribal- once it moves away from that and about human decency things get a bit clearer.

Absolutely people who are careless of others are likely to be careless of others whether in a car or a bike.

If people are cycling badly just be very grateful that they are cycling not driving, they would be far more dangerous in a car in the meantime by using a cycle rather than a car they are helping the environment and speeding everyone's journey and decreasing pollution.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The families of pedestrians and cyclists who have been killed and those with life changing injuries caused by a person 'behaving like an arse' in a vehicle, may disagree.

If the person in a vehicle is "behaving like an arse" then there already laws in place that deal with that sort of person after the incident. And if that sort of person is prepared to "drive like an arse" with laws already in place to deal with them then this change will likely make little or no change to their attitude.

It better aligns the burden of proof so that victims are more likely to obtain justice.

What this proposal does, if it becomes law, is make those "not behaving like an arse" liable for the accident, regardless of the fact they have done nothing wrong, unless they can prove otherwise. It doesn't better align the burden of proof; it turns the presumption of innocence, a basic tenet of English law, on it's head. That's a little more than a change in my book.

Our car culture has ingrained many perceived entitlements in drivers, its only to be expected that there will be some disagreement with change.

I have no issue with change for the better, but based on my experience I'm not seeing that here.

If you want to drive a car in this country, you have to obtain a provisional licence, pass a theory test & then a practical test. If you want to ride a motorcycle you have to undertake CBT, pass a theory test & pass a practical test. For PCV's & HGV's it's a medical (and ongoing regular medical tests), a theory test and a practical test; two practical tests for articulated vehicles, and a certificate of professional competence requiring ongoing training. And to ride a pedal cycle? Absolutely nothing; just buy a bike & off you go. Pedestrians; even less, just hope their parents or guardians did a good job.

Is the best way to protect our vulnerable road users installing presumed liability, or would a bit of compulsory training not go amiss? To identify the dangers and to attempt to keep them away from them, rather than give them a payout on the basis of presumed liability afterwards? How many of the cyclists on here have heard of the Exchanging Places programme; and of those, how many have undertaken one? It's an eye opener, quite literally. And if anyone has undertaken one, does the mat involved remind you of anything you've seen on the road...

That's not to say that driver training could not be improved, and shouldn't involve some ongoing retesting, but the ones with the most to gain in terms of safety and the most to lose in terms of injury should surely be the starting point. If you want to make cycling & walking safer, then the quickest & most direct way to influence it is to take the most vulnerable out of danger, rather than give them easier access to an insurance claim after the accident.