Stack and tilt: let's have a heated debate

[One Planer]

Agree with that. I almost think of the backswing move as a seesaw. As the right shoulder "drops" ie turns low, the right hip goes "up", ie the right knee straightens, and the hip turn is easier. In reality there is not so much up and down, it just feels like that. I think these two moves work sort of in harmony.

This is my point Monty.

For me, the main key in the backswing is getting the shoulder down. If you get this right, the right leg flex and hip movement take care of themselves. IMO the tilt forward is also semi covered here I.E if you conciously get your shoulder down your spine will naturally tilt towards the target?

The proof will be in the pudding over the coming months as the changes beging to become grooved.

 

[One Planer]

Further update:

Another round under H/c since moving back to S&T :cheers:

7 over front 9, mirrored by a 7 over back 9.

My eurkia moment came between our 3rd and 5th holes.

3rd hole: 6 Iron off the tee. Got the push, no draw.

4th Hole: Moved ball position back, open face. Over drew the ball by 5 yards (Missed green 5 yards left, 10yd push draw). Moved it too far back.

5th hole: 3 iron, Bang on :thup: . Trusted myself strated the ball out to the right (which is OOB) and got a gentle 5 yard draw into the fairway, past the dog leg, giving me a clear look at the hole. First time ever I've been there and made my approach so much easier.


I'm off to the range tonight to work on my shot cone!!! :thup:

 

[JustOne]

I'm off to the range tonight to work on my shot cone!!! :thup:

:whoo:

 

[One Planer]

Went to the range straight from work to work on my shot cone to try and see where I can improve (As the book suggests). 20 balls 5 balls with irons 6 through 9. All hit with a fractionally open face.

I haven't analyzed swing path vs shot shape before and was looking for some help interpreting the figures.

Starting flight direction:

Straight 9/20

Right 5/20

Left 6/20


Start + Flight (curve)

Left + Straight = 2 (Started just left of middle, went straight, missed target approx 5-10 yards to the left)
Left + Right = 0 (Hopefully this is good LOL)
Left + Left = 4 (hooks, lack of tempo + hip turn rather than lateral slide)

Straight + Straight = 1 (hit target green)
Straight + Left = 2 (pull draw?? Missed target green left 10-15 yards approx)
Straight + Right = 6 (started straight, gentle fade right. missed green 5 yards right)

Right + Straight = 1 (As with the left version. Started fractionally right and went straight. Missed target by approx same margin)
Right + Left = 2 whoo: Push draw. Hit green)
Right + Right = 2 (Push fade missed 15-20 yards right)

What i take from this is most of my shots are coming off the face either straight or out to the right (14 vs 6 lost left) with my only misses left coming from hooks or pull draws.

As for improving my shot cone. I think I should try and hit more from the inside, again with the face fractionally open to try and turn more of my straight starting shots to pushes?

As it stands, I believe my shot cone to be straight to about 10 yards to the right. Does this sound about right?

I'm trying to work back through the fault tree in the book, but it's making my brain hurt

Any opinions appreciated :thup:

 

[JustOne]

Move the ball back. Keep your head over the ball (or just behind it at impact).

 

[One Planer]

Move the ball back. Keep your head over the ball (or just behind it at impact).

Thanks for that James.

I was playing the 6 iron as prescribed (2 bakls inside left heel). I'm at the range again Thursday night. Would you advise moving all balls back as the pattern is similar across the club selection above?

 

[JustOne]

I would suggest moving the ball back until you get the desired ballflight. It doesn't matter if it ends up a ball or two behind center....!!

I'd suggest hitting 7-iron right out of the center of your stance to start with and see how your flight is. The ball needs to start a little to the right.. if it's still starting straight then you need to open the clubface just a fraction until you have the ballflight... you have the tools

For me I like to have my 6-iron pretty centered, 5-iron creeps a ball forward perhaps but that's just my swing and it ties in with MY clubface and swingpath. I like to have forward shaft lean... not toooooooo much, but I like to know it's there.

 

[One Planer]

I would suggest moving the ball back until you get the desired ballflight. It doesn't matter if it ends up a ball or two behind center....!!

I'd suggest hitting 7-iron right out of the center of your stance to start with and see how your flight is. The ball needs to start a little to the right.. if it's still starting straight then you need to open the clubface just a fraction until you have the ballflight... you have the tools

For me I like to have my 6-iron pretty centered, 5-iron creeps a ball forward perhaps but that's just my swing and it ties in with MY clubface and swingpath. I like to have forward shaft lean... not toooooooo much, but I like to know it's there.

Sounds similar to mine. I know in the pattern it suggests a little shaft lean which I have, but smilar to you not an excessive amount.

Thanks again. I'll add Thursdays results to tonights and see how they stack up.

 

[Region3]

Shot cone... good idea.

Here's mine

 

[Slime]

A couple of swing vids....at last.
Didn't have any idea just how bad my swing is......it's all over the place.
Bear in mind though, it was bloody freezing today.
Sometimes you go to the range & the swing feels okay.....today was NOT one of those days unfortunately.
Please be gentle if you can, rude if you must, but at all times........be honest.

[video=youtube_share;T3wNqCO81bw]http://youtu.be/T3wNqCO81bw[/video]


[video=youtube_share;q3NUfdK3n7s]http://youtu.be/q3NUfdK3n7s[/video]

If you hadn't worked it out, the balls were starting off slightly right & fading. Finishing around 25yds off target!
Thanks guys,

Slime.

P.S. I've assumed the position .

 

[JustOne]

Great quality vids!........................... the content however......


Just kidding! :ears:


OK, you are very unstable, there's a reason for that, you are not turning your hips properly. In the top vid you can see that your right hip doesn't turn and in fact your left hip does too much work as it comes very much forwards towards the ball (subsequently forcing your left kee to flex excessively and your heel to come off the ground)... in essence it's as if your left side is simply 'collapsing' into the ball.

Now I'm going to assume that you don't have any physical issues? At the moment you are really working your lower body a lot... it almost looks exhausting

Here's a thing..... stand with your back to a wall/door/table edge, in your setup posture, making sure your right butt ckeek is a good 2-3 inches away from it and your left foot is flared (pointing left 30-40°)... then make a turn so that you feel your right butt cheek is moving back and to the left behind you... it should touch the wall (in approximately the location your coccyx occupied before you started turning).

Your left foot should then remain flatter and because your foot is flared your left knee shouldn't be turning so much to the right (it points way behind the ball in the lower vid). At most your left knee should point at the ball, just in front of it a little would be better.


(note: take a look at your LEFT foot in the bottom vid - see how it spins out through impact? If that happens when you're spikes dig in you might damage your ankle! That's why you need to flare it open quite a bit at address, Hogan was a good 45°)

So hips and feet to start with :thup:

 

[chrisd]

That's why you need to flare it open quite a bit at address, Hogan was a good 45°)

After all those years of wrestling and the odd film he probably was quite flexible!


Chris

 

[Slime]

Looking at my vids this afternoon, wow, just a hint of an overswing then .
It looks like I'm using strangulation as my chosen method of attempted suicide. It's staggering what a swing video shows. I know I overswing a tad, I just didn't realise that a tad was so big!
And my legs................what the hell is that all about? A lot to work on methinks.
Funny thing is, I don't believe I behave like that with an iron in my hand.....but, then again.........
It's a case of feel versus real. Real wins every time.
Will keep you posted on my progress, may even slip another video in, for amusement purposes only you understand. I don't think many people will learn from these vids, but it shows how important it is to actually be able to see what's going on rather than just 'feeling' it.
All the best,

Slime.

 

[JustOne]

I know I overswing a tad, I just didn't realise that a tad was so big!
And my legs................what the hell is that all about? A lot to work on methinks.

The overswing (left elbow bending) and the head moving around will fix itself somewhat if you can make your lower half more stable. The bottom swing looks great... especially for someone your age

 

[Slime]

especially for someone your age

Slime.

 

[G1BB0]

just something I noticed although I am not of suitable ability to critique...

you may be a touch too far away or too upright as it looks like you are holding the driver a few inches too far in front (your arms appear to outstetched as opposed to hanging vertically) in vid 1 btw

apols if I am talking crap lol

 

[G1BB0]

here's one of my old swings just so you can rip me apart all being equal
(its not s&t either)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xIX87XGZTc[video=youtube;2xIX87XGZTc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xIX87XGZTc[/video] side on

[video=youtube;bma89ph0Ydg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bma89ph0Ydg[/video] DTL (look how wide that swing is haha)

 

[Foxholer]

S&T typically has a distinct deep left shoulder turn, with the head looking quite down (typically face hidden from view if wearing a baseball cap). Your shoulders are much more level than I would expect and your head (well chin) is higher than expected too.

Not sure when that should be addressed in relation to JO's drill. He's in a better 'position' to comment - or even contradict me.

 

[JustOne]

Mr Gibbs - that's the straightest left arm I've ever seen in golf! :thup: ... do you iron it?


Where's your latest swings?

 

[G1BB0]

I am gonna get my daughter to record a view hopefully at the weekend. Will be on crappy iphone tho, wish I could afford a decent high speed camera