Considering Stack & Tilt

[JustOne]

Staying centred over the ball is not SnT.

No? What's your theory?

Page 109: Halfway down through the swing - "The head is still in it's address position, over the ball (face-on view)"

Page 111: Impact - "With the SHOULDER CENTER OVER THE BALL and the hips pushing forward....."

Page 113: Follow through - "The head has remained in it's address position as the hips have slid forward...."

Maybe that's why you didn't get on with it..... head flapping about too much

 

[Ethan]

Staying centred over the ball is not SnT.

No? What's your theory?

Page 109: Halfway down through the swing - "The head is still in it's address position, over the ball (face-on view)"

Page 111: Impact - "With the SHOULDER CENTER OVER THE BALL and the hips pushing forward....."

Page 113: Follow through - "The head has remained in it's address position as the hips have slid forward...."

Maybe that's why you didn't get on with it..... head flapping about too much

If you have read the book, you will know that the tilt bit, including the hip correction needed to get back on a flatter path are rather tricky for the average golfer. I would be interested to see a video of your swing demonstrating that you do it properly.

 

[JustOne]

If you have read the book, you will know that the tilt bit, including the hip correction needed to get back on a flatter path are rather tricky for the average golfer.

It will be tricky if your head is flapping about all over the place

 

[bobmac]

Staying centred over the ball is not SnT.

I am a firm believer of keeping the body centred at the ball during the swing or as some people say...keep your head still.
I know thats not stack and tilt its just common sense.
If you sway away from the ball on the backswing, you have to lunge back to try and take a divot..........V. difficult.

 

[JustOne]

I am a firm believer of keeping the body centred at the ball during the swing or as some people say...keep your head still.
I know thats not stack and tilt its just common sense.
If you sway away from the ball on the backswing, you have to lunge back to try and take a divot..........V. difficult.

I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to take the bait..........

aaaarrrrggggh!

 

[Oggie41]

Thanks for all your responses.

The worrying thing is that not a single person has replied to say that their handicap has improved since using S&T.

Since posting I've also had a look at a few articles, and have read about many people struggling to hit their longer irons and drivers when using this swing. Have any of you also found this?

 

[JustOne]

The worrying thing is that not a single person has replied to say that their handicap has improved since using S&T.

Why is that worrying? There's only a couple of us here that use it.

There's more to a h/cap increase than the basic swing you are using mate. Hit it 330yds into the trees and your h/cap is going up.... thin it 150yds down the middle and you might make a par. When you are on the low end of the h/cap scale you'll probably understand that a bit better - try teeing it up knowing you only have 2 or 3 shots to play with.

I had a wrist injury throughout 2009 and am still nursing it now, I haven't been to the range in 6 months, I've only been on the practice ground for a total of 3 hours this year, I don't even play as often as I should and I've totally neglected my short game since buying Vokey's that I basically hated and spent a grand total of 1 hour on a putting green since having 4" chopped off my putter.... I still like to think I have a chance of shooting level par round Ascot next week

I was playing a round in Brighton with Murphthemog, he scorched a 4-iron 200+yds with a fantastic 5yd draw, he told me that he'd NEVER hit an iron like that before he switched to S&T - and I totally believe him. It really was a thing of beauty... so much so that I remember it now - and so does he I bet!

I wouldn't worry about distance either, few weeks ago I hit a 368yd drive at East Sussex National, at Homer's gaff the other week I hit 291yds on the flat (measured on Homer's GPS). What more could a man want? Topless babes on the course?

Like I said initially, I'm NOT a sales rep for S&T but I'd rather not waste another 16 years.

Whatever you decide try to commit to it 100%, there's nothing worse than doubt to make you hit a bad shot.

 

[Robobum]

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I don't care what anyone uses S&T, G&T, S&M to get the ball round, if it works for you and it gets the ball in the hole quickly [for you] then fill your boots.

IMO if you aspire to be as good as possible at anything then you are always going to look to people who are at the top of their chosen field. If you look at the top end of golf, on any professional tour or in the national amateur squads, in County squads etc you won't see stack & tilt, or certainly as rare as hen's tetth.

That either means that those that do choose it are forging a new path that will revolutionise golf for everyone or the top guys have had a look and found no benefit. As someone mentioned in another thread, if there was the smallest thing that gave the guys on tour an advantage then they would be all over it like a cheap suit so I am thinking it's the latter.

It's good to hear the tales of those that are doing it though and if it increases their enjoyment then more power to their stacking (or tilting) elbows.

 

[richy]

Reading alot of this I was thinking of trying this out. However I always try to keep my head over the ball and not sway to the right during the backswing having been told not to during a lesson.

Obviously you cant tell without seeing my swing but what are the differences in "stack and tilt".

Looking on the internet I dont "seem" to do anything differnt other than straightening the right leg (was told this was bad).

 

[Smiffy]

I hear Douglas Bader was a firm believer in S&T.

 

[JustOne]

If you look at the top end of golf, on any professional tour or in the national amateur squads, in County squads etc you won't see stack & tilt, or certainly as rare as hen's tetth.

That either means that those that do choose it are forging a new path that will revolutionise golf for everyone or the top guys have had a look and found no benefit. As someone mentioned in another thread, if there was the smallest thing that gave the guys on tour an advantage then they would be all over it like a cheap suit so I am thinking it's the latter.

In 1968 highjumpers used to go over the bar using a 'scissors' style jump, a straddle or a 'Western roll', and then along came a chap called Dick Fosbury. His technique of leading with the upper body, thereby increasing the leg thrust, truly changed the sport at the 1968 Mexico City Games.

Despite scepticism from judges and coaches, Fosbury cleared every height up to 2.22 metres without a miss and then achieved a personal record of 2.24 metres to win the gold medal.

By 1980, 13 of the 16 Olympic finalists were using the Fosbury flop.

That's 12 YEARS LATER and 3 people were still using the old method! There's always going to be those that simply won't believe anything they're told.

There are enough guys on tour already using stack and tilt to make it a viable option. The golf swing is about geometry and consistent ball striking, I couldn't care less if you stood on your head to hit the ball, if it was shown to be even more effective/consistent then it's only a matter of time....

If you are happy with your golf then the answer is simple - don't change anything. I wasn't happy with it so I changed, no big deal.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have to say having had a long discussion with James at Ascot where he broke S&T into basic components and explained it simply I can see the logic in it and how it can be a simple to achieve and repeatable action. I've been looking arthe left shoulder turn/right hip moving away and the initial set up position. I have to say there have been some wonderful strikes with some draw and definitely good distances without ever having felt like I hit at it.

I'm not sure I'm necessarily even using S&T but I'm going to give what I've tried a run out tomorrow with Pedro and see how it behaves on the course as opposed to the range.

 

[Robobum]

That just strengthens my point, Fosbury found something that was an improvement on what already existed so as soon as it was known everyone was clambering to be on the bandwagon.

S&T is out there but why aren't the masses flocking to try it??

This is a genuine question in realation to your point: Who are all these tour pros using S&T?

I'll say again, if it works for you - fill your boots, if I thought there was something in it I certainly would.

 

[RGDave]

If I may throw something totally left-field in here, the golf swings we see day to day these days are different from Hogan, Snead, Nicklaus, Faldo, etc. The theory and the action has changed.
If I watch a player like Padraig or Adam Scott, what I notice is the total change in theory about lateral movement compared to Faldo or Nicklaus (Faldo, pre and after D.L.)
They have some, but it's nothing like the old days.....
or am I not seeing something?
These may not be great examples, but they are swings I admire, but it's all about evolution.

2 years ago, I tried to learn to swing with almost no weight movement after seeing some really interesting golf videos on how to improve a consistent strike. These weren't the beginnings of S&T, no, but I got to the stage where my club was magically returning to a much smaller "zone" on the ground. I would have stuck with it, but felt I was losing distance off a tee peg.

I'd love to try S&T, but I wouldn't try it without a coach (pro) or mentor.

PS - in my round of 78 today, I had zero fats or thins, so a lateral movement swing can work.

 

[JustOne]

Robobum
That just strengthens my point, Fosbury found something that was an improvement on what already existed so as soon as it was known everyone was clambering to be on the bandwagon.

12 years later and people still weren't doing it even though every event was being won by people who were... which part of clambering is that?





Even if every single golf tournament was being won by S&T players it would probably take longer than 12-15 years for some to accept as the improvement isn't necessarily quite so apparent as the Fosbury flop which was more obviously better than the old way.

I would say that S&T has an incredible uptake considering how may people try to slate it without knowing much about it at all - these people are collectively known as SHEEP Too much internet and not enough groundwork



Picture the scene......

Your son Steve is 5 years old and swings a plastic club in the garden, you video it, everyone says it's brilliant, he's going to be the next Jack Nicklaus!

When he's 6 you take him on the course, buy him a set of cut down clubs when he's 7 and by his 8th birthday he's having lessons with the pro and has ajunior membership at your club.

On his 9th birthday he plays off 28, buy the time he's 10yrs he's won some junior comps, single figures is looming at 11 years and he's nearly off scratch by 12. 2 more years and he actually gets selected for the County. By the time he's 16 he wants to turn pro and does so when he's 17. He qualifies for some lower tours and plays those for a few years then his big breakthrogh comes when he's 21 and he make it onto the main tour - - - it's at this point that someone comes up to him and says...

"Steve, there's a new swing out there called Stack and Tilt, do you want to try it?"


Would YOU?



You know I think the fact that ANYONE on the tour has gone anywhere remotely near this swing is incredible, nothing short of a miracle. These people LIVE golf and have done all their lives, tens of 1000's of hours practicing only to embrace a new swing - just amazing.


It might not be for everyone but it's not going away. More people are tinkering with it all the time. More winners will come, people are integrating it into their swings all the time, even if it's only one piece at a time, but it IS helping people to understand the fundamentals of the game/swing and that ISN'T grip, posture or alignment.

Probably worth a few hours.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

If I may throw something totally left-field in here, the golf swings we see day to day these days are different from Hogan, Snead, Nicklaus, Faldo, etc. The theory and the action has changed.
If I watch a player like Padraig or Adam Scott, what I notice is the total change in theory about lateral movement compared to Faldo or Nicklaus (Faldo, pre and after D.L.)
They have some, but it's nothing like the old days.....
or am I not seeing something?
These may not be great examples, but they are swings I admire, but it's all about evolution.

2 years ago, I tried to learn to swing with almost no weight movement after seeing some really interesting golf videos on how to improve a consistent strike. These weren't the beginnings of S&T, no, but I got to the stage where my club was magically returning to a much smaller "zone" on the ground. I would have stuck with it, but felt I was losing distance off a tee peg.

I'd love to try S&T, but I wouldn't try it without a coach (pro) or mentor.

PS - in my round of 78 today, I had zero fats or thins, so a lateral movement swing can work.

Agreed, my head doesn't move laterally during my swing to the extent of Faldo, it stays practically still, it used to but I have been taught out of it. However, I still shift my weight onto my right side.

I'm not saying S&T is wrong, like I said earlier, I don't care what you swing like, but I can see why it works. The weight shift element of golf is the hardest part of the conventional swing to master so if you can find a swing that eliminates that then I can see why you'd be temtped. Personally I'm happy with my conventional swing.

 

[Robobum]

Robobum
That just strengthens my point, Fosbury found something that was an improvement on what already existed so as soon as it was known everyone was clambering to be on the bandwagon.

12 years later and people still weren't doing it even though every event was being won by people who were... which part of clambering is that?





Even if every single golf tournament was being won by S&T players it would probably take longer than 12-15 years for some to accept as the improvement isn't necessarily quite so apparent as the Fosbury flop which was more obviously better than the old way.

I would say that S&T has an incredible uptake considering how may people try to slate it without knowing much about it at all - these people are collectively known as SHEEP Too much internet and not enough groundwork



Picture the scene......

Your son Steve is 5 years old and swings a plastic club in the garden, you video it, everyone says it's brilliant, he's going to be the next Jack Nicklaus!

When he's 6 you take him on the course, buy him a set of cut down clubs when he's 7 and by his 8th birthday he's having lessons with the pro and has ajunior membership at your club.

On his 9th birthday he plays off 28, buy the time he's 10yrs he's won some junior comps, single figures is looming at 11 years and he's nearly off scratch by 12. 2 more years and he actually gets selected for the County. By the time he's 16 he wants to turn pro and does so when he's 17. He qualifies for some lower tours and plays those for a few years then his big breakthrogh comes when he's 21 and he make it onto the main tour - - - it's at this point that someone comes up to him and says...

"Steve, there's a new swing out there called Stack and Tilt, do you want to try it?"


Would YOU?



You know I think the fact that ANYONE on the tour has gone anywhere remotely near this swing is incredible, nothing short of a miracle. These people LIVE golf and have done all their lives, tens of 1000's of hours practicing only to embrace a new swing - just amazing.


It might not be for everyone but it's not going away. More people are tinkering with it all the time. More winners will come, people are integrating it into their swings all the time, even if it's only one piece at a time, but it IS helping people to understand the fundamentals of the game/swing and that ISN'T grip, posture or alignment.

Probably worth a few hours.

To be fair, seeing as though you don't regard yourself as a S&T salesman, that last post feels like you've been in my bungalow for the last 4hrs trying to sell me double glazing for the upsatirs windows!!??

Still got the same question: Who are these tour pros who are using S&T?

 

[Smiffy]

Why do I keep thinking of David Koresh and WACO?

 

[bobmac]

Why do I keep thinking of David Koresh and WACO?

Did he teach stack and tilt ?

 

[JustOne]

Why do I keep thinking of David Koresh and WACO?

You're right.............. heal yourselves!