Stack and tilt: let's have a heated debate

[Slime]

Hi people : Latest range session.

The aim for today was to see whether or not I could hit a hybrid......never owned one before.
Warmed up with short irons & then mid irons before moving to the 18° 3H hybrid.
Messed around with the loft & settled on 18° & hit it off the mat & off the rubber tee peg.
I found that most of my shots were starting straight and drawing left, sometimes quite a long way.
I experimented with ball position but settled on a spot 2" inside my left heel, I hope that's correct.
On a positive note, only 3 shots went slicey right, a vast improvement on my long irons pre S&T.
Those that went straight also went long, with many pitching at around the 200yds marker and a handful sailing over it, which I thought was promising with range balls on a cold day.
As I said earlier, I did have a tendancy to hit a lot of shots left & couldn't really work out why. I was experimenting with ball position & face angle at address...................a WIP methinks.
A long way to go yet.........but I think I'm getting there.
Only 16½ weeks to go.....☼ ☼ ☼

Slime.

 

[Region3]

This is not definitive, but just what I understand of S&T from what I've read and been told so far.

With the ball position forward of centre it's even more important to make sure your hips and weight get really forward in the downswing. If you hit the ball after the outside of the arc you're swinging on the club can be travelling out to in, and there's also a big danger of the clubface being closed to your target line. You only need one of those to be the case and you've got pulls, slices and maybe the odd hook thrown in.

Sounds like a promising start though

 

[JustOne]

This might be quite surprising to some... but here's Luke Donald (he's the world's No1 in case you didn't know!)

He's obviously not a S&T player as he weightshifts over to his right side somewhat.... but you have to take a look at the recovery..................




1st pic: nearly at the top... weight on the right look at the grass lines behind his LEFT hip

2nd pic: At the top... now look at those grass lines..... (that's sliding the hips in transition)

3rd pic: Impact.. the hips have gone even more left... and with a vertical line drawn up from the ball you might be surprised just how much of him is in FRONT of the ball.....!!!




If he can do it moving right then you might think it would be easier when you dont........

 

[JustOne]

Another quick one.. 6-iron: watch Mickelsons leading hip and how it keeps going towards the target, even before the backswing has finished, right through to impact (note the hand position at impact! )

[video=youtube;xWYEQS1yrtg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWYEQS1yrtg[/video]

 

[One Planer]

Update:

I've been, with James' input been working on my posture at address. My main reason for this was I felt I was holding too much weight on the left at address and it was causing issues.

Here's my original posture:

Here's my posture as of 25/1

My feet flaring it still a work in process but they are more flared than usual.

Less tilting in my shoulders and a little more flex in the knees. Feels more comfortable over-all

 

[Smiffy]

Who cuts your hair Gareth????? I'd sue 'em mate ;-)

 

[One Planer]

Who cuts your hair Gareth????? I'd sue 'em mate ;-)

Judging by your avatar Smiffy, the same chap as does yours :thup:

:rofl:

I'm due a trim actually. Off to the bath with some shaving foam and a razor

 

[Slime]

Driver session.
Oh dear.......I have some issues.
First hit, after warming up with irons, was long & straight, it was the only one .
A few were horribly low & left but most of them were high & right.......very high & very right!
They set off slightly right before veering off whilst going very high. I guess my clubface is open at impact & my swing is out to in, please advise if that's not the case guys.
I played aroud with ball position but I don't think that's my problem.
I was aware that I often finished my follow through with most of my weight on my back (right) foot.
I'm also well aware that I'm overswinging wildly. I've had this fault all my golfing life but just can't seem to correct it and it's really pi$$ing me off now!
Please could someone advise me of any drills to stop me overswinging, once I've sorted that out maybe the rest will have half a chance of falling into place.
Will post a video of my swing as soon as I can.
Thanks for listening,

Slime.

P.S. Still convinced S&T is the way forward for me.................I'm not going to give up on this.

 

[chris661]

I find that the best ball position is just inside my left heel but with my hands more neutral rather than pressed forward slightly. Was working a treat for me last time out.

 

[JustOne]

I'm also well aware that I'm overswinging wildly. I've had this fault all my golfing life but just can't seem to correct it and it's really pi$$ing me off now!
Please could someone advise me of any drills to stop me overswinging, once I've sorted that out maybe the rest will have half a chance of falling into place.

Put a teepeg under your right armpit.. every time it falls out when you swing you send me £1

Fixed.




Have sent you a PM.

 

[Slime]

Put a teepeg under your right armpit.. every time it falls out when you swing you send me £1
Fixed.

And every time it doesn't I'll invoice you for £1 :ears: .
Thanks for the tip fella, will give it a go next range trip.

Slime.

 

[Region3]

Put a teepeg under your right armpit.. every time it falls out when you swing you send me £1

And every time it doesn't I'll invoice you for £1 :ears: .
Thanks for the tip fella, will give it a go next range trip.

Slime.

Don't do it. It's impossible! :angry:
If feels like swinging in a straight-jacket.


James has probably said this in his PM, but if not then I'm probably wrong.

By finishing on your back foot (which you obviously know is very naughty) it sounds to me like you're worried about the lack of loft and trying to lean back to help the ball into the air.

Starting a little right is a good thing, going further right just means you aren't swinging enough in to out.
I'm struggling with this too. The best I've (consistently) managed is start a little right and fly straight, so just a little more in to out required. Flaring the foot out is going to help, and I think most of my problem is not dropping the club behind me enough on the way down.

I found this video on Youtube which I'm going to try the drill and see if it helps. It appears to lower the club instantly on to the right plane to come in at.

[video=youtube;QL_6M_xZvq0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0[/video]

 

[G1BB0]

maybe swinging too fast?

slow it down and 3/4 swing see if that helps

 

[JustOne]

Slime, how far are you trying to hit your driver? for a good drive and an average drive?

What shot shape are you trying to play? and with how much curve?

 

[Slime]

Slime, how far are you trying to hit your driver? for a good drive and an average drive?

What shot shape are you trying to play? and with how much curve?

I'd be happy with a distance of 240yds, preferably somewhere on the short stuff.
Anything longer than 250yds, if it's in play, would be a good drive with the very occasional 270yds drive, this I would regard as exceptional, (and probably downhill with the wind behind), but accuracy is more important than distance.
As I'm trying to learn S&T I'm looking for a slight draw, in an ideal world, but this happens very rarely. Most of my good drives tend to start straight & then fly fairly straight or pull left 10/15 yards. I can't seem to get draw on them. Check out post #208 of this thread for how my driver fared on the golf course. Range sessions since then have been absolute trash.
As a point of reference I generally carry around 155yds with a 7 iron.
Thanks mate,

Slime.

 

[One Planer]

A quick question for you knowledgeable folk.

As I've said in previous threads, getting the ball flight (push draw) required is one aspect I've been struggling with. I know my hands aren't moving in enough on the backswing.

In the book, am I right in saying the movement that starts the backswing is the shoulder down movement? If so do the hands and arms remain passive?

If this is true, this is what I HAVEN'T been doing

 

[Monty_Brown]

Just saw an interesting tweet from Denis Pugh on Twitter. He was asked which young coaches impress him as coaching stars for the future. His answer was James Ridyard, one of the few S&T officially endorsed coaches in the UK.

Not trying to create propaganda, but interesting to see S&T exponents gaining credibility among established coaches. I draw no further conclusions than that.

 

[Monty_Brown]

QUOTE: Gareth "one aspect I've been struggling with. I know my hands aren't moving in enough on the backswing."


I find this hard as well. I try some backswings when it feels to be stupidly far inside, but then watch it back and it still isn't in the deep hands position that the theory recommends. It's hard. Might see if I can find any drills for this and report back.

 

[One Planer]

QUOTE: Gareth "one aspect I've been struggling with. I know my hands aren't moving in enough on the backswing."

I find this hard as well. I try some backswings when it feels to be stupidly far inside, but then watch it back and it still isn't in the deep hands position that the theory recommends. It's hard. Might see if I can find any drills for this and report back.

I've found Monty, after re-reading the book, that If I focus on gettig the shoulder down the movement of the arms in the back swing becomes passive and is hands in. I'm going to get a video on the course tomorow to try and see if they're in as much as they feel.

Another thing I've noticed, while focusing on getting the shoulder down is how much more of a hip turn I have. Before I felt like I was resisting with my hip, doing this it "feels" like the right hip clears on the back swing as my right leg straightens.

 

[Monty_Brown]

Another thing I've noticed, while focusing on getting the shoulder down is how much more of a hip turn I have. Before I felt like I was resisting with my hip, doing this it "feels" like the right hip clears on the back swing as my right leg straightens.

Agree with that. I almost think of the backswing move as a seesaw. As the right shoulder "drops" ie turns low, the right hip goes "up", ie the right knee straightens, and the hip turn is easier. In reality there is not so much up and down, it just feels like that. I think these two moves work sort of in harmony.