Speed limit changes?

[clubchamp98]

Why should they; there's already 30mph signs each end & street lighting if I'm reading it correctly? They only need 30mph signs if the streetlights are more than 200 yards apart.

See post 17 this is why.
Happend to my son, waste of court time all they have to do is change the signs you have no excuse then.

Council still went to court even though they knew they would lose , must have cost 10 times more than the cost of the signs.

 

[Blue in Munich]

See post 17 this is why.
Happend to my son, waste of court time all they have to do is change the signs you have no excuse then.

Council still went to court even though they knew they would lose , must have cost 10 times more than the cost of the signs.

I did see post 17, it describes a completely different set of circumstances to the OP; perhaps you could point out the incoming side roads in the original post, I must have missed them. If it is a speeding prosecution it won't be the council taking anyone to court as far as I'm aware. And it won't be the first time a Magistrates Court has got it wrong, which is why so many decisions are overturned at Crown Court. Other than that you're absolutely right. :thup:

 

[anotherdouble]

In post 17 I take it the side road the driver was emerging from was 40mph and therefore if there were no 30 signs towards the end of the minor road, the driver was well within his rights to believe the major road was still 40mph. However if the minor road was 30mph then no signs would have to be in situ to indicate the major road they were turning into was any other speed other than 30, even if it used to be 40. But in that instance it would have been courteous and safer of the local authority to advertise the change.

 

[Crazyface]

Prescott bypass has gone from 60 to 40mph because they put lights at the safari park .
Most have took no notice and just stick to 80 as usual.
They have put up new signs though.

LOL

 

[PIng]

They should replace the 40 mph signs with 30mph signs to warn you of the change .

Don't be silly - how can the police extort money from local residents, who are used to it being a 40mph zone, if they warn them about the change?

 

[clubchamp98]

I did see post 17, it describes a completely different set of circumstances to the OP; perhaps you could point out the incoming side roads in the original post, I must have missed them. If it is a speeding prosecution it won't be the council taking anyone to court as far as I'm aware. And it won't be the first time a Magistrates Court has got it wrong, which is why so many decisions are overturned at Crown Court. Other than that you're absolutely right. :thup:

But it Dosnt say there are no side roads .
I assume without a map there must be some side roads somewhere on this road.
so if you join this road with no signs you must asses it as 30mph , but all those who knew it was 40mph might not know of the change.
How hard is it to put new signs on the existing posts they must have some old ones knocking about in the council yards.
Sounds just like penny pinching to me , just needs doing properly in the first place.

 

[Blue in Munich]

But it Dosnt say there are no side roads .
I assume without a map there must be some side roads somewhere on this road.
so if you join this road with no signs you must asses it as 30mph , but all those who knew it was 40mph might not know of the change.
How hard is it to put new signs on the existing posts they must have some old ones knocking about in the council yards.
Sounds just like penny pinching to me , just needs doing properly in the first place.

Nor did it say there were so I worked on what we were given. I was also told that when you assume you tend to end up making an ass of u & me……….

The placing of the signs is governed by the Traffic Signs Manuals, which, from memory and in my opinion, have made an absolute pigs ear of something that used to be dead simple in the case of changes of speed limit. Used to be a simple gateway treatment but not any more, but I fully agree they should be signed properly, and maybe they are…...

Any change of speed limit should be signed in accordance with them, but they actually advise against, if not prohibit, signing 30 mph limits where there are street lights to avoid a proliferation of signs. I understand your point that those that knew it was a 40 mph might prefer to see some 30 mph signs, but should they not notice the removal of the 40 mph repeaters signs? That there are no other signs should reinforce that it is a 30 mph limit.

 

[clubchamp98]

Nor did it say there were so I worked on what we were given. I was also told that when you assume you tend to end up making an ass of u & me……….

The placing of the signs is governed by the Traffic Signs Manuals, which, from memory and in my opinion, have made an absolute pigs ear of something that used to be dead simple in the case of changes of speed limit. Used to be a simple gateway treatment but not any more, but I fully agree they should be signed properly, and maybe they are…...

Any change of speed limit should be signed in accordance with them, but they actually advise against, if not prohibit, signing 30 mph limits where there are street lights to avoid a proliferation of signs. I understand your point that those that knew it was a 40 mph might prefer to see some 30 mph signs, but should they not notice the removal of the 40 mph repeaters signs? That there are no other signs should reinforce that it is a 30 mph limit.

The problem here is 50% of drivers would not see the signs as they are on the phone.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The problem here is 50% of drivers would not see the signs as they are on the phone.

Not sure we can blame the council for that one.

 

[clubchamp98]

Not sure we can blame the council for that one.

Agreed

 

[Blue in Munich]

Nor did it say there were so I worked on what we were given. I was also told that when you assume you tend to end up making an ass of u & me……….

The placing of the signs is governed by the Traffic Signs Manuals, which, from memory and in my opinion, have made an absolute pigs ear of something that used to be dead simple in the case of changes of speed limit. Used to be a simple gateway treatment but not any more, but I fully agree they should be signed properly, and maybe they are…...

Any change of speed limit should be signed in accordance with them, but they actually advise against, if not prohibit, signing 30 mph limits where there are street lights to avoid a proliferation of signs. I understand your point that those that knew it was a 40 mph might prefer to see some 30 mph signs, but should they not notice the removal of the 40 mph repeaters signs? That there are no other signs should reinforce that it is a 30 mph limit.

if you can't sleep, this might help…….

http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsm/tsm-chapter-03.pdf

Section 14.21 provides the the answer to the bolded bit, they are prohibited from using 30 mph repeater signs where there are street lights.

 

[jdpjamesp]

Thanks everyone. I've done further reading and it seems I'm not alone in my confusion, but it is confirmed the limit has changed. I doubt people who use the road regularly will notice. It's taken me a week to notice. Just hope I don't have a surprise in the post. Although I'll fight it if there is.

 

[ScienceBoy]

Thanks everyone. I've done further reading and it seems I'm not alone in my confusion, but it is confirmed the limit has changed. I doubt people who use the road regularly will notice. It's taken me a week to notice. Just hope I don't have a surprise in the post. Although I'll fight it if there is.

From experience it takes a while.

A road near me changed from 40 to 30 ahead of a new building development. No other reason so it looked like for nothing other than a new road layout initially.

I did 30 down it as I knew I should be (wasn’t a local at the time) and locals kept overtaking me in droves.

Settled down now but took a year or so.

 

[rudebhoy]

I got done last year down in Scarborough. Was on a link road between two built up areas, this road is about a mile and a half long, nice and wide, with no buildings of any sort on either side. No speed signs but street lights.

i had driven on that road loads of times and assumed it was a 50 or a 60 zone. I got caught doing 40 by a van hidden behind some trees.

I was amazed to find out it was a 30 zone. I went on a speed awareness course as a result. They showed pictures of various road layouts and asked the attendees to write down what they thought the speed limit was for each one.

for the picture which corresponded to my scenario, I was the only one out of the dozen or so attendees to get it right, the rest of the answers varied between 40 and 70.

 

[Tashyboy]

I got done last year down in Scarborough. Was on a link road between two built up areas, this road is about a mile and a half long, nice and wide, with no buildings of any sort on either side. No speed signs but street lights.

i had driven on that road loads of times and assumed it was a 50 or a 60 zone. I got caught doing 40 by a van hidden behind some trees.

I was amazed to find out it was a 30 zone. I went on a speed awareness course as a result. They showed pictures of various road layouts and asked the attendees to write down what they thought the speed limit was for each one.

for the picture which corresponded to my scenario, I was the only one out of the dozen or so attendees to get it right, the rest of the answers varied between 40 and 70.

As previously mentioned I have been on a couple of those courses. One of the things mentioned was that most accidents happen on rural roads. But when you have country lanes that automatically become national speed limits when you would struggle to drive down them safely at 30, then it becomes a joke. The whole system needs a shake up.

 

[clubchamp98]

All I was saying was there must have been signs to change from 30 to 40 then back from 40 to 30mph
All they had to do is replace the 40mph signs with 30mph signs and that's sorted.

As in another thread most people's standard of driving is poor so expecting them to know speed limits by how many lamp posts are there is not working .

 

[Imurg]

As previously mentioned I have been on a couple of those courses. One of the things mentioned was that most accidents happen on rural roads. But when you have country lanes that automatically become national speed limits when you would struggle to drive down them safely at 30, then it becomes a joke. The whole system needs a shake up.

You're falling into the trap that most fall into regarding the "National Limit"
Just because you are allowed to do 60 it doesn't mean that you automatically should.
The National Limit allows to find a safe speed for the road you're driving on, up to and including the limit.
That may be 20 or even less on single track lanes with passing places, it could mean 60 on a straight piece of decent road...

 

[ScienceBoy]

The National Limit allows to find a safe speed for the road you're driving on, up to and including the limit.

I get that, the queue of cars behind me don't.

I'm only going to drive at a speed I feel safe at.

 

[NorfolkShaun]

I was driving home from work the other day and noticed some 20 signs had gone up.

There does seem a real influx round here of 20 mph zones, people really seem to ignore these. I have tried driving at 20 through them but just end up getting tailgated. Very frustrating, my wife did see a mobile speed gun in one the other day.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I was driving home from work the other day and noticed some 20 signs had gone up.

There does seem a real influx round here of 20 mph zones, people really seem to ignore these. I have tried driving at 20 through them but just end up getting tailgated. Very frustrating, my wife did see a mobile speed gun in one the other day.

Unless something has changed she shouldn't have because the speeds should either have been that low before it was changed that it wouldn't need enforcement or they should have built in sufficient engineering measures to keep the speeds down and thus again shouldn't need enforcement.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/63975/circular-01-2013.pdf

Paragraph 85.