Appeal against speeding fine

[CliveW]

A couple of years back I was on the M62 on the Manchester side of Birchwood travelling West, it was February and the sun was setting. I was travelling about 65 miles an hour in amongst a steady stream of traffic in all the lanes. Everything ahead was clear and I went under one of the speed camera stanchions. The thing started going off like a scatter gun across all the lanes behind me. I suspect it had just been switched on because you could not of missed this going off as I approached it. Spent the next two weeks watching the mail but nothing happened. Is there any leeway given on these things so that people get a chance to react?

According to websites,
9. What happens if the speed limit displayed on the electronic signage on the overhead gantry changes as a vehicle approaches?

When the speed limit changes on the electronic signage on overhead gantries there is a 60 second pause in live operation of the HADECS camera system. Live operation then recommences based on the new displayed speed limit. The system incorporates a camera that records the speed limit displayed on the gantry at the time of the offence and this is included in the offence record.

 

[Deleted member 35927]

Been keeping that one in the bank, she did say that at one stage she couldn't see the headlights in the mirror

That's definitely on the list of non excuses.

 

[cliveb]

It is not safe to exceed 30 mph driving through a town or village. Many places have gone to 20 mph because of this. A great move in my opinion.

I don't think you've answered my question.

Although I suppose you might be suggesting that 30 mph is the maximum safe speed in town in good conditions. In which case, what is being done to prosecute those who exceed 25 mph when conditions are bad, and are therefore driving unsafely?

 

[KenL]

I don't think you've answered my question.

Although I suppose you might be suggesting that 30 mph is the maximum safe speed in town in good conditions. In which case, what is being done to prosecute those who exceed 25 mph when conditions are bad, and are therefore driving unsafely?

Nothing, as that would be impossible to administer unless an accident was witnessed.

 

[Backache]

I don't think you've answered my question.

Although I suppose you might be suggesting that 30 mph is the maximum safe speed in town in good conditions. In which case, what is being done to prosecute those who exceed 25 mph when conditions are bad, and are therefore driving unsafely?

There is necessarily a degree of arbitrariness in both the imposition and enforcement of speed limits.
No one limit is absolutely safe with no risk to other road users.
It is also not readily practical to enforce the speed limits that do exist at all times.
I suspect most people on this forum have not been caught speeding on at least 99% of occasions on which they have been speeding.
However I suspect if you drive at 25mph w towards a protest or procession and angering those participants you would be prosecuted.

 

[Imurg]

There's a fault in the driving test called Inappropriate use of speed.
It could be a 30 limit, you could be doing 29mph but if it's too fast for the situation - squeezing through a gap, making a turn etc - then you can fail
The speed limt is simply that...a limit.
Circumstances will dictate whether that limit is safely achievable or not.
Judgement of those circumstances, sadly lacking in many, is what should determine your speed.

 

[AliMc]

There's a fault in the driving test called Inappropriate use of speed.
It could be a 30 limit, you could be doing 29mph but if it's too fast for the situation - squeezing through a gap, making a turn etc - then you can fail
The speed limt is simply that...a limit.
Circumstances will dictate whether that limit is safely achievable or not.
Judgement of those circumstances, sadly lacking in many, is what should determine your speed.

Your 100% correct Imurg
Both my son and daughter have had lessons and passed their tests in the last 3 years. For context I passed my test a long time ago, 1975 in fact, when things were obviously very different, less cars on the road, traffic generally moving slower overall etc but I have to say I was surprised at the way they were both being taught to drive. I'm not in any way blaming the instructor but it's maybe just the way things have naturally moved on. It's difficult to explain exactly what I mean and I could be completely wrong here but it's almost as if they're being taught to drive as close to the road limit as they can (to avoid holding other folk up) and tbh i don't know why they even bother fitting cars with a handbrake now. But maybe it's just me getting old and grumpy !

 

[nickjdavis]

There's a fault in the driving test called Inappropriate use of speed.
It could be a 30 limit, you could be doing 29mph but if it's too fast for the situation - squeezing through a gap, making a turn etc - then you can fail
The speed limt is simply that...a limit.
Circumstances will dictate whether that limit is safely achievable or not.
Judgement of those circumstances, sadly lacking in many, is what should determine your speed.

Out of interest...Is there ever a case for "appropriate use of speed", that might see a driver exceeding a speed limit, in order to avoid a "situation" that he can see developing?

 

[clubchamp98]

Out of interest...Is there ever a case for "appropriate use of speed", that might see a driver exceeding a speed limit, in order to avoid a "situation" that he can see developing?

Maybe an emergency vehicle behind you with no passing places.
But imagine that’s quite rare.
But have heard of drivers getting tickets for going through red lights to let one through that’s wrong imo.

 

[KenL]

When I was learning in 1982, my instructor told me to get close to the speed limit in order to help the traffic flow.

 

[nickjdavis]

Maybe an emergency vehicle behind you with no passing places.
But imagine that’s quite rare.
But have heard of drivers getting tickets for going through red lights to let one through that’s wrong imo.

That's the scenario I was largely thinking of and has happened to me on several occasions over the years.

 

[Billysboots]

There's a fault in the driving test called Inappropriate use of speed.
It could be a 30 limit, you could be doing 29mph but if it's too fast for the situation - squeezing through a gap, making a turn etc - then you can fail
The speed limt is simply that...a limit.
Circumstances will dictate whether that limit is safely achievable or not.
Judgement of those circumstances, sadly lacking in many, is what should determine your speed.

It used to be a favourite line of mine when I dealt with some drivers - it’s a speed limit, not a target.

 

[AliMc]

When I was learning in 1982, my instructor told me to get close to the speed limit in order to help the traffic flow.

I wonder if there are still instructors around who tell folk to drive at 40 mph everywhere !

 

[KenL]

It used to be a favourite line of mine when I dealt with some drivers - it’s a speed limit, not a target.

That’s not sarcastic or condescending at all!

 

[clubchamp98]

That's the scenario I was largely thinking of and has happened to me on several occasions over the years.

Not so rare then

Imo this needs addressing in learning to drive.
An awful lot of people don’t know what to do when blue lights are behind them.!
Especially at traffic lights ,some of the antics are dangerous.

 

[Billysboots]

That’s not sarcastic or condescending at all!

It very much depended on the attitude of the driver!

 

[Imurg]

Out of interest...Is there ever a case for "appropriate use of speed", that might see a driver exceeding a speed limit, in order to avoid a "situation" that he can see developing?

Not sure and it would be very unlikely.
The examiner would, probably, take the view that they shouldn't get themselves into the situation in the first place and that hitting the gas is rarely the "safe" way out.
It's situation dependent. We always used to say that as soon as the examiner used the dual controls that was it....but I had a guy who was dualled by the examiner and still passed because , as the examiner explained, there was no way the driver could see what was about to happen due to his view being obstructed. He was trying to get past a badly parked van and was edging out but couldn't see the car pulling out from behind the van..the examiner did and hit the brake.
They can use a bit of discretion so hitting the gas could, in theory, be OK but they don't like it as a way out.

 

[AliMc]

When I was learning in 1982, my instructor told me to get close to the speed limit in order to help the traffic flow.

Get that Ken but asking learners who are doing 26 or 27 in a 30 why they're not doing 30 isn't sensible for me

 

[Deleted member 35927]

Not so rare then

Imo this needs addressing in learning to drive.
An awful lot of people don’t know what to do when blue lights are behind them.!
Especially at traffic lights ,some of the antics are dangerous.

I live by a hospital with lights nearby, if the lights are red and cars there , the ambulance usually just goes on the other side of the road.

 

[Imurg]

Maybe an emergency vehicle behind you with no passing places.
But imagine that’s quite rare.
But have heard of drivers getting tickets for going through red lights to let one through that’s wrong imo.

On test you would only get away with it if the examiner directed you to do it.