(Sorry this has been done to death) The solution to slow play is slow play

[Deleted member 15344]

I guess that 18 different groups filling up the course will all have their own answer - I wasn't talking about my own golf in the post.

So isn't the answer to what you posted - everyone needs to be aware of other people on the course and ensure their actions don't cause a negative impact on others and the rest of the field ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Its only a minority spoiling it for the rest where slow play in concerned.

One of the main problems is the slow ones don't Know or think they are slow. I know half a dozen guys at my club who are the worst offenders when it comes to slow play and none of them think they are slow.



Course marshals is the main one that would make a difference at my club.

Exactly. It's always someone else to blame and that's never going to change. Course marshals seem limited use, certainly the ones I've seen

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil i'm really interested in your ideas for helping with slow play wether world wide or on your course because for some slow play is a reason they dislike golf or don't play because it takes too long.

Most peoples problems like bags the wrong side of the green or PSR or marking cards on greens would actually only save minutes on a round which in all honesty makes little difference,no difference to a group going a whole round without needing to look for a ball to a group that's spends 5 minutes looking for one.

To me it would have to be the bigger picture where rounds are taking 4 1/2 to 5 hours instead of the 4 hours they should be taking.

I have played a few 5 hours round which I have actually enjoyed and a couple where its been so slow you stand there pulling your hair out.

One example was in a 4bbb comp and the problem was purely down to a backlog on a hole where it was too dangerous to tee off because the next tee was to close to the green,that obviously is poor course design.
The same as when you get tee's to close to greens where you have to wait for each other to play,these 2 scenario's will slow a whole course down a way sight more than any of the previous I mentioned so its not always the obvious one's that people think it is.

The only thing you can do is pass on your extensive knowledge to your playing partners and your club members and hope they adhere to basic rules of etiquette to keep things moving the best they can and then its up to people who see stuff on the course that could have an effect to educate others.

This sums it up exactly for me - responsibility not just on the player as well

http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Etiquette/Pace-of-Play

 

[pokerjoke]

This sums it up exactly for me - responsibility not just on the player as well

http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Etiquette/Pace-of-Play

Good link because this really is the bigger picture.

It really is quite easy to blame what you see right in front of you as apposed to things you cant see that are actually having a bigger effect on the whole course.
The course set up on the day also can have a massive effect on the whole round like high rough or extremely tough pin positions and it really comes down to everybody doing a good job to make the course playable from the greenkeepers upwards.

A tough course can easily be set up for a 4 hour round and made into a 5 hour course quite simply and often is for big open comps or a big medal comp.

 

[Whereditgo]

Strangely (to me anyway) the 3 most often quoted causes of slow I rarely see on the course:

1 - Marking cards on the green.....almost never see anyone marking a card on the green after all the group have completed the hole.

2 - Bags left on the wrong side of the green......yes it happens, but rarely and even when it does its usually once a round when someone isn't thinking ahead.

3 - Handicaps.......from my experiences, handicap (complete beginners aside) has no bearing whatsoever on slow play, low handicappers can be slow, medium handicappers can be slow and so can high handicappers.

I do tend to agree with the OP, in that when the course is full and moving slowly it's better for ones own state of mind to accept it and play to the pace of the course, that's how I read the OP, not that he was accepting or even condoning slow play, just that on a given day there is not a lot one single group can do to change the situation.

I've played a fair bit of golf abroad with numerous nationality's and strangely the Brits seem to have a reputation (rightly or wrongly) amongst others for wanting to race round in the shortest time possible.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Good link because this really is the bigger picture.

It really is quite easy to blame what you see right in front of you as apposed to things you cant see that are actually having a bigger effect on the whole course.
The course set up on the day also can have a massive effect on the whole round like high rough or extremely tough pin positions and it really comes down to everybody doing a good job to make the course playable from the greenkeepers upwards.

A tough course can easily be set up for a 4 hour round and made into a 5 hour course quite simply and often is for big open comps or a big medal comp.

It is a good link and it's something our GK and Golf Director are aware off and myself as Comps guy in regards the setting up and the timings

The length of time to play isn't IMO the issue - a five hour round is no issue - it's what happens when it should be a 4 hour round but is a 5 hour round because one or two groups early in the comp play slowly - don't keep up with the group in front and that then filters through the field and impacts everyone

 

[3565]

Strangely (to me anyway) the 3 most often quoted causes of slow I rarely see on the course:

1 - Marking cards on the green.....almost never see anyone marking a card on the green after all the group have completed the hole.

2 - Bags left on the wrong side of the green......yes it happens, but rarely and even when it does its usually once a round when someone isn't thinking ahead.

3 - Handicaps.......from my experiences, handicap (complete beginners aside) has no bearing whatsoever on slow play, low handicappers can be slow, medium handicappers can be slow and so can high handicappers.

I do tend to agree with the OP, in that when the course is full and moving slowly it's better for ones own state of mind to accept it and play to the pace of the course, that's how I read the OP, not that he was accepting or even condoning slow play, just that on a given day there is not a lot one single group can do to change the situation.

I've played a fair bit of golf abroad with numerous nationality's and strangely the Brits seem to have a reputation (rightly or wrongly) amongst others for wanting to race round in the shortest time possible.

Which was backed up last year when a magazine published a survey which said that the UK players are the fastest going round a golf course in Europe if not the world?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This sums it up exactly for me - responsibility not just on the player as well

http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Etiquette/Pace-of-Play

But how many know it's there, how many will read it and how many will change their behaviour accordingly. Very few I reckon

 

[pokerjoke]

But how many know it's there, how many will read it and how many will change their behaviour accordingly. Very few I reckon

Well now 100's can read it because the link has been put up,so now its up to people to pass on there new found knowledge to playing partners who then can pass it on to others they play with.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well now 100's can read it because the link has been put up,so now its up to people to pass on there new found knowledge to playing partners who then can pass it on to others they play with.

Every single one of our members will be emailed a link to it and we are also printing out various copies as well as the Pro emailing weekly tips and updates.

The link was sent by R&A to every club with them requested to pass onto their members and also committees.

We have attached it to a letter explaining the reasons why

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Well now 100's can read it because the link has been put up,so now its up to people to pass on there new found knowledge to playing partners who then can pass it on to others they play with.

Granted more have the opportunity to see it but sadly I still think 90% of those that are regularly guilty of slow play still won't admit there's a problem with what they do and won't amend their behaviour in any way

You can send this out to all members etc but most are so dyed in the wool they are never going to change

 

[Slab]

Every single one of our members will be emailed a link to it and we are also printing out various copies as well as the Pro emailing weekly tips and updates.

The link was sent by R&A to every club with them requested to pass onto their members and also committees.

We have attached it to a letter explaining the reasons why

You're right to try everything to get them to read it

Word of caution though, you'd be surprised at the low open rate of some emails so make sure it has a title that'll help them decide to open it
If budget allows then print it in a4 and post to members too (also in a4 envelope) is the right size not to be ignored when it arrives on the doormat. Everyone opens a4 sized post.

If post cost too high stick printed summary copies into every locker and stick small printed versions into everyone meal bill or on back on menu's for a few weeks (maybe make it into a quiz/game that they can then leave entries on the bar with a box of balls up for grabs etc)

hope it works

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You're right to try everything to get them to read it

Word of caution though, you'd be surprised at the low open rate of some emails so make sure it has a title that'll help them decide to open it
If budget allows then print it in a4 and post to members too (also in a4 envelope) is the right size not to be ignored when it arrives on the doormat. Everyone opens a4 sized post.

If post cost too high stick printed summary copies into every locker and stick small printed versions into everyone meal bill or on back on menu's for a few weeks (maybe make it into a quiz/game that they can then leave entries on the bar with a box of balls up for grabs etc)

hope it works

All being done

It's one area our club lacked until recently - the ability to communicate well with its members but the Golf Director and new office staff have it nailed down now - communication is key to having a good club run well

 

[pokerjoke]

Granted more have the opportunity to see it but sadly I still think 90% of those that are regularly guilty of slow play still won't admit there's a problem with what they do and won't amend their behaviour in any way

You can send this out to all members etc but most are so dyed in the wool they are never going to change

I get what your saying but if everyone thought that people would not change then no-one would send out anything.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I get what your saying but if everyone thought that people would not change then no-one would send out anything.

Sadly the problem seems as prevalent today as it did decades ago so I think there is an inherent issue, a definite mindset in the majority of club members, and no viable solution to educate or break this entrenched thinking that the problem isn't them. No issue (and respect to) with anyone trying to make a change but it seems they are flogging a dead horse. Members refuse to accept they are the issue, and blame everyone else and so the cycle continues.

 

[dufferman]

It's all well and good sending out to members, for those of you on a private members course. The rest of us who play on courses open to the public have no hope. Maybe we should have compulsory basic training for all potential golfers, which is of course certified, to get the path of play moving.

 

[Capella]

It's all well and good sending out to members, for those of you on a private members course. The rest of us who play on courses open to the public have no hope. Maybe we should have compulsory basic training for all potential golfers, which is of course certified, to get the path of play moving.

That's how it's done in Germany. Does it help? I don't know ... I doubt we are internationally known for our pace of play :whoo:But at least no one can say he or she did not know better.

 

[Midnight]

Phil,
Just had a look at that link, some good common sense stuff in it.

Out of interest you mentioned earlier about having groups signing in and out for round times ( if I got it wrong I do apologise), how/who would govern this and what would the penalties be ?

Again not knocking the idea as I ain't got a clue what could be bought in to solve/address the issue.

Cheers mate.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil,
Just had a look at that link, some good common sense stuff in it.

Out of interest you mentioned earlier about having groups signing in and out for round times ( if I got it wrong I do apologise), how/who would govern this and what would the penalties be ?

Again not knocking the idea as I ain't got a clue what could be bought in to solve/address the issue.

Cheers mate.

People already have the tee time on their card when they pick it up

Then when someone finishes they pop into the pro shop and let them know they are finished and the pro notes the time down

When im closing the comp i will then look at the timings and see if there are any obvious clear gaps - a group coming in 30 mins behind another or even more for example.

Over the months you will see if their is any pattern forming with specific offenders and then look to tackle it - first ask them the reasons why - if the reasons arent acceptable then sanctions would be applied - warnings etc

We have already given 3 people a warning after they were found to have lost 45 mins - 4 holes on the group in front and were holding up the entire field behind them

 

[HomerJSimpson]

People already have the tee time on their card when they pick it up

Then when someone finishes they pop into the pro shop and let them know they are finished and the pro notes the time down

When im closing the comp i will then look at the timings and see if there are any obvious clear gaps - a group coming in 30 mins behind another or even more for example.

Over the months you will see if their is any pattern forming with specific offenders and then look to tackle it - first ask them the reasons why - if the reasons arent acceptable then sanctions would be applied - warnings etc

We have already given 3 people a warning after they were found to have lost 45 mins - 4 holes on the group in front and were holding up the entire field behind them

All well and good issuing warnings based I the timings from the computer but no mention of exploring extenuating circumstances or given the culprits a chance to explain. Seems a tad big brother and somewhat heavy handed