(Sorry this has been done to death) The solution to slow play is slow play

[Deleted member 15344]

I absolutely HATE this solution!!

I don't doubt for one minute it works but it masks the symptom rather than curing it. Drop the 60sec Pre-Shot Routine you learned from watching the pros. Ask yourself just what are you learning from the 360* stalk of a putt.

At a previous club, I received a complaint about slow play. The following week I put my name down in the group immediately behind the alleged culprit. Between shots, fine. But his PSR averaged 2mins a hole longer than his PP's. That over 30mins longer a round. That's how easy it is to lose two holes on the group in front.

Someone going around in a four ball in less than 4 hours isn't sprinting, he's just doing the right things when he approaches the ball.

The problem is a lot of pro's teach the importance of a good PSR routine - and then gets compounded by watching the Pro's do it

 

[Smiffy]

Watching four players putting on the green, waiting until the first one putts before lining up their putts, and then all eventually holing out and going to walk off the green before one of them remembers the flagstick and then has to walk back across the full length of the green to pick it up slows things down a bit.
I always thought that the first one to hole out picked up the flag ready to replace when the last one had putted was good etiquette and assisted in speedy play???

 

[Fish]

Watching four players putting on the green, waiting until the first one putts before lining up their putts, and then all eventually holing out and going to walk off the green before one of them remembers the flagstick and then has to walk back across the full length of the green to pick it up slows things down a bit.
I always thought that the first one to hole out picked up the flag ready to replace when the last one had putted was good etiquette and assisted in speedy play???

We witnessed this a lot, amongst lots other things like bags left on the wrong side of the green, didn't we :mmm:

 

[Smiffy]

We witnessed this a lot, amongst lots other things like bags left on the wrong side of the green, didn't we :mmm:

We did.

 

[Capella]

There are many reasons for slow play. Every player has his or her own bad and good habits. There are slow walkers, there are talkers, there are wannabe-tour-pros with extensive pre-shot routines and there are the nervous ones who just can't pull the trigger (that's me, sometimes) The more crowded the course is, the more the bad habits will add up and slow everyone down.

Saying everything over four hours is too slow is a bit too easy, though. Just do the math. Our course is officially about 6000 m long, but when I switch on the GPS watch, it tells me that I easily walk 9 to 10 km during a round (sorry for the metric measurements here). Even at a brisk pace, this is going to take up 100 to 110 min of pure walking time. Add let's say 30 sec per player per shot, including everything from setting your bag down over measuring distance to selecting a club, doing your pre-shot routine and hit your shot (which I don't think is too much) and assume a bogey golfer with 90 shots per round and you end up with 145 min for a single player, 190 min for a twoball, 235 min (so almost four hours) for a threeball and 280 min for a fourball. The best and pretty much only way to cut that down is to start preparing your shot while another player is playing his. Desireable but not always possible, depending on where your balls ended up.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If a player insists on a PSR they can normally be doing it while the other player is hitting their shot without causing a disturbance at least 8/10 times. That way they should be ready to step in, take one look at target and go. Most insist on waiting for the PP's to hit, watch it stop and then think about even taking the club out the bag.

I've no qualms about a round taking four and a half hours if no one dawdles and we keep moving. It's the stop start of those in front that grinds and adds the time. The problem is, even if politely point out that they left their bag miles away from the exit to the green on every hole etc, the problem wasn't their fault. Sadly I really can't see how the problem is ever going to change. It hasn't in the thirty plus years I've been playing

 

[Slab]

If a player insists on a PSR they can normally be doing it while the other player is hitting their shot without causing a disturbance at least 8/10 times. That way they should be ready to step in, take one look at target and go. Most insist on waiting for the PP's to hit, watch it stop and then think about even taking the club out the bag.

I've no qualms about a round taking four and a half hours if no one dawdles and we keep moving. It's the stop start of those in front that grinds and adds the time. The problem is, even if politely point out that they left their bag miles away from the exit to the green on every hole etc, the problem wasn't their fault. Sadly I really can't see how the problem is ever going to change. It hasn't in the thirty plus years I've been playing

Not one second of elapsed time is saved whether you leave your bag at the point of exit or point of entry to a green

 

[Capella]

Not one second of elapsed time is saved whether you leave your bag at the point of exit or point of entry to a green

Not for your own group, no. But it makes it possible for the group behind to go for the green earlier, if you leave it at the point of exit and don't have to zig-zag back in front of the green to get it. And I don't know about you, but I find waiting on the fairway to be able to finally hit my approach shot way more disrupting than having to wait on the next tee (which is unlikely to happen anyway, because normally the whole process of approaching the green and putting takes longer than it takes the group in front to tee off and get going on the next hole).

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Not one second of elapsed time is saved whether you leave your bag at the point of exit or point of entry to a green

But plenty when you watch a guy walk all the way back across to the green side bunker, pick it up, walk back across the green again, stop to mark the score and then wander off. Happens all too often

 

[Slab]

Not for your own group, no. But it makes it possible for the group behind to go for the green earlier, if you leave it at the point of exit and don't have to zig-zag back in front of the green to get it. And I don't know about you, but I find waiting on the fairway to be able to finally hit my approach shot way more disrupting than having to wait on the next tee (which is unlikely to happen anyway, because normally the whole process of approaching the green and putting takes longer than it takes the group in front to tee off and get going on the next hole).

You right of course you can move the 'waiting time' from one part of the course to another (& you prefer the teebox) but it is not a cause of slow play as the overall time remains the same

Leaving your bag in any other place not on the line between point of entry & point of exit will cause a delay to play (I guess this is what Homer saw) but I rarely see this happen. Its either at the entry or exit, both are fine in terms of pace

 

[robert.redmile]

How about having to sign out when you start your round, and sign in when finished?
agree standard times for 2 ball, 3 ball, 4 ball etc.
educate the offenders who consistently go over time, and for those who don't improve start to penalise them.

 

[Slab]

But plenty when you watch a guy walk all the way back across to the green side bunker, pick it up, walk back across the green again, stop to mark the score and then wander off. Happens all too often

See above posted at same time

I've seen it in the wrong place on rare occasions where point of entry changes last minute due to a duff chip shot or shank etc but its not the norm and the few seconds additional on the infrequent cases is not whats causing 5 hour rounds

 

[Capella]

You right of course you can move the 'waiting time' from one part of the course to another (& you prefer the teebox)

But it is not just about preferring the teebox for waiting. Playing their shots on and around the green will almost always take a group longer than teeing off, so it is not just about where you have to wait, it means less waiting time. The earlier the following group can get to the green, the more compact the field will stay as a whole. If you are the only group out on the course, then it makes no difference if you place your bags at the entry or exit of the green. When the course is busy and several groups maneuver about it in close progression, it does make a difference, because it allows the groups to move forward at a more steady pace.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How about having to sign out when you start your round, and sign in when finished?
agree standard times for 2 ball, 3 ball, 4 ball etc.
educate the offenders who consistently go over time, and for those who don't improve start to penalise them.

That's our next stage - sign in when you finish

Should form a pattern

 

[patricks148]

You right of course you can move the 'waiting time' from one part of the course to another (& you prefer the teebox) but it is not a cause of slow play as the overall time remains the same

Leaving your bag in any other place not on the line between point of entry & point of exit will cause a delay to play (I guess this is what Homer saw) but I rarely see this happen. Its either at the entry or exit, both are fine in terms of pace

what about;

one of your playing partners has left their bag the wrong side of the green, they had the low score on the hole so its them to tee off first. but they are not ready to because they had to trump all the way over to get their bag, while the rest of the group are standing on the tee waiting for them.

how is this example not causing a delay in play to both in the group and behind?

 

[garyinderry]

If someone starts marking their card in front of the green shout move or a quick whistle.

Mention to them next chance you get. It should only happen once and not the sole cause of 5 hour rounds.

I actually find it a rare occurrence these days.

 

[Capella]

I really want to write a software now that simulates the flow on a golf course. I wonder if that has ever been done. I will think about this some more and maybe give it a try.

 

[Slab]

But it is not just about preferring the teebox for waiting. Playing their shots on and around the green will almost always take a group longer than teeing off, so it is not just about where you have to wait, it means less waiting time. The earlier the following group can get to the green, the more compact the field will stay as a whole. If you are the only group out on the course, then it makes no difference if you place your bags at the entry or exit of the green. When the course is busy and several groups maneuver about it in close progression, it does make a difference, because it allows the groups to move forward at a more steady pace.

Yes as a means of maintaining how much the field is condensed (and potentially increasing capacity) it works, but doesn't work as a means of reducing the round time

But do you really want the field condensed to the maximum at all times? The club does so it can shorten spacing on the 1st tee but in the real world it simply means there is zero expansion room and the slightest delay/brief ball search etc from any player or group anywhere on the course ahead invokes 'waiting time' for several groups behind rather than the steady pace we all want

 

[Slab]

what about;

one of your playing partners has left their bag the wrong side of the green, they had the low score on the hole so its them to tee off first. but they are not ready to because they had to trump all the way over to get their bag, while the rest of the group are standing on the tee waiting for them.

how is this example not causing a delay in play to both in the group and behind?

The exception that proves the rule

But yeah you're right there will be the odd 'what if' anomalies like that if you play honour off the tee (remember they would also have to be last to putt as well for this to be true otherwise they should already be retrieving their bag) but again its not adding 30/60 minutes to a round

Just frustrating when its voiced as a primary reason of slow play

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The exception that proves the rule

But yeah you're right there will be the odd 'what if' anomalies like that if you play honour off the tee (remember they would also have to be last to putt as well for this to be true otherwise they should already be retrieving their bag) but again its not adding 30/60 minutes to a round

Just frustrating when its voiced as a primary reason of slow play

It's not an exception though it's a regular occurence coupled with people not teeing off because it's not his "honour" despite the person whose "honour" it is being 100 yards behind still filling in the scorecard whilst walking

There is a reason why it's included in the R&A guidelines - because it's a common occurrence that does impact on the pace of play