Slow play…….

[backwoodsman]

As to the question in post #1 - is 'keeping score' a cause of slow play - my answer, no. Keeping score takes no time at all.
Its the effing about & not being ready. Always been present and always will be. But there's more of it about than there used to be. Especially the overlong pre-shot routine. (Have a routine by all means but keep it reasonable...)

 

[r0wly86]

The point of this thread wasn’t to highlight every reason of slow play but more so to highlight the modern need to track scores on every single round even in bounce games, this simply wasn’t the done thing in my yoof!

With the new fashion being general play rounds via the EG app, this potentially stands to get worse (IMO)

I really don't think keeping score is a reason of slow play.

I have always kept score whenever I have played, on my own with a clear course I will complete 18 holes in 2.5 hours. But when I learned to play as a junior I was taught. Leave your bag in the best place to collect and go after the shot, mark your card on the next tee, unless helping to look for a ball or directly in front of a PP get to your ball and get ready to play i.e. while PP is working out distance and selecting club, I will be doing the same thing, so once they play I can go straight afterwards.

Yes hitting into the rough or trees will slow you down, I am a quick walker so that would mean why I can play 2.5 hour rounds. But if everyone does those things above, then holing out and keeping score won't slow you down too much

 

[r0wly86]

People not respecting tee times either

We played princes last week

First group goes ... Soon as their second *** is away there is someone on tee

Erm no wait until the tee time your 4 mins early .. I know you think your speeding up but all the evenly spaced and ability to have a good paced round is gone because your always going to be waiting.

Had it once a course held us until the first group was off first green (short par 4) course was rammed but was no slower than normal because we had proper space

Yes exactly seen it at pretty much every course that doesn't have a starter, they will tee off as soon as the previous group is out of range, but that just means at the first lost ball everyone gets bunched up and they won't stretch out again.

I know course want as many booking as possible to get money, but if they spread the tee times out so the green was clear before the next group teed off, you would rarely get any bunching up

 

[clubchamp98]

I really don't think keeping score is a reason of slow play.

I have always kept score whenever I have played, on my own with a clear course I will complete 18 holes in 2.5 hours. But when I learned to play as a junior I was taught. Leave your bag in the best place to collect and go after the shot, mark your card on the next tee, unless helping to look for a ball or directly in front of a PP get to your ball and get ready to play i.e. while PP is working out distance and selecting club, I will be doing the same thing, so once they play I can go straight afterwards.

Yes hitting into the rough or trees will slow you down, I am a quick walker so that would mean why I can play 2.5 hour rounds. But if everyone does those things above, then holing out and keeping score won't slow you down too much

Very good and you were taught well.
Unfortunately lots don’t do this.
I belive when you first start playing ,habits you get are very hard to change.
You need someone to show you how to conduct yourself on the course not just hit the ball.
This dosnt happen now imo.
But no matter the teacher some people just don’t change.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yes exactly seen it at pretty much every course that doesn't have a starter, they will tee off as soon as the previous group is out of range, but that just means at the first lost ball everyone gets bunched up and they won't stretch out again.

I know course want as many booking as possible to get money, but if they spread the tee times out so the green was clear before the next group teed off, you would rarely get any bunching up

At my club you are told if you tee off early before your time it’s a penalty.

 

[r0wly86]

Very good and you were taught well.
Unfortunately lots don’t do this.
I belive when you first start playing ,habits you get are very hard to change.
You need someone to show you how to conduct yourself on the course not just hit the ball.
This dosnt happen now imo.
But no matter the teacher some people just don’t change.

It has always been my belief that those who learned as juniors look after the course better and have better "eitquette" as a junior you just don't question what someone is teaching you, you accept it and it becomes part of your habit

 

[clubchamp98]

It has always been my belief that those who learned as juniors look after the course better and have better "eitquette" as a junior you just don't question what someone is teaching you, you accept it and it becomes part of your habit

I was never a junior.
Started after 28 yrs old.
But was shown/ taught by a 4 hcap neighbour how to conduct myself.
Great golfer and a proper gent.
Didn’t really know him that well, just got talking to him after a bad footy injury ended my playing days.
Golf was a life saver for me as a shift worker I had very little to do during the day.

Imo nowadays there is no induction to the game.
New members pay their money and are just free to go.
So we introduced a buddy system where we show new members the ropes.
But had one guy joined who had never played on a course in his life,
All he did was hit on the range. So had never seen a divot.
So he was a blank canvas with no bad habits.
He’s quite a decent golfer now
But sometimes you can’t change old habits.

 

[Orikoru]

I was never a junior.
Started after 28 yrs old.
But was shown/ taught by a 4 hcap neighbour how to conduct myself.
Great golfer and a proper gent.
Didn’t really know him that well, just got talking to him after a bad footy injury ended my playing days.
Golf was a life saver for me as a shift worker I had very little to do during the day.

Imo nowadays there is no induction to the game.
New members pay their money and are just free to go.
So we introduced a buddy system where we show new members the ropes.
But had one guy joined who had never played on a course in his life,
All he did was hit on the range. So had never seen a divot.
So he was a blank canvas with no bad habits.
He’s quite a decent golfer now
But sometimes you can’t change old habits.

It does depend on how you're introduced to the game. I was introduced to it by my dad, who was introduced to it by my uncle (his bro-in-law). So each time it was by someone who already played and knew about the etiquette, speed of play and so on. I tried to do the same to my best mate who took the game up 6 or 7 years ago. But if a group of you just spontaneously decide you're going to take up golf, and go out and play together, as you say, you'd have no idea that you're supposed to replace divots, repair pitchmarks, leave your bag on the correct side of the green, etc. Perhaps with golf being on TV all the time more people are taking up golf this way, whereas it used to be more by osmosis, a friend of a friend etc.

 

[clubchamp98]

It does depend on how you're introduced to the game. I was introduced to it by my dad, who was introduced to it by my uncle (his bro-in-law). So each time it was by someone who already played and knew about the etiquette, speed of play and so on. I tried to do the same to my best mate who took the game up 6 or 7 years ago. But if a group of you just spontaneously decide you're going to take up golf, and go out and play together, as you say, you'd have no idea that you're supposed to replace divots, repair pitchmarks, leave your bag on the correct side of the green, etc. Perhaps with golf being on TV all the time more people are taking up golf this way, whereas it used to be more by osmosis, a friend of a friend etc.

Exactly .
But the pros and TV is a very poor example imo.
TV shows rarely show the pros replacing divots ,raking bunkers , not shouting fore etc.
I know it’s different as the caddy does it, but they should show what he does, not just carry the bag.! On behalf of the player.
I think the producers and commentators should include this content.
In some hot countries you don’t put divots back ,but explain why not.
But why not include “ this is the proper way to rake your bunker after your shot” or show the caddie putting the divot back.
There is loads of time spare in golf TV.
New golfers might just pick this up ,and some more established ones might change habits.

 

[BridgfordBlue]

I was never a junior.
Started after 28 yrs old.
But was shown/ taught by a 4 hcap neighbour how to conduct myself.
Great golfer and a proper gent.
Didn’t really know him that well, just got talking to him after a bad footy injury ended my playing days.
Golf was a life saver for me as a shift worker I had very little to do during the day.

Imo nowadays there is no induction to the game.
New members pay their money and are just free to go.
So we introduced a buddy system where we show new members the ropes.
But had one guy joined who had never played on a course in his life,
All he did was hit on the range. So had never seen a divot.
So he was a blank canvas with no bad habits.
He’s quite a decent golfer now
But sometimes you can’t change old habits.

Completely agree with this, I rejoined a club a couple of years ago having not played since I was a junior. When I originally started playing as a junior, I had two lessons purely about etiquette and rules before even being allowed to pick up a club.

Nowadays, I know the place I’m at doesn’t, but I’m not sure anywhere does that induction side of it properly, at least for anyone that isn’t a junior. I think they’re missing a real trick. There’s an awful lot to golf that can daunt new players in terms of getting to know all the rules, even how to mark a card properly.

The other side to it with slow play is I play every couple of weeks with a couple of family members. They’ve never been a member of a club or play overly regularly, for them it’s a round at a weekend wherever they can get locally on golf now.

For them, they are the exact type of people that don’t play ready golf, they will watch each other’s shots and amble up the fairways. I get it though as they’re not interested in being particularly quick, if anything they’d take as long as possible as they’ve got the day booked away from the family! Golf to them is a social thing but it is escapism too so they maximise the opportunity.

Personally I think that’s fine as long as it’s coupled with self awareness. Drives me a bit nuts as rounds take even longer due to letting people through, but ultimately not everyone wants the same thing from a round of golf. It’s one of the great things about the game tbh.

 

[clubchamp98]

Completely agree with this, I rejoined a club a couple of years ago having not played since I was a junior. When I originally started playing as a junior, I had two lessons purely about etiquette and rules before even being allowed to pick up a club.

Nowadays, I know the place I’m at doesn’t, but I’m not sure anywhere does that induction side of it properly, at least for anyone that isn’t a junior. I think they’re missing a real trick. There’s an awful lot to golf that can daunt new players in terms of getting to know all the rules, even how to mark a card properly.

The other side to it with slow play is I play every couple of weeks with a couple of family members. They’ve never been a member of a club or play overly regularly, for them it’s a round at a weekend wherever they can get locally on golf now.

For them, they are the exact type of people that don’t play ready golf, they will watch each other’s shots and amble up the fairways. I get it though as they’re not interested in being particularly quick, if anything they’d take as long as possible as they’ve got the day booked away from the family! Golf to them is a social thing but it is escapism too so they maximise the opportunity.

Personally I think that’s fine as long as it’s coupled with self awareness. Drives me a bit nuts as rounds take even longer due to letting people through, but ultimately not everyone wants the same thing from a round of golf. It’s one of the great things about the game tbh.

My mentor said to me “you will learn the rules by breaking them, as long as someone points it out to you”
He was spot on .
Once you start getting penalty shots you remember and learn quickly.

Social golf dosnt bother me for pace.
But it’s slow play in comps that’s the problem. Imo.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

First response, it has nothing to do with it but moving forward with GP rounds being submitted on a more regular basis via the app it definitely won’t help.

Arguably a score could be defined in many forms, but it doesn’t always have to be until every putt is holed and noted.

OK, but as only a small minority are handing in GP rounds, again what's the issue? If everyone was doing it, yes it's likely to inhibit times even further, but it's really not relevant to "what's causing slow play"

 

[r0wly86]

how much time does holing out take a group?

if we are talking about holing genuine gimmes, then these should be sunk 9/10. If they are tap ins then they shouldn't be taking much time over them at all. If they regularly miss them and two putt, then they weren't really gimmes

 

[Imurg]

Slow play today....
The reason? And I don't like being specific about ages or genders or whatever but this time it's valid
4 old boys - all in their 80s.
We followed them from our 10th hole and waited on every shot.
They can't walk fast, they don't hit the ball very far and they take all day on the greens
I love it that they're out there playing...I hope I'm still able to when I'm their age
But they have to realise that their pace of play is backing up the entire course and that they have to let groups through.
The layout of that 9 means you never get close enough to have a word....
Ponderous...they finally let us through on our last hole as they were looking for a ball...as we walked past and thanked them you could feel that they really didn't want to do it....

 

[Oddsocks]

I was never a junior.
Started after 28 yrs old.
But was shown/ taught by a 4 hcap neighbour how to conduct myself.
Great golfer and a proper gent.
Didn’t really know him that well, just got talking to him after a bad footy injury ended my playing days.
Golf was a life saver for me as a shift worker I had very little to do during the day.

Imo nowadays there is no induction to the game.
New members pay their money and are just free to go.
So we introduced a buddy system where we show new members the ropes.
But had one guy joined who had never played on a course in his life,
All he did was hit on the range. So had never seen a divot.
So he was a blank canvas with no bad habits.
He’s quite a decent golfer now
But sometimes you can’t change old habits.

Very valid also. I learned the game by caddying for players who were know to be quicker players so picked up slot of good habits before actually picking up a club.

Fast forward 25+ years and general clubs offer no form of introduction or general course etiquette guidance so it’s left to the members which can sometimes be awkward.

Without a doubt lack of induction knowledge has to impact pace of play

 

[Slab]

Very valid also. I learned the game by caddying for players who were know to be quicker players so picked up slot of good habits before actually picking up a club.

Fast forward 25+ years and general clubs offer no form of introduction or general course etiquette guidance so it’s left to the members which can sometimes be awkward.

Without a doubt lack of induction knowledge has to impact pace of play

And I'd imagine to build a reputation as known quick players in an era when seemingly every man and his dug was knocking it round in 3.45, is no mean feat

They must've been rapid

 

[Canary Kid]

First group goes ... Soon as their second *** is away there is someone on tee

Eek!

 

[PJ87]

Eek!

Whoops

 

[Jigger]

there’s a short P&P course next to me which should be 3hrs but can be up well beyond 4hrs and it’s just down to the standard of golf. Plus I find the casual / society golfer is either unaware or less concerned about the etiquette of the game.

On our members course I find it’s distance. Everyone at our club walks a reasonable pace but its a longish course so takes 3:45-4hrs on average. If we step on the gas and the course is empty we can do about 3:30 but golf on a weekend golf should be about everyone have some enjoyment so 4hrs is not bad. It’s not a park run after all.

Maybe the simple answer for me is for all courses to publish average playing times. If people don’t like it then don’t play or play 9 holes. comps at my course is what boils my blood as they are 3 balls to save people 10mins but that means you can sometimes struggle to get a decent time now and end up playing much later.

 

[Alan Clifford]

it's not a race.