Slow play…….

[theoneandonly]

I reckon a lot of it comes from watching modern pros.

Take the Masters for instance.

At one time it was done and finished by 11pm UK time now there are years when it drags on to the wee small hours. (Alliss was right).

The course has changed massively since the good old days .

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Since slow play has become the hot topic in recent years, I’ve really struggled to see what the exact cause is and the timeline in which it changed.

As a kid (94-97) we would play a 4 ball in around 3 hours, all carrying with varying handicaps between 10 and low 20’s. Any comp rounds seem to take about 30-45 mins longer (card in hand)

Around the same time I caddied weekends as a kid at the Addington. The regular group was made up of an early 50’s guy off 10 who was pretty fit, a late 60’s ex footballer with blown knees off 12 and the other two in their 70’s both off late teens. They would always play white tees, three having trolleys with me as the only caddy and a round would never take longer than 3.45 which around there and for their age I thought was pretty good going. Since playing and being at my lowest (7) I have never played a round on the same course and got around in less that 4.5hrs… why?

The common factor of faster play was that the rounds were generally pairs match play with sensible gimmies (putter grip was auto given with up to two grips questioned). With the new fashion of golf being everyone entering scores, working out points etc just seems to slow stuff up and is it possible that WHS with general play cards further impacting this?

As a kid I can never remember the groups I caddied for ever discussing how many points or how many over gross they were, it’s was simply bragging rights of £2.50/£2.50 for each 9 and £5.00 overall. As a player it was bragging rights playing for the cheesy chips and a coke after, we only ever noted points in comps.

So the question is, had the need to count points or strokes on every round actually the true factor in slow play?

Second point first. Slow play has been a problem for a very long time, WHS has nothing to do with it.

Second point, I took up the game at 17, we played at least 6 times a week through the summer. I've never played with anyone who didn't keep score. Back then it might have been level 5s as the mark of what you were scoring agaisnt, but there was always a score, there was also never a game for cash that I can recall, just bragging rights.

 

[Oddsocks]

Second point first. Slow play has been a problem for a very long time, WHS has nothing to do with it.

Second point, I took up the game at 17, we played at least 6 times a week through the summer. I've never played with anyone who didn't keep score. Back then it might have been level 5s as the mark of what you were scoring agaisnt, but there was always a score, there was also never a game for cash that I can recall, just bragging rights.

First response, it has nothing to do with it but moving forward with GP rounds being submitted on a more regular basis via the app it definitely won’t help.

Arguably a score could be defined in many forms, but it doesn’t always have to be until every putt is holed and noted.

 

[Backsticks]

People choose to play slower golf these days. Nobody walks up and just hits the ball.
You are never going to play at the level of Bryson or Spieth if you dont learn from the methods the pros use.

Playing a full shot properly today involves, checking your GPS, in both hole view, and green view, stepping back and using the shaft to sight a line along your target, using the laser to get a precise distance to the flag, a couple of times, because maybe it caught a tree behind the green, putting that back in its little pouch and zipping it up, asking a playing partner for the distance from his GPS just to be sure, its out by 6 yards from yours, so checking with him that his doesnt use course mapping but is based only on satellite images, but its a working number to check the distance notes on your bag that from the gapping session you did and the pro said always consult your results before committing to a shot, selecting a club, taking a couple of half swings, and then changing your mind, and going against the distance table because it just didnt feel right, and you topped it on the previous hole anyway, so putting that back, taking out a different club, cleaning its grooves with the special brush because that is part of your process now and you want to be systematic and ingrain a routine, taking the precisely six waggles, and convinced its the club, leaning it against your bag to put on your glove, a 'mental trigger' the youtube guy said, that now puts you in 'the zone' to prepare for the shot, as you start the breathing exercise, stepping 5 yards behind the ball to take two full rehearsal swings - not just wild slashes! focus as if the ball is really there! - then you loosen up, adjust both shirts sleeves up just a little to ensure your swing is unrestricted, then you are ready. To start the gripping process. Each finger placed on the grip with the care of a watchmaker assembling a mechanism - you simply cant be too precise - a half a millimetre is almost a degree off which will be 7-9 yards off line for the ball, so if the grip isnt correct there is no point swinging at all. Ensuring you feel at one with club, you are now ready to take the practice swing beside the ball, not to be confused with the two you took minutes earlier from behind it, but this time focusing on one of your three preselected swing thoughts of the day, and the one you will use for the shot. If this practice swing does not feel right, you must step back, regrip the club, and 'reset'. Starting the visualisation process, as you look down the line, imagining the ball flight, you are ready, stepping up to the ball. And swinging.
And dont get me started on putting....

 

[clubchamp98]

Ever been behind someone doing 30mph in the outside lane. Oblivious of other traffic.?
Some people are slow some quick.
You will never change that. Unfortunately.

 

[Bratty]

People choose to play slower golf these days. Nobody walks up and just hits the ball.
You are never going to play at the level of Bryson or Spieth if you dont learn from the methods the pros use.

Playing a full shot properly today involves, checking your GPS, in both hole view, and green view, stepping back and using the shaft to sight a line along your target, using the laser to get a precise distance to the flag, a couple of times, because maybe it caught a tree behind the green, putting that back in its little pouch and zipping it up, asking a playing partner for the distance from his GPS just to be sure, its out by 6 yards from yours, so checking with him that his doesnt use course mapping but is based only on satellite images, but its a working number to check the distance notes on your bag that from the gapping session you did and the pro said always consult your results before committing to a shot, selecting a club, taking a couple of half swings, and then changing your mind, and going against the distance table because it just didnt feel right, and you topped it on the previous hole anyway, so putting that back, taking out a different club, cleaning its grooves with the special brush because that is part of your process now and you want to be systematic and ingrain a routine, taking the precisely six waggles, and convinced its the club, leaning it against your bag to put on your glove, a 'mental trigger' the youtube guy said, that now puts you in 'the zone' to prepare for the shot, as you start the breathing exercise, stepping 5 yards behind the ball to take two full rehearsal swings - not just wild slashes! focus as if the ball is really there! - then you loosen up, adjust both shirts sleeves up just a little to ensure your swing is unrestricted, then you are ready. To start the gripping process. Each finger placed on the grip with the care of a watchmaker assembling a mechanism - you simply cant be too precise - a half a millimetre is almost a degree off which will be 7-9 yards off line for the ball, so if the grip isnt correct there is no point swinging at all. Ensuring you feel at one with club, you are now ready to take the practice swing beside the ball, not to be confused with the two you took minutes earlier from behind it, but this time focusing on one of your three preselected swing thoughts of the day, and the one you will use for the shot. If this practice swing does not feel right, you must step back, regrip the club, and 'reset'. Starting the visualisation process, as you look down the line, imagining the ball flight, you are ready, stepping up to the ball. And swinging.
And dont get me started on putting....

Can we start a thread on slow posting? ?

 

[clubchamp98]

People choose to play slower golf these days. Nobody walks up and just hits the ball.
You are never going to play at the level of Bryson or Spieth if you dont learn from the methods the pros use.

Playing a full shot properly today involves, checking your GPS, in both hole view, and green view, stepping back and using the shaft to sight a line along your target, using the laser to get a precise distance to the flag, a couple of times, because maybe it caught a tree behind the green, putting that back in its little pouch and zipping it up, asking a playing partner for the distance from his GPS just to be sure, its out by 6 yards from yours, so checking with him that his doesnt use course mapping but is based only on satellite images, but its a working number to check the distance notes on your bag that from the gapping session you did and the pro said always consult your results before committing to a shot, selecting a club, taking a couple of half swings, and then changing your mind, and going against the distance table because it just didnt feel right, and you topped it on the previous hole anyway, so putting that back, taking out a different club, cleaning its grooves with the special brush because that is part of your process now and you want to be systematic and ingrain a routine, taking the precisely six waggles, and convinced its the club, leaning it against your bag to put on your glove, a 'mental trigger' the youtube guy said, that now puts you in 'the zone' to prepare for the shot, as you start the breathing exercise, stepping 5 yards behind the ball to take two full rehearsal swings - not just wild slashes! focus as if the ball is really there! - then you loosen up, adjust both shirts sleeves up just a little to ensure your swing is unrestricted, then you are ready. To start the gripping process. Each finger placed on the grip with the care of a watchmaker assembling a mechanism - you simply cant be too precise - a half a millimetre is almost a degree off which will be 7-9 yards off line for the ball, so if the grip isnt correct there is no point swinging at all. Ensuring you feel at one with club, you are now ready to take the practice swing beside the ball, not to be confused with the two you took minutes earlier from behind it, but this time focusing on one of your three preselected swing thoughts of the day, and the one you will use for the shot. If this practice swing does not feel right, you must step back, regrip the club, and 'reset'. Starting the visualisation process, as you look down the line, imagining the ball flight, you are ready, stepping up to the ball. And swinging.
And dont get me started on putting....

Jeez no wonder the games slowing down
Don’t fancy being behind them.

 

[Backache]

it's caused by those who use Pink Castle Tees

Can't be they never wait to pick them up.

 

[PJ87]

Theres a lot of reasons, not always the same but the big contributors for me are:

No education of new golfers as to what is expected of them in terms of etiquette (and refreshers for those who have forgotten!!) compared to the more selfish attitudes of some these days . Used to be very clear what was expected in terms of pace of play, letting groups through, looking after the course etc, nowadays people just argue theyve paid theyre money theyll do as they like

Tee times too close together cramming too many people on the course. At my last course you often saw three groups on the first, one on the green one in the fairway and one on or walking off the tee. Would usually be another group or two on the tee and they would tee off as soon as clear.

Courses set up that slow things down. Either bottle necks through course design or course condition being overly penal for amateur golfers

Modern golfers, egos and copying the tour pros or being taught by teaching pros to incorporate PSRs, over assessing shots etc

People not respecting tee times either

We played princes last week

First group goes ... Soon as their second shot is away there is someone on tee

Erm no wait until the tee time your 4 mins early .. I know you think your speeding up but all the evenly spaced and ability to have a good paced round is gone because your always going to be waiting.

Had it once a course held us until the first group was off first green (short par 4) course was rammed but was no slower than normal because we had proper space

 

[Alan Clifford]

I have a knee problem. I have a leg problem. I have a back problem. I don't hit my drives very far, mainly because I'm old, didn't start golf until I was 57, have a knee problem blah blah. So why the .... do I have to wait on the tee and often on the fairway for the group in front. I should be the slowest golfer on the course.

 

[Pants]

People choose to play slower golf these days. Nobody walks up and just hits the ball.
You are never going to play at the level of Bryson or Spieth if you dont learn from the methods the pros use.

Playing a full shot properly today involves, checking your GPS, in both hole view, and green view, stepping back and using the shaft to sight a line along your target, using the laser to get a precise distance to the flag, a couple of times, because maybe it caught a tree behind the green, putting that back in its little pouch and zipping it up, asking a playing partner for the distance from his GPS just to be sure, its out by 6 yards from yours, so checking with him that his doesnt use course mapping but is based only on satellite images, but its a working number to check the distance notes on your bag that from the gapping session you did and the pro said always consult your results before committing to a shot, selecting a club, taking a couple of half swings, and then changing your mind, and going against the distance table because it just didnt feel right, and you topped it on the previous hole anyway, so putting that back, taking out a different club, cleaning its grooves with the special brush because that is part of your process now and you want to be systematic and ingrain a routine, taking the precisely six waggles, and convinced its the club, leaning it against your bag to put on your glove, a 'mental trigger' the youtube guy said, that now puts you in 'the zone' to prepare for the shot, as you start the breathing exercise, stepping 5 yards behind the ball to take two full rehearsal swings - not just wild slashes! focus as if the ball is really there! - then you loosen up, adjust both shirts sleeves up just a little to ensure your swing is unrestricted, then you are ready. To start the gripping process. Each finger placed on the grip with the care of a watchmaker assembling a mechanism - you simply cant be too precise - a half a millimetre is almost a degree off which will be 7-9 yards off line for the ball, so if the grip isnt correct there is no point swinging at all. Ensuring you feel at one with club, you are now ready to take the practice swing beside the ball, not to be confused with the two you took minutes earlier from behind it, but this time focusing on one of your three preselected swing thoughts of the day, and the one you will use for the shot. If this practice swing does not feel right, you must step back, regrip the club, and 'reset'. Starting the visualisation process, as you look down the line, imagining the ball flight, you are ready, stepping up to the ball. And swinging.
And dont get me started on putting....

Most of that was covered in post #37 in 2 words - etc, etc

Quite good though

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What I observe compared with what I can recall from 40-45yrs ago is a lot fewer players carrying and lot more players walking slowly pushing/pulling/whatever their trollies and chatting endlessly, continuing when they should be separating to play their shots. Indeed some guys I occasionally play with will have to finish their story or joke before proceding to their ball. I find it really frustrating.

 

[clubchamp98]

We have a particular fourball who are very slow.
They wander all over the place but never get more than ten yds apart.
We call them “ the flock of sheep”
They look like their playing a Texas Scramble every day.

 

[BubbaP]

We have a particular fourball who are very slow.
They wander all over the place but never get more than ten yds apart.
We call them “ the flock of sheep”
They look like their playing a Texas Scramble every day.

This seems to be an area where they aren't "copying the pros on tv".

Through covid times I regularly played with a fella 20 years my senior, our walking speeds were very different. He was a steady hitter and I found myself becoming almost too blasé standing just a few yards off his line up ahead. Thankfully he never hit me ?

 

[BubbaP]

I think the clubs have some responsibility here. A club near me has 8min between tee times - on the weekend that means over 5 hours a round. Early morning mid-week you can play the same course in 3.5 hours.
Years ago I remember 15 min between tee times being common now it's almost always 10 or less.

The previous club I was at there were the usual moans about competition round times. The comp team persuaded the club to switch to 10 min tee times for the comps (8 mins usually) and I was surprised just how much better it seemed. Did need players to stick to them though and not do as some have said, tee off as soon as 1 yard out of range.

 

[chellie]

The previous club I was at there were the usual moans about competition round times. The comp team persuaded the club to switch to 10 min tee times for the comps (8 mins usually) and I was surprised just how much better it seemed. Did need players to stick to them though and not do as some have said, tee off as soon as 1 yard out of range.

Should have the penalties applied if they tee off early. Happens in our ladies comps.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As said by others…slow play has been a scourge of the game probably forever. Harry Vardon really didn’t like what was called back then American Foursomes (an extended version of greensomes) or American four ball (4BBB) as it was so slow, as far as he was concerned if you want play in a four you play proper foursomes.

 

[Oddsocks]

People not respecting tee times either

We played princes last week

First group goes ... Soon as their second *** is away there is someone on tee

Erm no wait until the tee time your 4 mins early .. I know you think your speeding up but all the evenly spaced and ability to have a good paced round is gone because your always going to be waiting.

Had it once a course held us until the first group was off first green (short par 4) course was rammed but was no slower than normal because we had proper space

I’ve good post this. At my current course our first is a long par 4 up hill with a fairway bunker at around 350 ish yards, although only the very young low hc bomber can get to it there is a general rule that you don’t tee off until people are past it. These seems to gap the field nicely and due to a small space between group a slow round never feels that slow.

Looking back at my childhood comparisons in post #1, as a junior we always let the first completely clear which again was a 440 ish par 4 uphill before we teed off which definitely helps.

 

[jim8flog]

People choose to play slower golf these days. Nobody walks up and just hits the ball.
You are never going to play at the level of Bryson or Spieth if you dont learn from the methods the pros use.

Playing a full shot properly today involves, checking your GPS, in both hole view, and green view, stepping back and using the shaft to sight a line along your target, using the laser to get a precise distance to the flag, a couple of times, because maybe it caught a tree behind the green, putting that back in its little pouch and zipping it up, asking a playing partner for the distance from his GPS just to be sure, its out by 6 yards from yours, so checking with him that his doesnt use course mapping but is based only on satellite images, but its a working number to check the distance notes on your bag that from the gapping session you did and the pro said always consult your results before committing to a shot, selecting a club, taking a couple of half swings, and then changing your mind, and going against the distance table because it just didnt feel right, and you topped it on the previous hole anyway, so putting that back, taking out a different club, cleaning its grooves with the special brush because that is part of your process now and you want to be systematic and ingrain a routine, taking the precisely six waggles, and convinced its the club, leaning it against your bag to put on your glove, a 'mental trigger' the youtube guy said, that now puts you in 'the zone' to prepare for the shot, as you start the breathing exercise, stepping 5 yards behind the ball to take two full rehearsal swings - not just wild slashes! focus as if the ball is really there! - then you loosen up, adjust both shirts sleeves up just a little to ensure your swing is unrestricted, then you are ready. To start the gripping process. Each finger placed on the grip with the care of a watchmaker assembling a mechanism - you simply cant be too precise - a half a millimetre is almost a degree off which will be 7-9 yards off line for the ball, so if the grip isnt correct there is no point swinging at all. Ensuring you feel at one with club, you are now ready to take the practice swing beside the ball, not to be confused with the two you took minutes earlier from behind it, but this time focusing on one of your three preselected swing thoughts of the day, and the one you will use for the shot. If this practice swing does not feel right, you must step back, regrip the club, and 'reset'. Starting the visualisation process, as you look down the line, imagining the ball flight, you are ready, stepping up to the ball. And swinging.
And dont get me started on putting....

Nothing wrong with all of this provided you do it within the 40 seconds you are allowed for the shot under the rules of golf

 

[PJ87]

I’ve good post this. At my current course our first is a long par 4 up hill with a fairway bunker at around 350 ish yards, although only the very young low hc bomber can get to it there is a general rule that you don’t tee off until people are past it. These seems to gap the field nicely and due to a small space between group a slow round never feels that slow.

Looking back at my childhood comparisons in post #1, as a junior we always let the first completely clear which again was a 440 ish par 4 uphill before we teed off which definitely helps.

Last round at princes I had my mate (long hitter) following us. It was a slow day, everyone had teed off too quick (imo) and we were group 3 out of 4

On a par 5 into wind my tee shot had caught the wind and stopped about 120 yards.. awful. Second shot much better ..

Anyways he is a strong driver and suddenly a ball bounced past as I had played my 3rd shot

I had a pop at him on our drive home as I was driving us home. Send the shortest hitters in your group first not you. (The others were all 150 yarders)

I find sometimes people are too fixated on "the honour" and the old ways that if you let the short hitters (like myself) just tee off first then you will wait less because the groups will be clear when it's your turn