Ryder Cup - Man for Man

[Deleted member 15344]

You and I can only speculate how he may be seen by his team-mates.

But yet again on a thread you have flip-flopped. First you tell me that his recent form is better than others and then you say recent form is irrelevant.

I really am not surprised by this lack of commitment to an argument.

It's not speculation

You only have to read both Monty and Darren Clarkes books , what other players have said about him also.

His recent form is better than others but he has not been picked because of his recent form - you only have to look at every European Ryder Cup team since the 80's to see exactly the role Westwood will play.

It's actually very very obvious but if you are just looking at form to justify a place on the team you will miss it

 

[Deleted member 18588]

It's not speculation

You only have to read both Monty and Darren Clarkes books , what other players have said about him also.

His recent form is better than others but he has not been picked because of his recent form - you only have to look at every European Ryder Cup team since the 80's to see exactly the role Westwood will play.

It's actually very very obvious but if you are just looking at form to justify a place on the team you will miss it

Darren Clarke and Colin Montgomerie are irrelevant to this debate.

The leadership role to which you refer is overrated and outdated.It refers back to a time where, on paper, the European team was considered inferior and were in danger of being overawed by the opposition.

This is no longer the case and thus there is no call for someone to fill the Seve, Faldo,or Montie position of the past.

Recent experience suggests that performance in the Singles could prove decisive and therein lies the weakness of his selection.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Darren Clarke and Colin Montgomerie are irrelevant to this debate.

The leadership role to which you refer is overrated and outdated.It refers back to a time where, on paper, the European team was considered inferior and were in danger of being overawed by the opposition.

This is no longer the case and thus there is no call for someone to fill the Seve, Faldo,or Montie position of the past.

Both their books are very relevant in the fact in those books they both state how well liked Westwood is by all the European Players and how well respected he is

As for the leadership role not needed - sorry but that suggests you haven't heard Paul McGinley or in fact the majority of the European Ryder Cup players speak - that leadership role is still very much alive for Europe and still something the US try and replicate.

Singles is one point

There are possible 4 more on offer for him to try and gain

 

[JCW]

Oh a tit for tat debate , goal post moving will be part of it i am sure , Donald , F Molanari and even Casey would have been better picks then Westwood , his chipping and putting are not of the standard required hence why he is a nearly man in the big ones

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Both their books are very relevant in the fact in those books they both state how well liked Westwood is by all the European Players and how well respected he is

As for the leadership role not needed - sorry but that suggests you haven't heard Paul McGinley or in fact the majority of the European Ryder Cup players speak - that leadership role is still very much alive for Europe and still something the US try and replicate.

Singles is one point

There are possible 4 more on offer for him to try and gain

Well obviously none of us are as well informed as yourself but both Clarke & Montgomerie are, in this context, yesterday's men.

I do not think the likes of McIlroy, Rose, Stenson, etc; are feeling the need for a leader and were more likely to be influenced by on course performances such as that of Poulter in 2012.

His record in the last two Ryder Cups is OK but certainly not startling. That coupled with his recent individual form is certainly unlikely toinspire his team-mates or intimidate the opposition.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Why wasn't Adam Scott chosen as a captain's pick? Surely he's played well enough recently to deserve it.

 

[ger147]

Why wasn't Adam Scott chosen as a captain's pick? Surely he's played well enough recently to deserve it.

He's Australian.

 

[macca64]

Based on sweet nothing, I think the septics will win.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

This is no longer the case and thus there is no call for someone to fill the Seve, Faldo,or Montie position of the past.

Really not sure I can agree with this, I think a few experienced heads bring a lot to the team. It's the same in any team game, you would never see a top football team without at least a couple of older guys in it to 'mentor' the younger ones.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well obviously none of us are as well informed as yourself but both Clarke & Montgomerie are, in this context, yesterday's men.

I do not think the likes of McIlroy, Rose, Stenson, etc; are feeling the need for a leader and were more likely to be influenced by on course performances such as that of Poulter in 2012.

His record in the last two Ryder Cups is OK but certainly not startling. That coupled with his recent individual form is certainly unlikely toinspire his team-mates or intimidate the opposition.

Ill say it again because it appears you dont get it

Clark and Monty have both stated that the players from both the last Ryder Cups ( They would know ) looked up to Westwood as they saw him as the playing leader in the team - Rory , Poults , Gmac , ever Garcia etc - all the same people that are playing this time

Even Donaldson said the same thing when being interviewed earlier on Sky as did Gallacher - Westwood is the player to play with those guys to help them through the Ryder Cup.

As McGinley says - the Europeans play for each other and its having players like Westwood in that keeps in all together. In 6 or 8 years time that will be down to player like Gmac and Poults as they will be the experienced ones.

You keep forcusing on form - that goes right out of the window when the Ryder Cup happens.

I really would suggest you watch the European Ryder Cup vids from the last 20 years and then watch the stories of the players because it appears you dont understand the make up of what makes the European Team so strong.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Ill say it again because it appears you dont get it

Clark and Monty have both stated that the players from both the last Ryder Cups ( They would know ) looked up to Westwood as they saw him as the playing leader in the team - Rory , Poults , Gmac , ever Garcia etc - all the same people that are playing this time

Even Donaldson said the same thing when being interviewed earlier on Sky as did Gallacher - Westwood is the player to play with those guys to help them through the Ryder Cup.

As McGinley says - the Europeans play for each other and its having players like Westwood in that keeps in all together. In 6 or 8 years time that will be down to player like Gmac and Poults as they will be the experienced ones.

You keep forcusing on form - that goes right out of the window when the Ryder Cup happens.

I really would suggest you watch the European Ryder Cup vids from the last 20 years and then watch the stories of the players because it appears you dont understand the make up of what makes the European Team so strong.

As you have been told on many, many occasions constantly repeating the same opinion does not make you right.

Some of the statements now being made about his leadership credentials border on the ludicrous and some may, for all we know, have been "stage managed".

As I keep saying I hope he has a very successful Ryder Cup campaign but that does not alter my feeling that he is a very lucky man to be part of the team and could have been better employed as a Vice Captain.

As for watching the videos of the last 20 years all I can say is that they are not, nor were they intended to be, very insightful. I have watched Ryder Cup matches both live and on television for nearly 40 years and the videos produced, usually by Sky TV, of the more recent ones really have not added to my understanding or appreciation of the event.

 

[pokerjoke]

Ill say it again because it appears you dont get it

Clark and Monty have both stated that the players from both the last Ryder Cups ( They would know ) looked up to Westwood as they saw him as the playing leader in the team - Rory , Poults , Gmac , ever Garcia etc - all the same people that are playing this time

Even Donaldson said the same thing when being interviewed earlier on Sky as did Gallacher - Westwood is the player to play with those guys to help them through the Ryder Cup.

As McGinley says - the Europeans play for each other and its having players like Westwood in that keeps in all together. In 6 or 8 years time that will be down to player like Gmac and Poults as they will be the experienced ones.

You keep forcusing on form - that goes right out of the window when the Ryder Cup happens.

I really would suggest you watch the European Ryder Cup vids from the last 20 years and then watch the stories of the players because it appears you dont understand the make up of what makes the European Team so strong.

McGinley basically said in an interview recently that Westwood was great to have in the changing rooms.
Obviously a football term.
However it seems that hes worth a point or 2 being around the team.
Only time will tell,but I believe he will deliver something in the points department.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Really not sure I can agree with this, I think a few experienced heads bring a lot to the team. It's the same in any team game, you would never see a top football team without at least a couple of older guys in it to 'mentor' the younger ones.

There is not exactly a shortage of older heads in the team without Westwood, including Major winners.

 

[Hacker Khan]

He's Australian.

Thanks for that buddy.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As you have been told on many, many occasions constantly repeating the same opinion does not make you right.

Some of the statements now being made about his leadership credentials border on the ludicrous and some may, for all we know, have been "stage managed".

As I keep saying I hope he has a very successful Ryder Cup campaign but that does not alter my feeling that he is a very lucky man to be part of the team and could have been better employed as a Vice Captain.

As for watching the videos of the last 20 years all I can say is that they are not, nor were they intended to be, very insightful. I have watched Ryder Cup matches both live and on television for nearly 40 years and the videos produced, usually by Sky TV, of the more recent ones really have not added to my understanding or appreciation of the event.

Then im guessing i can only be thankful we have people in place who do know what they are doing and fully understand the team

Its clear the reasons why Westwood was picked - the person doing the picking has stated exactly why he was picked and you dismiss it

Ill refer to the person who knows what he is talking about - Paul McGinley.

I havce just stated not only muy opinion but what fellow pros and Ryder Cup people have stated - i guess you could call them facts.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I havce just stated not only muy opinion but what fellow pros and Ryder Cup people have stated - i guess you could call them facts.

So how does an opinion become a fact.

What McGinley and these other pro's have stated are their opinions, nothing more, nothing less. Informed opinions maybe but still opinions and not facts.

The only facts so far offered in this discussion have surrounded Westwood's form but as they did not ultimately support your argument you decided they should be dismissed.

May I respectfully suggest you look at the respective definitions of facts and opinions.

 

[Val]

Really ? Top 20 in US Pga and WGC

What did Poulter , Simpson , Bjorn , Bradley , Kuchar even Phil Mickleson


Can clearly see your not Westwoods biggest fan but it's gets to see everyone getting behind them

Westwood has been poor all year, don't let 2 events cloud that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So how does an opinion become a fact.

What McGinley and these other pro's have stated are their opinions, nothing more, nothing less. Informed opinions maybe but still opinions and not facts.

The only facts so far offered in this discussion have surrounded Westwood's form but as they did not ultimately support your argument you decided they should be dismissed.

May I respectfully suggest you look at the respective definitions of facts and opinions.

They are stating facts when they say that Westwood is an influence around the changing room

Paul McGinley is stating a fact when he gives his reasons why he picks a player

They are stating a fact when they say how well Westwood gets on with other players. Facts confirmed by other players when speaking about Westwood.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Westwood has been poor all year, don't let 2 events cloud that.

I wouldnt mind winning over a million and having a poor year and as well as an ET title.

He hasnt had his best year there is no doubt about that - all depends on whats standards he is being judged against.

 

[Val]

I wouldnt mind winning over a million and having a poor year and as well as an ET title.

He hasnt had his best year there is no doubt about that - all depends on whats standards he is being judged against.

Judge him by his own, he is in danger of falling out of the top 50 in WR, not good for a former no1