RULE 3.2 when a hole is not played

tommo

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Hi there, is it acceptable for someone with an established handicap to go out on an 18 hole course , play 11 holes and leave the course with the last seven holes unplayed and use the score for handicapping ? light was good, player not injured or ill, match did not finish early and no holes were out of play , we have a player who has done this on a dozen occasions , I don't believe retiring to the bar to be a valid reason for not completing a handicap counting round. The other player believes you only need to play 10 holes to qualify as a handicap counting score and dont need a valid reason to complete the round. Who is correct ??
 

rulefan

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Hi there, is it acceptable for someone with an established handicap to go out on an 18 hole course , play 11 holes and leave the course with the last seven holes unplayed and use the score for handicapping ? light was good, player not injured or ill, match did not finish early and no holes were out of play , we have a player who has done this on a dozen occasions , I don't believe retiring to the bar to be a valid reason for not completing a handicap counting round. The other player believes you only need to play 10 holes to qualify as a handicap counting score and dont need a valid reason to complete the round. Who is correct ??
Rule 7.1b(ii) may help.
 

wjemather

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Hi there, is it acceptable for someone with an established handicap to go out on an 18 hole course , play 11 holes and leave the course with the last seven holes unplayed and use the score for handicapping ? light was good, player not injured or ill, match did not finish early and no holes were out of play , we have a player who has done this on a dozen occasions , I don't believe retiring to the bar to be a valid reason for not completing a handicap counting round. The other player believes you only need to play 10 holes to qualify as a handicap counting score and dont need a valid reason to complete the round. Who is correct ??
Rule 3.2: "If the reason for a player not playing a hole, or holes, is considered invalid, the Handicap Committee may consider applying a penalty score (see Rule 7.1)."

Rule 7.1b(ii): "The Handicap Committee... should consider disciplinary procedures for players who repeatedly... fail to complete rounds."
Guidance 7.1b: "For... repeated failure to complete rounds, consideration should be given to commencing disciplinary proceedings against the player. These could include the imposition of sanctions against the player, withdrawal of Handicap Index or the freezing of the Handicap Index for a period of time."

From your description of the situation, it appears that they are repeatedly setting out with no intention of completing 18 holes. As such, their reasons for regularly not completing seven holes are invalid. They should be advised to submit 9-hole scores instead, or start completing their rounds. If they do not, the committee should be taking action.
 

Alan Clifford

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Rule 3.2: "If the reason for a player not playing a hole, or holes, is considered invalid, the Handicap Committee may consider applying a penalty score (see Rule 7.1)."

Rule 7.1b(ii): "The Handicap Committee... should consider disciplinary procedures for players who repeatedly... fail to complete rounds."

From your description of the situation, it appears that they are repeatedly setting out with no intention of completing 18 holes. As such, their reasons for regularly not completing seven holes are invalid. They should be advised to submit 9-hole scores instead, or start completing their rounds. If they do not, the committee should be taking action.


That would seem to be a valid answer.
 

fundy

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Rule 3.2: "If the reason for a player not playing a hole, or holes, is considered invalid, the Handicap Committee may consider applying a penalty score (see Rule 7.1)."

Rule 7.1b(ii): "The Handicap Committee... should consider disciplinary procedures for players who repeatedly... fail to complete rounds."
Guidance 7.1b: "For... repeated failure to complete rounds, consideration should be given to commencing disciplinary proceedings against the player. These could include the imposition of sanctions against the player, withdrawal of Handicap Index or the freezing of the Handicap Index for a period of time."

From your description of the situation, it appears that they are repeatedly setting out with no intention of completing 18 holes. As such, their reasons for regularly not completing seven holes are invalid. They should be advised to submit 9-hole scores instead, or start completing their rounds. If they do not, the committee should be taking action.

Out of interest if they submit a 9 hole card, but then play 10 and 11 before finishing, will there be a different issue with them?
 

wjemather

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Out of interest if they submit a 9 hole card, but then play 10 and 11 before finishing, will there be a different issue with them?
No, there's no issue with playing additional holes outside of those pre-registered for handicapping. It's the same as just playing a few holes without pre-registering at all.
 

williamalex1

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I would love to guarantee that I could complete 18 holes and be competitive all the time.
But sadly my body sometimes just says no more, stop now.
But I've paid my fees and dues for 40 years, I'll decide when I stop entering competitions that I pay to play in.
When I can't keep up with the game infront, that's when I'll chuck it.
 

NearHull

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I police the Unsatisfied Score Returns once or twice a week and send an e mail containing the following paragraph to all members who have an outstanding round registered but not returned. The wording came from the Area Handicap Advisor.
May I also remind you that all registered rounds must return a score. It is the player’s responsibility when registering a round that they intend to complete the round after taking into consideration the weather , daylight available etc. Non completion of a round is acceptable only in exceptional circumstances ( eg illness, course closure, lightening). If that occurs, then the round is submitted with the holes not played left blank.​
 

IanM

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I wonder what the motives for this are? I guess it is his business. Might be a genuine, "I am nipping out for a few holes and trying to to comply with the "put in all your scores mantra."


Rule 7.1b(ii): "The Handicap Committee... should consider disciplinary procedures for players who repeatedly... fail to complete rounds."
Guidance 7.1b: "For... repeated failure to complete rounds, consideration should be given to commencing disciplinary proceedings against the player. These could include the imposition of sanctions against the player, withdrawal of Handicap Index or the freezing of the Handicap Index for a period of time."

Genuine question.... was 7.1b referring to competition golf? ... and written pre WHS ??? If so, it might need an update now! If you go out and register for handicap, I see the sense in having to stipulate 9 or 18.

Me? I play club comps on a Saturday. All midweek stuff (unless a formal comp) is practice/fun and I never register it for handicap. The day I get told this isn't acceptable is the day I stop paying my subs! :)
 

wjemather

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I wonder what the motives for this are? I guess it is his business. Might be a genuine, "I am nipping out for a few holes and trying to to comply with the "put in all your scores mantra."
Not really; the handicap committee have a responsibility to establish why this has been happening and take action to make it stop. Simple education should do it, but disciplinary measures are available if necessary.

Genuine question.... was 7.1b referring to competition golf? ... and written pre WHS ??? If so, it might need an update now! If you go out and register for handicap, I see the sense in having to stipulate 9 or 18.
This is part of the WHS Rules of Handicapping, and relates to all golf pre-registered for handicapping.

Me? I play club comps on a Saturday. All midweek stuff (unless a formal comp) is practice/fun and I never register it for handicap. The day I get told this isn't acceptable is the day I stop paying my subs! :)
By the time the rules/guidance changes to "submit all rounds", I expect most people will be used to the idea that we no longer have an archaic "competition handicap system" but an "all golf handicap system" and will be doing it anyway (a significant number of our seniors already do).
 

IanM

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By the time the rules/guidance changes to "submit all rounds", I expect most people will be used to the idea that we no longer have an archaic "competition handicap system" but an "all golf handicap system" and will be doing it anyway (a significant number of our seniors already do).

Not a chance of this happening, or if it did, being enforceable? Wife and I nipping out for a few holes after work tonight, might play 7, 12 or 18. Who knows? Do you ever see a time where this has to be recorded? How? Who know's we're out? Will you be hiding in the bushes to film people "hitting balls without permission!":ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Now I say that, I guess you might!

ALL GOLF?? Really? I wonder where that stops and starts?-)

I think your other two points are fair enough.

  1. If the guy is stipulating these as rounds to count, why finish after random holes?
  2. WHS Rules of Handicapping, and relates to all golf pre-registered for handicapping. Fair enough!

But, point 2 contradicts the point at the top of this post. Unless it is a stated objective of the governing body to enforce an ALL GOLF counts approach in the future. If so, I will wait with amusement to hear the scope of what this actually means and how it can be enforced. :)

Just imagine. You get a 2 week ban from your club for playing a few holes without adding it to your playing record. Really?
 

Neilds

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Might be a bit more helpful if the OP came back and clarified if this is in competitions? We all know we should return all cards under WHS but this is never going to happen. It is stupid to think people should submit part cards when popping out for a few holes after work but different if the OP’s golfer is walking off during a medal
 

wjemather

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Not a chance of this happening, or if it did, being enforceable? Wife and I nipping out for a few holes after work tonight, might play 7, 12 or 18. Who knows? Do you ever see a time where this has to be recorded? How? Who know's we're out? Will you be hiding in the bushes to film people "hitting balls without permission!":ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Now I say that, I guess you might!

ALL GOLF?? Really? I wonder where that stops and starts?-)

I think your other two points are fair enough.

  1. If the guy is stipulating these as rounds to count, why finish after random holes?
  2. WHS Rules of Handicapping, and relates to all golf pre-registered for handicapping. Fair enough!

But, point 2 contradicts the point at the top of this post. Unless it is a stated objective of the governing body to enforce an ALL GOLF counts approach in the future. If so, I will wait with amusement to hear the scope of what this actually means and how it can be enforced. :)

Just imagine. You get a 2 week ban from your club for playing a few holes without adding it to your playing record. Really?
As with jurisdictions that already have such provisions, any requirement would only apply to "acceptable scores"; and there are countless ways to make scores not acceptable should people be that horrified by the idea of submitting scores and/or precious about their handicaps.
 

IanM

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As with jurisdictions that already have such provisions, any requirement would only apply to "acceptable scores"; and there are countless ways to make scores not acceptable should people be that horrified by the idea of submitting scores and/or precious about their handicaps.

Are you unable to understand the simple concept that folk sometimes have a game of recreational golf, purely for fun, where no cards or pencils are carried? Or are you saying it should not be permitted?

Crikey, I think you are.
 

wjemather

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Are you unable to understand the simple concept that folk sometimes have a game of recreational golf, purely for fun, where no cards or pencils are carried? Or are you saying it should not be permitted?

Crikey, I think you are.
Absolutely no-one (as far as I know), and certainly not me, is saying this.
 

IanM

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Absolutely no-one (as far as I know), and certainly not me, is saying this.

Apologies, I have clearly misunderstood your meaning in that you said not putting in a card every time I play equates to, "being that horrified by the idea of submitting scores and/or precious about their handicaps. " (in post #15) I thought you meant what the words say.

and in post #12 "By the time the rules/guidance changes to "submit all rounds", I expect most people will be used to the idea that we no longer have an archaic "competition handicap system" but an "all golf handicap system" and will be doing it anyway (a significant number of our seniors already do)."

What is an "all golf handicap system" in reality? Is that your phrase, or part of policy somewhere?
 

wjemather

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Apologies, I have clearly misunderstood your meaning in that you said not putting in a card every time I play equates to, "being that horrified by the idea of submitting scores and/or precious about their handicaps. " (in post #15) I thought you meant what the words say.

and in post #12 "By the time the rules/guidance changes to "submit all rounds", I expect most people will be used to the idea that we no longer have an archaic "competition handicap system" but an "all golf handicap system" and will be doing it anyway (a significant number of our seniors already do)."

What is an "all golf handicap system" in reality? Is that your phrase, or part of policy somewhere?
The implication is that I've yet to hear a reason for not submitting acceptable scores that I don't disagree with; that certainly does not mean that I believe people should not have a choice.

The phrase is my own, and adequately summarises one key aspect of WHS that presents a transitional issue in GB&I (even with the watered down version of WHS we currently have).
 

IanM

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Good show... careful with semantics though..

...so me an the wife nipping over the road for a fun round, no wish to keep score. Acceptable reason or not to submit score? If you think not, how can you then say you think folk should have a choice?

If the Authorities think more cultural change is needed, maybe I should go and offer my services....
 
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