Attesting a Score for Handicap

[Swango1980]

" .....so they'll usually just trust it is all above board.~ - presumably including for unusually high (and low) scores

I was referring to the fact the Committee will have no idea who marked the card, and they'd assume it was a marker they'd consider responsible.

I made no reference to the fact the score itself would appear dodgy. Having said that, even if a player shot one great or one terrible score, it still wouldn't point to anything dodgy. Unless the great score was 60 points or something, maybe an eyebrow would be raised

 

[IanM]

Are all h'cap committees really so sloppy?

Some are. Some are not.

 

[rulefan]

Some are.

May be they are the ones that are causing the complaints about the WH System

 

[IanM]

May be they are the ones that are causing the complaints about the WH System

It's rarely that simple, but they must be contributing

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Are all h'cap committees really so sloppy?

I'm not sure but please remember they are mainly volunteers who are trying to do a good job for the club and members. WHS has added to their workload - particularly the growth of GP rounds vs supplementary,

Before they are castigated further look at what's happening in other sports where grass-roots volunteers are giving up in groves because of criticism and abuse. I know of several clubs who can't find the minimal number of people to form their handicap committee and thus the workload is even higher.

So sloppy - I'm not sure - struggling to do their best more likely.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm not sure but please remember they are mainly volunteers who are trying to do a good job for the club and members. WHS has added to their workload - particularly the growth of GP rounds vs supplementary,

Before they are castigated further look at what's happening in other sports where grass-roots volunteers are giving up in groves because of criticism and abuse. I know of several clubs who can't find the minimal number of people to form their handicap committee and thus the workload is even higher.

So sloppy - I'm not sure - struggling to do their best more likely.

Agree with this completely.

I do find it quite offensive when people on here, people who you'd think would know better and show some empathy, basically slag off Committees when their methodologies in some areas do not meet the standards they'd expect. I suspect there are very few Committee members who volunteer for the job for the glory of it. I suspect most of them do it for free, with no discounts on membership or special treatment. I'm sure they do it because they love their golf, and want to offer their time and skills with the intention of running the club well. The good work often goes unnoticed, but they'll often have the hassle of dealing with the odd difficult situation / member. And then if their practices don't 100% meet the high threshold some expect, rather than looking to understand why this may be the case, and the personal difficulties these clubs / Committee members may have, they just get labelled sloppy.

Some clubs have Committee members who can spend much time at the club and get a lot of work done. Some clubs will have full-time secretaries who can help a lot with the everyday chores. Maybe they can help file GP scorecards or keep track of those that have signed in at club. Or just do many other helpful tasks. Whereas at my last club, as Handicap Sec I had to fit that in between working 5 days a week, and wanting to play a bit of golf at the weekend amongst other things. I basically dedicated time on a Sunday evening to go through GP scores and scores for new handicap from new members, and other things like deal with member queries, create information to be posted at club about WHS, etc. With WHS, this could take me several hours. Constantly chasing players who pre-reg and never submitted a score, or submitted a score but didn't pre-reg, or whose electronic score did not match their scorecard at all, or who did not sign card, etc. All that, plus the regular filing and processing of all the valid scores. It was a nightmare. There was only me doing it as well, as absolutely no other member was interested in spending time doing such things. We were a cheap club, which didn't really have a "club feel" as the clubhouse was also a public bar / restaurant, so most members only joined to play cheap golf. As long as the club had a person to arrange comps, collect money and sort handicaps then it functioned as members wanted, and there was no desire to have a "Handicap Committee". There were also lots of politics with the club Owner, most of whom wanted to stay away from as much as they possibly could.

I've no doubt there are hundreds of clubs out there that have their own difficulties, and cannot run their Committee in the same way they probably do at clubs like Wentworth and St Andrews. And honestly, I'd imagine some of the biggest clubs in the UK probably have some less than perfect practices if you were to look into it. But, to label them sloppy is just ignorant. They MIGHT be sloppy. They COULD be devious, if they are actively going out of their way to disobey the rules (e.g. forcing players to submit good scores after round finished). They COULD be careless, for example making rules decisions without taking care to check the actual Rules Book first and getting it wrong. But, I'd say in most cases it is simply that they lack the resources, people or time to do things with perfection. And so they compromise a system so that they can act in a way that allows their club to function as best as they think it can.

 

[rulefan]

I'm not sure but please remember they are mainly volunteers who are trying to do a good job for the club and members. WHS has added to their workload - particularly the growth of GP rounds vs supplementary,

Before they are castigated further look at what's happening in other sports where grass-roots volunteers are giving up in groves because of criticism and abuse. I know of several clubs who can't find the minimal number of people to form their handicap committee and thus the workload is even higher.

So sloppy - I'm not sure - struggling to do their best more likely.

I'm sure some clubs are suffering a lack of volunteers but arguably the increased availability of apps, PSIs and the associated software should (and has in my case) significantly reduce the management of score input and card checking.
I sometimes wonder why some members frequently complain about 'the system' and its affect on their score/results but make no effort to get involved in the management of 'the system'. Fortunately my club does not have that problem. We have 5 'worker' members with both captains and the pro 'in attendance' on our comps & h'caps committee.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm sure some clubs are suffering a lack of volunteers but arguably the increased availability of apps, PSIs and the associated software should (and has in my case) significantly reduce the management of score input and card checking.
I sometimes wonder why some members frequently complain about 'the system' and its affect on their score/results but make no effort to get involved in the management of 'the system'. Fortunately my club does not have that problem. We have 5 'worker' members with both captains and the pro 'in attendance' on our comps & h'caps committee.

That is easy. Same way many many people on this forum could spend hours and hours debating golf related subjects on these threads, yet never have any desire to officially join their golf club Committee.

It is easy to express your feelings as and when you want. That is completely different to committing your services to a Committee, and having a responsibility, or many responsibilities that you can't just run away from as and when you want.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I'm sure some clubs are suffering a lack of volunteers but arguably the increased availability of apps, PSIs and the associated software should (and has in my case) significantly reduce the management of score input and card checking.
I sometimes wonder why some members frequently complain about 'the system' and its affect on their score/results but make no effort to get involved in the management of 'the system'. Fortunately my club does not have that problem. We have 5 'worker' members with both captains and the pro 'in attendance' on our comps & h'caps committee.

You make a good point re the march of technology - however, with an ageing playing population this can be a dual-edged sword. My point was that with the increase in GP rounds specifically (we average over 200 pcm) these cards need to be checked to see if they were entered into the system correctly. We are running at an error rate of 6-7% based on incorrect scores entered, wrong tees, wrong course, etc. Without intervention these would remain on the system and give wrong handicaps to those who make a mistake.

I readily accept things are better wrt competitions and score entry but event those have their challenges with NR's etc.

So technology can help but it isn't the panacea for all of the challenges of a handicap committee.

 

[rulefan]

That is easy. Same way many many people on this forum could spend hours and hours debating golf related subjects on these threads, yet never have any desire to officially join their golf club Committee.

It is easy to express your feelings as and when you want. That is completely different to committing your services to a Committee, and having a responsibility, or many responsibilities that you can't just run away from as and when you want.

I wonder what %age of club playing membership are retired and now would seem to have the time.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

That is easy. Same way many many people on this forum could spend hours and hours debating golf related subjects on these threads, yet never have any desire to officially join their golf club Committee.

It is easy to express your feelings as and when you want. That is completely different to committing your services to a Committee, and having a responsibility, or many responsibilities that you can't just run away from as and when you want.

Having been on a golf club committee. There is no chance I would ever do it again.

Far too many people on them who have nothing better to do with their time and are there for the power trip rather than for the betterment of the club.

 

[wjemather]

You make a good point re the march of technology - however, with an ageing playing population this can be a dual-edged sword. My point was that with the increase in GP rounds specifically (we average over 200 pcm) these cards need to be checked to see if they were entered into the system correctly. We are running at an error rate of 6-7% based on incorrect scores entered, wrong tees, wrong course, etc. Without intervention these would remain on the system and give wrong handicaps to those who make a mistake.

The joys of having 3 x 9-hole courses to choose from!

 

[NearHull]

Regarding volunteering for the Competition and Handicap Committees. I sit as a Director of our members‘ club ( it being a plc) with responsibility for Competition and Handicaps ( amongst other things) and as such I chair the Competition and Handicap Committee. What I found worked for me, was to to seek out those members who always seemed to voice constructive and considered opinions either in the bar or at the AGM/EGM and invite them to sit on the Competition and Handicap Committee. I have yet to be refused, and they willingly joined - those ( valued) members have stuck with it for the past three years- but I don’t think that they would have put themselves forward as volunteers.

 

[Swango1980]

I wonder what %age of club playing membership are retired and now would seem to have the time.

At my old club, they actually had a pretty good and active Senior's section. However, very few Seniors would take part in the Main Club, and just stick to their Wednesday golf. If they were the type who wanted to help on Committee, they would tend to take part within the Senior's section Committee. There were one or 2 excellent Seniors on the Main Club Committee over the years, but never a large amount.

At my new club, the handicap sec is a Senior, and as I said before, seems to be at the club regularly doing what he needs to do. My new club is also quite a nice place to simply be, so it is quite pleasant coming up, having a copy, picking up files, etc. At my last club, it was not a nice place to be at all, so it would be a real grind for anyone, even a Senior with plenty of time, to have to spend more time than they need in the place.

 

[doublebogey7]

Having been on a golf club committee. There is no chance I would ever do it again.

Far too many people on them who have nothing better to do with their time and are there for the power trip rather than for the betterment of the club.

Seems to me that is exactly why you should be doing it.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Seems to me that is exactly why you should be doing it.

I honestly can’t be doing with spending my time and effort dealing with people who would struggle to run a bath.

Plus being chairman of a football club is enough fun without getting involved in a golf club again.

All I want from golf now is to turn up, play my golf on a well kept course, have a drink and something to eat after and go home.

 

[nickjdavis]

Having been on a golf club committee. There is no chance I would ever do it again.

I said this after my first 4 year stint on the committee.

I left the club, thoroughly fed up with the balance of committee work v actual playing golf.

I returned 10 months later.

A year later I was asked to be Captain...well....you don't turn down an honour like that easily.

After six more years I was just about done with my committee duties in 2019...had nearly made it out of the escape tunnel. Then some Wombats came up with the idea of a World Handicapping Scheme. Then some folks who'd consumed some Wombats unleashed a nasty contagious virus upon the World...perfectly synchronised with the launch of the other Wombats idea. With a list of volunteers as long as my old chap on a winters morning, the club once more turned to me to step up as Captain and steer the club through the coming storm.

I'm just about off the committee now.

A power trip? NFL.

Never again.

Until next time.