Refusal to mark and lift ball

[D-S]

In a match, when asked to mark a ball off the green as it potentially interfered with his opponents line of play the player refused on the grounds that he didn’t have to as the ball wasn’t on the green. I feel certain that this is a serious breach and DQ but would like to be pointed in the right directions in the rules. Is it just broadly covered in 1.2a ?

 

[Oldbutwise]

All covered by Rule 15.3b.

b. Ball Anywhere on Course Interfering with Play​

If another player reasonably believes your ball might interfere with his or her play:

• The other player may require you to mark the spot and lift your ball, which must not be cleaned (except when you lifted it from the putting green).
• If you do not mark the spot before lifting your ball, or you clean the lifted ball when not allowed, you get one penalty stroke.
• In stroke play only, if you are required to lift your ball under this Rule, you may play first instead.

Penalty for breach of the rule (eg refusal) in strokeplay - 2 strokes. In matchplay - loss of hole.

 

[Neilds]

Rule 15.3b states:

(1) Meaning of Interference by Another Player’s Ball. Interference under this Rule exists when another player’s ball at rest:

• Might interfere with the player’s area of intended stance or area of intended swing,
• Is on or close to the player’s line of play such that, given the intended stroke, there is a reasonable chance the player’s ball in motion could hit that ball, or
• Is close enough to distract the player in making the stroke.

and when interference occurs (my words)

• The player may require the other player to mark the spot and lift the ball (see Rule 14.1), and the ball must not be cleaned (except when lifted from the putting green under Rule 13.1b) and must be replaced on its original spot (see Rule 14.2).

Not sure what happens if the player refuses to mark the ball so over to the other experts for this bit

 

[Steven Rules]

The general penalty applies if the player refuses to lift their ball or move their ball-marker when required to do so and a stroke is then made by the other player whose play might have been helped or interfered with. Rule 15.3

 

[Steven Rules]

It's the last bullet point in 15.3 as well as in 15.3b.

 

[Swango1980]

Did this actually happen, or is is hypothetical?

If it happened, I'm trying to work out why on earth anybody would refuse the request? I mean, what would they do if their ball was lying a millimeter in front of their opponents ball?

 

[salfordlad]

Did this actually happen, or is is hypothetical?

If it happened, I'm trying to work out why on earth anybody would refuse the request? I mean, what would they do if their ball was lying a millimeter in front of their opponents ball?

It seems this person wrongly believed they are not required to lift the intervening ball unless it is on the green. Which is the way 15.3a works for a 'helping' ball, but it doesn't apply to 15.3b for an interfering ball or ball-marker, there is no limitation in those cases.

In a match, when asked to mark a ball off the green as it potentially interfered with his opponents line of play the player refused on the grounds that he didn’t have to as the ball wasn’t on the green. I feel certain that this is a serious breach and DQ but would like to be pointed in the right directions in the rules. Is it just broadly covered in 1.2a ?

1.2a serious breach only comes into scope if it is a repeating refusal to lift in multiple situations, see 1.2a/1. In your OP, as others note, it is a general penalty when you make a stroke with the interfering ball not removed. As always in match play, you need to announce your intention to seek a ruling and take it to a referee/Committee at the first opportunity.

 

[D-S]

That you as ever for the replies - very helpful and educational as usual.

@Swango - yes apparently it did happen and neither player knew the rules.

 

[rulefan]

What can the player do if the other player categorically refuses?
Discounting any penalty to the other player of course.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Why would someone refuse to mark and move the ball

 

[D-S]

Why would someone refuse to mark and move the ball

Ignorance of the rules.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Ignorance of the rules.

So he thought that he wasn’t allowed to do it ?

 

[D-S]

So he thought that he wasn’t allowed to do it ?

No, he, apparently, didn’t think he had to do it when the ball was off the green. This is all the information I have been given at this stage.

 

[Neilds]

Why would someone refuse to mark and move the ball

Probably for the same reason that some people won't tend the flag

 

[rulefan]

What can the player do if the other player categorically refuses?
Discounting any penalty to the other player of course.

Can/may the player move the other player's ball?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

No, he, apparently, didn’t think he had to do it when the ball was off the green. This is all the information I have been given at this stage.

Didn't think he had to is different to didn't think he could. The person doesn't come out of it well. As @Arthur Wedge asked, why wouldn't you? They've embarrassed themselves there.

Good to see the answer, if I'm ever unlucky enough to play with someone who has that attitude.

 

[Deleted member 35927]

One of those things that doesnt happen to often, but I'm amazed someone would refuse. If I have to do it, I'll put the ball down elsewhere to avoid accidently cleaning it.

 

[rulie]

Can/may the player move the other player's ball?

I think you know the answer(s) to this.
stroke play - yes, no penalty incurred
match play - not without a one stroke penalty (unless permission from ball's owner)

 

[rulefan]

I think you know the answer(s) to this.
stroke play - yes, no penalty incurred
match play - not without a one stroke penalty (unless permission from ball's owner)

And the appropriate Rule numbers?

 

[woofers]

And the appropriate Rule numbers?

9.6 and 9.5b ?