R&A survey to tackle the pace of play problem

[Doon frae Troon]

We a were a lad......................2.5 to 3 hour rounds. One club medal a month, golfers played mainly for enjoyment.

Nowadays..............................5 hour rounds, 12 competitions a month, many golfers look like they don't enjoy playing.

 

[delc]

Hand on heart I haven't noticed anyone mimicking championship play. What on earth is that?

When players copy what they see on televised pro tour events, including long and involved pre-shot routines a la Keegan Bradley, and treating every putt as though 'it's this one to win The Open Championship'!

 

[richart]

Apart from in matchplay, forget whose honour it is, just tee off when ready.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Apart from in matchplay, forget whose honour it is, just tee off when ready.

That is one simple solution - the problem is some wont tee off and some get offended if somenone tees off and its not their honour

 

[Hacker Khan]

That is one simple solution - the problem is some wont tee off and some get offended if somenone tees off and its not their honour

But I am sure there will always be someone offended by whatever measure you try and do to sort out this problem. After all it's golf, and with the best will in the world someone will always sight tradition and etiquette as a reason not to change a thing.

I can't see an issue at all in bounce games. Not sure if there is some kind of psychological advantage to going first in comps, if so then possibly keep it as it is for comps. Or you could ask at the start of the round if everyone is happy to hit when ready and if so do it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Psychological advantage ? possibly in match play yet but in single stroke play - nah

I have had an argument ( no surprise there ) with a seniors capt in a medal - would always wait to make the card when we got to the tee and phaff about even when his honour so i just went a teed off anyway whilst he was marking the card because the group beind where starting to get held up - he wasnt happy and demanded that non one tees off whilst it his honour - i just told him we will if he isnt ready to tee off when it is his turn.

 

[duncan mackie]

With reference to question 26, some of those ideas they have regarding slow are ridiculous. I have grouped them under different headings. I have then highlighted in red what I think really causes slow play.


THE CLUB CAN SORT THIS OUT
Length of rough
Green speed
Hole locations
Starting gaps too small
Players using tees that are too difficult

PLAYERS CAN SORT THIS OUT

Players thinking they can reach the green
Player pre-shot routines
Players marking their card when it is their turn
Poor etiquette
Players mimicking televised Championship play
Unnecessary marking and lifting on the putting green
Lack of knowledge of the Rules

HAS TO BE DONE OR CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT

Needing to repair old plug marks on the green
Visitors
Four balls
Weather conditions
Congested Course
Bad Play

TOO EXPENSIVE TO CHANGE OR IMPLEMENT
Course length
Course difficulty

snap :thup:

basic rough length is the single biggest factor for all golfers - in the almost annual debate on slow play in late spring we went over all this stuff in committee (again); we ended up reducing the cut height by 1" and the rough mowing cycle by 1 day and bingo - the issue disappeared overnight! There was no discernible impact on members scores.

 

[duncan mackie]

Hand on heart I haven't noticed anyone mimicking championship play. What on earth is that?

as delc has expanded plus endless marking and aligning the ball on the green. The key being when you politely pick people up on the time they are taking they respond with "X (insert relevant tour pro) does exactly this all the time".

the problem with the TV coverage is that there's generally no context as to when a group is out of position (holding people up!) and therefore whether their antics are filling dead time or contributing to the problem. For televised events I have suggested (in the relevant area in the questionnaire) that there is an overall shot clock introduced at an appropriate level (higher than that applicable to groups put on the clock currently but shorter than the ' just get on with hitting it' threshold of the general viewer! You would still only get a warning for the first offense so it shouldn't impact a generally fast player who really needs time on a particular shot, but it should lead to a significant reduction in the time some players take to play every shot.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Surely the problem will exist until people start getting told and accepting that they are slow and are causing the problem. Had numerous discussions over the years with golfers about the issue of slow play but amazingly have never met a golfer that admits to being slow. Admitting to being a slow player is as likely as agreeing that you are a bad driver (in the car sense) or hopeless lover. Never seems to happen.

 

[Simbo]

Exactly, you aren't going to win the medal. Treat it as a stableford. Try and get a cut or buffer. Don't hold up the whole course.

A lot of people still aren't aware they can make a cut with a nightmare hole.

You might not win the medal, as most are won by a ridiculously low score, trying to get a cut or buffer is most peoples end goal and therefore requires the same game plan as trying to win the medal.

People NRing after they have passed a salvageable score can also be the cause of people unfairly getting labeled "slow". I see it pretty often at my course where it's a pretty difficult finish. Players play the first 12 holes under medal conditions, i.e, using routines, using honour on the tee, returning to play a lost ball etc etc, get to to 13 decide they aren't going to score well and NR, then hammer the closing holes just to get in, next thing the group behind them who may all be scoring are suddenly a hole or 2 down. As soon as the people in the clubhouse see the 18th hole with no-one on it, all of sudden the group coming next are determined "slow"

IMO there are far to many variables involved in trying to nail down the cause of "slow play"

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Rough is a huge bugbear for me. At a lot of courses, it can be very deep, and not too far offline. As handicap golfers it's inevitable balls will go into stuff that can be very deep. Our second has a patch just left of the fairway which is a no go but with OOB is the safe bale out. Same with the rough dividing 3 & 4, very close to the edge of right at 9.... well you get the picture.

It's going to cause slow play even with provisional in play especially if more than one in the group finds it. I would like to see more semi rough where its thick but findable but will be a half shot penalty. Cuddington was like that the other week when I played with Imurg, Philthe Frag and BlueinMunich. Go off line and it sits down but is visable. There are many others like that and it just seems a more enjoyable experience and quicker

 

[richart]

Rough is a huge bugbear for me. At a lot of courses, it can be very deep, and not too far offline. As handicap golfers it's inevitable balls will go into stuff that can be very deep. Our second has a patch just left of the fairway which is a no go but with OOB is the safe bale out. Same with the rough dividing 3 & 4, very close to the edge of right at 9.... well you get the picture.

It's going to cause slow play even with provisional in play especially if more than one in the group finds it. I would like to see more semi rough where its thick but findable but will be a half shot penalty. Cuddington was like that the other week when I played with Imurg, Philthe Frag and BlueinMunich. Go off line and it sits down but is visable. There are many others like that and it just seems a more enjoyable experience and quicker

Heathland courses should put more some marker posts in the heather. Perhaps courses with long rough should do something similar. If you know within a few yards where your ball is, you have a chance of finding it quickly.

 

[MadAdey]

snap :thup:

basic rough length is the single biggest factor for all golfers - in the almost annual debate on slow play in late spring we went over all this stuff in committee (again); we ended up reducing the cut height by 1" and the rough mowing cycle by 1 day and bingo - the issue disappeared overnight! There was no discernible impact on members scores.

I think places should stop being lazy and sort the rough. A 6 foot first cut, then a second cut of ankle deep rough is all you need. The rough is there to make your next shot difficult due to missing the fairway not loose it in knee deep rough for being 5 yards wide.

It's medal day and the are 14 par 4/5s. It's more than feasible to say that at least 12 times in a round a 3-ball will miss the fairway, if they use their allotted 5 mins each then that's 1 hour used searching for balls 10 foot from the fairway. So sorting the rough will without doubt quicken rounds up.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think places should stop being lazy and sort the rough. A 6 foot first cut, then a second cut of ankle deep rough is all you need. The rough is there to make your next shot difficult due to missing the fairway not loose it in knee deep rough for being 5 yards wide.

It's medal day and the are 14 par 4/5s. It's more than feasible to say that at least 12 times in a round a 3-ball will miss the fairway, if they use their allotted 5 mins each then that's 1 hour used searching for balls 10 foot from the fairway. So sorting the rough will without doubt quicken rounds up.

Sounds so easy when its written down doesn't it. I don't understand why clubs persist in this knee deep rough so close and agree that as long as it's half a shot penal, especially if it sits down then find it, and hit it without wasting ages looking for it to start with

 

[delc]

Our club insists on just letting our rough grow in the summer until it's waist high. If your ball goes into the stuff you probably won't find it, and even if you do you have little chance of hacking it back into play. Needless to say all the searching can really slow down play, especially in medals. I don't know why clubs do this, unless it's to emulate The Open Championship at 'Car-nasty', but at the Open there are plenty of ball spotters and spectators to find the ball, and the players are generally stronger.

If you ask the club management why they allow the rough to grow, they say:
1) It's to toughen up and beautify the course, and to provide better definition. (I think it just looks scruffy!)
2) Don't hit your ball into the rough then!
3) It's to provide a sanctuary for butterflies and other wild creatures!

I suspect the real reason is so they can employ one less green keeper and save money. However I know that several members have moved to other clubs because they are fed up with our rough! They do cut the rough down once a year in the Autumn, so our course is nice to play again at the moment. :angry:

 

[Imurg]

Our club insists on just letting our rough grow in the summer until it's waist high. If your ball goes into the stuff you probably won't find it, and even if you do you have little chance of hacking it back into play. Needless to say all the searching can really slow down play,

Although I agree, if the ball is almost certainly not findable and if it is its unplayable why not hit the provisional, give a cursory glance for the original of maybe no more than 20 seconds. Move on if its not obviously visible.
In rough that deep you need the ball to be easily found to be able to play it with any authority.
If its not sitting pretty then you're not getting it out.
A quick look, if its not obvious move on and take the medicine.
Searching in knee high rough for a ball that you either won't find or can't play is a waste of time.

 

[duncan mackie]

Although I agree, if the ball is almost certainly not findable and if it is its unplayable why not hit the provisional, give a cursory glance for the original of maybe no more than 20 seconds. Move on if its not obviously visible.
In rough that deep you need the ball to be easily found to be able to play it with any authority.
If its not sitting pretty then you're not getting it out.
A quick look, if its not obvious move on and take the medicine.
Searching in knee high rough for a ball that you either won't find or can't play is a waste of time.

I completely agree with everything you say....but bizarrely this is where stableford and matchplay become the slow formats!

It is frequently the case that if you can find it and somehow play it you may score; but 3 off the tee is a waste of time because you are extremely unlikely to score.

in medal play many will just accept the 'at worst 1 shot over best result if finding ball and probably better ' argument

am-am format is even worse as everyone thinks they have an interest in finding everyone's ball - doesn't matter how much you tell them to get on with their own play/search!

All of which is why long rough

 

[c1973]

Rough is a huge bugbear for me. At a lot of courses, it can be very deep, and not too far offline. As handicap golfers it's inevitable balls will go into stuff that can be very deep. Our second has a patch just left of the fairway which is a no go but with OOB is the safe bale out. Same with the rough dividing 3 & 4, very close to the edge of right at 9.... well you get the picture.

It's going to cause slow play even with provisional in play especially if more than one in the group finds it. I would like to see more semi rough where its thick but findable but will be a half shot penalty. Cuddington was like that the other week when I played with Imurg, Philthe Frag and BlueinMunich. Go off line and it sits down but is visable. There are many others like that and it just seems a more enjoyable experience and quicker

Kind of agree about the rough. Rough should be penal, but it should cost you yardage and accuracy, not 5 minutes and a ball. Fair enough if you miss the fairway by a country mile, you can't argue about that.

Played at Royal Dornoch recently and if you went offline then 9 times out of ten you still had a shot, albeit a tricky one that would leave you happy with bogey (very happy in my book). That's one of the best courses on the planet and they don't need 3ft of rough to give you a test. 36 holes and I lost 2 balls, had a terrific test of my game and thoroughly enjoyed myself, that's the way golf should be.

 

[Leereed]

In bad weather change formats to stableford.And set course up for conditions if wet and cold get tee's pushed up.At most people's level and mine rough only needs to be a few inch deep to stop you getting correct contact.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Kind of agree about the rough. Rough should be penal, but it should cost you yardage and accuracy, not 5 minutes and a ball. Fair enough if you miss the fairway by a country mile, you can't argue about that.

Played at Royal Dornoch recently and if you went offline then 9 times out of ten you still had a shot, albeit a tricky one that would leave you happy with bogey (very happy in my book). That's one of the best courses on the planet and they don't need 3ft of rough to give you a test. 36 holes and I lost 2 balls, had a terrific test of my game and thoroughly enjoyed myself, that's the way golf should be.

This is my point. Some areas of the thick stuff we have are way off line and if you go in it, then you deserve to be hitting three off the but others are so close to the fairway with perhaps only 5-10 yards of semi separating the fairway and the deep stuff. For handicap golfers this doesn't seem a logical move in terms of keeping play moving. I'm all for good (tough) tests of golf for events like club champs etc but you can do that with strategic pin placements