Pace of play obsessions

[jamielaing]

Just read a couple of threads and as always there are comments of 'if everyone did that....'

I love how anything always gets pace of play comments. Maybe we should all stop reading putts, no practice swings, no assessing lies. If we set a minimum jog speed between shots we could all get round in 1hr45.

I appreciate slow play is an issue in golf. I appreciate we should all be looking to keep up with the group in front. But when did golf's sole purpose be trying to get round as quick as possible? Surely we should be trying to play well. Not overly worried about the time it takes. When I play golf I allow extra time on each side of the round. It means I can actually enjoy my round and not be worrying about being held up. Bare in mind, this is your hobby. You do this to enjoy yourself. Surely more time with your mates, out in nice surroundings, doing what we love is a good thing?

I am sick of hearing about slow play off people. Golf takes time.

*I am in no way advocating that we should slow down, I don't want 5 hour rounds. But are we not getting a little overly obsessed with this?*

 

[Marshy77]

Great post and I agree.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Some sensible points but unfortunately there are too many people set in their ways who mark their cards on the greens, leave their trolleys in poor places, take 5-10 minutes looking for balls and spend an age getting ready to play a shot. If no-one is behind you then do what you want at your own speed. But you have to show consideration for other people playing the game and that simply does not happen in golf or life in general.

 

[Hobbit]

I played yesterday, and on quite a tricky course. I haven'y got a clue if we got round in 3.5 hours or 4.5 hours. We weren't held up, nor did we hold anyone up. Once back in the clubhouse there were no moans from any of the groups about too slow/quick.

Thinking back to the times there's been a discussion on pace of play in the bar someone said, "you've been sat in here for nearly 2 hours having a few beers. If you'd been half an hour quicker, just what would you have missed?" I often find it amusing listening to the bar talk from people about slow play, and occasionally ask how long they took and how long they've been in the bar... TBH, unless its been ridiculously slow, and there a couple of holes gap, whats the point in stressing about it?

 

[pokerjoke]

Totally agree it’s getting on my nerves.
Most people work all week and get stressed why carry that into your golf.

 

[patricks148]

The main problem is its the pace of play this is killing the game, nothing puts people off more than standing around for ages waiting on the group in front.

there are comps now i won't play because of POP, why would i want to stand around taking 5 hours when the round shouldn't take more that 3 and a half. of course there are places due to the layout it takes longer, but lack of consideration and copying pro's antics are two of the things that i don't like about golf.


its not for the fun of it they brought in Ready golf, only 3 mins to look for a ball and the time limit you should take your shot by.

 

[fundy]

Dont think its obsession, its about enjoyment of the game being spoiled by standing about waiting hole after hole due to other peoples selfish tendencies. Doesnt matter to me if a round take 3 hrs or 4 1/2 hrs what bothers me is if its constantly start stop waiting over shots. We all see it slightly differently but a bit of consideration for others never goes amiss

 

[Orikoru]

I agree. Too many people on here throwing in daft comments like 'nobody should take more than 2 and a half hours to play 18 holes' and other such rubbish.

If I'm playing a four-ball I expect it to take about 4 hours, three-ball 3.5 hours, two-ball 3 hours. We don't faff around much in our group, we play at our pace, we often catch the group in front, but I don't really worry about it too much. We always let through faster groups so no issue really.

'Speed Golf' is a separate sport now, I think some might be better served taking that up.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Golf at its best just flows. No hold ups, play, walk, play etc. When you are stood still waiting for some Herbert to take 6 practice swings, mark their card on the green, put their bag in the wrong place etc, that irritates as it stilts the flow. A flowing 4 ball can take 4 1/2 hours and it feels like a breeze. A stilted 3 ball on the same course can take 4 hours (I'm using my own course in my head as an example) That is half an hour less but it feels worse.

The above is why the bar argument doesn't work, for me. It is about how the round moves along, not just the time on a stop watch.

 

[jamielaing]

I get that slow golf is an issue but it just seems to be taking over. We are now getting to the point where people are rushing just incase they are accused of slow play.

We are becoming obsessed. I recently played a medal at 8am and the first thing out of my FC's mouth was that he hoped we would be round in 3.5 hours as he had plans. He was so determined to get moving he didn't even wait for our 3rd to arrive on the tee as he was taking too long. Bare in mind it was 5 minutes before our tee time! For me, if you are planing things for straight after golf you don't have time for both.

It's your hobby, take your time and relax, you just may enjoy it.

 

[patricks148]

Dont think its obsession, its about enjoyment of the game being spoiled by standing about waiting hole after hole due to other peoples selfish tendencies. Doesnt matter to me if a round take 3 hrs or 4 1/2 hrs what bothers me is if its constantly start stop waiting over shots. We all see it slightly differently but a bit of consideration for others never goes amiss

absolutely, a round taking 4 hours because that how long it takes is fine, but a 4 hour round mostly standing around waiting on the group in front buggering around isn't

 

[jamielaing]

Golf at its best just flows. No hold ups, play, walk, play etc. When you are stood still waiting for some Herbert to take 6 practice swings, mark their card on the green, put their bag in the wrong place etc, that irritates as it stilts the flow. A flowing 4 ball can take 4 1/2 hours and it feels like a breeze. A stilted 3 ball on the same course can take 4 hours (I'm using my own course in my head as an example) That is half an hour less but it feels worse.

The above is why the bar argument doesn't work, for me. It is about how the round moves along, not just the time on a stop watch.

Totally understand this. But we are looking at the extreme guys and we have all played them where they do everything wrong in terms of managing their time. It's infuriating. But people on this forum are pointing at people for being slow because they are taking an extra minute by doing x 3 times a round. I think we can lose an extra 3 minutes and not be too out of place.

And also, maybe that extra minute saves a shank into the woods and a 3 minute search....

 

[jonny1409]

I agree 100% with what the OP says to be honest.

I get out to play golf because I enjoy it, I enjoy the company of my playing partners, and it gives me a 4 - 6 hour release from the stress of family / kids / work etc.
Whilst I actually like to play fairly quickly and get into a rhythm, I also like to get there in plenty of time so I'm not rushing onto the tee and I like to stay for a drink / chat afterwards so I allocate a good block of time.

I'd hate someone in front of me to really not enjoy their same block of time because they thought they had to run around the course like road runner for fear of causing a hold up!
If I have to add half an hour on my round for this then so be it.

If people don't have the time in their lives to allocate 4-5 hours for a game, then Golf isn't the sport for them and they should look for something else.

 

[patricks148]

I get that slow golf is an issue but it just seems to be taking over. We are now getting to the point where people are rushing just incase they are accused of slow play.

We are becoming obsessed. I recently played a medal at 8am and the first thing out of my FC's mouth was that he hoped we would be round in 3.5 hours as he had plans. He was so determined to get moving he didn't even wait for our 3rd to arrive on the tee as he was taking too long. Bare in mind it was 5 minutes before our tee time! For me, if you are planing things for straight after golf you don't have time for both.

It's your hobby, take your time and relax, you just may enjoy it.

thats fine, but what if you get the inconsiderate persons out on the course first??

this happened during our 4 day open last year, first group out too 5 hours as a 3 ball, TBH that is and hour and a half longer than it should have taken. i play in a reg 3 ball in comps and we rarely take longer than 3 if we are out in the first few times, so that was 1 and half hours standing around for the rest of the field, 54 guys being held up on the first day. its wasn't that the course was set up tough, the rough was no existent after the hot dry summer and the rough cutter taking out the rest.

it only takes one group to spoil it for the rest

 

[Grant85]

Just read a couple of threads and as always there are comments of 'if everyone did that....'

I love how anything always gets pace of play comments. Maybe we should all stop reading putts, no practice swings, no assessing lies. If we set a minimum jog speed between shots we could all get round in 1hr45.

I appreciate slow play is an issue in golf. I appreciate we should all be looking to keep up with the group in front. But when did golf's sole purpose be trying to get round as quick as possible? Surely we should be trying to play well. Not overly worried about the time it takes. When I play golf I allow extra time on each side of the round. It means I can actually enjoy my round and not be worrying about being held up. Bare in mind, this is your hobby. You do this to enjoy yourself. Surely more time with your mates, out in nice surroundings, doing what we love is a good thing?

I am sick of hearing about slow play off people. Golf takes time.

*I am in no way advocating that we should slow down, I don't want 5 hour rounds. But are we not getting a little overly obsessed with this?*

There is no magic bullet with regards to pace of play. Everyone has to take responsibility for their own game and play without delay. I'm not saying stop reading putts or taking a practice swing, but 30 or so seconds for any shot is plenty.

I read the old Alistair MacKenzie book, the Spirit of St. Andrews. He was talking about 18 holes at St. Andrews taking 2 hours 45 minutes for a singles matchplay and it being routine to play 2, or even 3 rounds in a day.

Since those days, a LOT of things have happened and not much of it has done anything to speed the game up.

Everyone having trolleys - it's part of the game now, but it takes longer.
Rangefinders - again, part of the game which takes longer and in some cases too long.
Courses extending. i.e. same greens, but tees moved back leading to more of a walk back to the next tee.
Clubs - people now hit the ball much further through the air and consequently there's much more in the way of lost balls than I'm sure was the case in MacKenzie's day.
People wanting to post a score - even in matchplay or Stableford people generally want to hole out and keep track of their score, which takes more time.
As well as the general people taking too long lining up shots, not being ready to hit, deciding to change clubs etc.

None of these things in isolation take ages, but cumulatively golf has gone from a 3 hour game to a 4 hours plus and it's a long way from moving back the other way.

 

[jamielaing]

thats fine, but what if you get the inconsiderate persons out on the course first??

this happened during our 4 day open last year, first group out too 5 hours as a 3 ball, TBH that is and hour and a half longer than it should have taken. i play in a reg 3 ball in comps and we rarely take longer than 3 if we are out in the first few times, so that was 1 and half hours standing around for the rest of the field, 54 guys being held up on the first day. its wasn't that the course was set up tough, the rough was no existent after the hot dry summer and the rough cutter taking out the rest.

it only takes one group to spoil it for the rest

That's different to what I am saying though Patrick. There are people who are slow. We know who they are. The clubs need to combat that. But we, as in amateur players, need to lose the obsession. It's the fore thought of so many of us.

 

[Grant85]

That's different to what I am saying though Patrick. There are people who are slow. We know who they are. The clubs need to combat that. But we, as in amateur players, need to lose the obsession. It's the fore thought of so many of us.

But what happens if there aren't people 'obsessed' and fingering the slow people? Clubs don't exactly have marshalls or officials timing or observing play on a Saturday morning.

Potential if they aren't put under any pressure that the slow people take even longer. This is certainly what would happen in the professional game.

 

[patricks148]

But what happens if there aren't people 'obsessed' and fingering the slow people? Clubs don't exactly have marshalls or officials timing or observing play on a Saturday morning.

Potential if they aren't put under any pressure that the slow people take even longer. This is certainly what would happen in the professional game.

Yep, agree.

its up to every player, clubs can't be relied of to do much about it.

 

[patricks148]

That's different to what I am saying though Patrick. There are people who are slow. We know who they are. The clubs need to combat that. But we, as in amateur players, need to lose the obsession. It's the fore thought of so many of us.

but Jamie, its up to every player to get around the course at a reasonable pace, if you just leave it and say oh relax smell the flowers etc, is that going to improve things?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

If everyone did the 'right things' we would all get round a typical members course in sub 4 hours. No rushing of shots, no sprinting down the fairways, just being ready to play when it's your turn. It's the hanging around that spoils the enjoyment and that is often caused by a lack of consideration.
Interesting that a lot of people say they don't want to rush round when you hear lots of comments about people giving up golf because it's too time consuming.