Practice during round

[Swango1980]

Im easy either way, I have my view on it but Im genuinely interested to know the correct ruling as it doesn't seem to me to be so cut and dried, but wouldn't be the first time ive been wrong.

Thank you, I can respect

not really, getting a little aggressive from some, but im enjoying the discussion

Cheers, a sensible comment.

It's interesting the R&A define when you are between the play of 2 holes in Stableford, and the penalty is clear if you hit a practice stroke between the play of 2 holes. Yet, for those that don't agree with the penalty, it sounds like you feel a play will never be between the play of 2 holes in Stableford, short of announcing to everyone "I've picked up my ball, and so now am between the play of 2 holes"?.

No point in getting personal, aggressive or sensitive on the subject, all I have been doing is quoting the rules as given. As for a rulebook? I've been scouring through the online rules and interpretations throughout, so don't think I'm just writing everything from the top of my head.

 

[chrisd]

Theres no reason for anyone to get aggressive etc, I'm just bemused that you dont take the word of so many people who have given sound rules advice

 

[Deleted member 15344]

the rules state that a player is between 2 holes in Stableford "When the player has holed out, or has picked up after scoring zero points, losing the hole or reaching the maximum score".

Sorry I cropped this from your first post

The player in question didn’t pick up - the ball was lost I believe and he just threw another down and just played the hole , so ultimately the penalty is “illegal drop” which is applied to that hole being played ?

 

[Swango1980]

Theres no reason for anyone to get aggressive etc, I'm just bemused that you dont take the word of so many people who have given sound rules advice

Ditto. I'm also bemused that others don't read my rebuttals on the statements they are quoting. Fair enough if they still believe they are in the right, but at the very least they could accept that the fact I can rebut these fairly easily, the written rules would need more clarification, if their opinions are correct.

I've long realised that, just because golfers interpret a rule in a certain way, doesn't mean I should trust that interpretation. And, in this particular scenario, I cant see a loophole to allow it in rules, nor can i see it as acceptable to actually play a practice stroke but simply say you are continuing the hole by playing from the wrong place in order to get away with it.

 

[robinthehood]

Ditto. I'm also bemused that others don't read my rebuttals on the statements they are quoting. Fair enough if they still believe they are in the right, but at the very least they could accept that the fact I can rebut these fairly easily, the written rules would need more clarification, if their opinions are correct.

I've long realised that, just because golfers interpret a rule in a certain way, doesn't mean I should trust that interpretation. And, in this particular scenario, I cant see a loophole to allow it in rules, nor can i see it as acceptable to actually play a practice stroke but simply say you are continuing the hole by playing from the wrong place in order to get away with it.

The problem I have is that 2 people could do exactly the same thing, but have 2 very different outcomes from a penalty perspective. It doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Swango1980]

Sorry I cropped this from your first post

The player in question didn’t pick up - the ball was lost I believe and he just threw another down and just played the hole , so ultimately the penalty is “illegal drop” which is applied to that hole being played ?[/QUOTE
At the risk of people saying I'm boring them, you have asked the question, so I'll give my interpretation again. (If you are likely to get bored, stop reading this post)

I'd accept it was an illegal drop if they were doing it as they thought they were acting correctly under the rules. Then, you could say this was an innocent mistake and were playing from the wrong place.

If they knew they were doing wrong, but still trying to score, you'd say that was plain cheating and worth DQ.

However, the player had simply given up the hole, accepted they would score no points. But, rather than walk ro next, they dropped a ball and hit it. In my mind that becomes a practice stroke, as they were now in a situation where they were between the play of 2 holes, not still playing the current hole.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

My take is - that I very much doubt anyone bar the odd one person would call it a penalty and also doubt if a rule ref was with the game they would penalise someone - you see it happen all the time as well

It’s the same as the whole “Take your time” being classed as giving advice

 

[Brammall Mac]

Fully agree with Swango80. Clearly stopped playing the hole and used the opportunity to practice. No issue in a knock-about but a clear breach in a qualifier. 2-shot penalty next hole and wouldn’t think twice about it.

 

[Kellfire]

Fully agree with Swango80. Clearly stopped playing the hole and used the opportunity to practice. No issue in a knock-about but a clear breach in a qualifier. 2-shot penalty next hole and wouldn’t think twice about it.

Would love to see you try to enforce this on anyone who knew that you were wrong.

 

[rulefan]

I am awaiting an official ruling

 

[Swango1980]

Would love to see you try to enforce this on anyone who knew that you were wrong.

Assuming that he is wrong, which you have not yet proved. We could simply turn that statement around and say we'd love to see you drop a ball down and hit it while playing with someone who knew you were wrong.

However, I won't say that and mean it, because it is of no use whatsoever to this debate.

 

[Kellfire]

Assuming that he is wrong, which you have not yet proved. We could simply turn that statement around and say we'd love to see you drop a ball down and hit it while playing with someone who knew you were wrong.

However, I won't say that and mean it, because it is of no use whatsoever to this debate.

You’re a keeper.

 

[fundy]

some of you must just be a joy to play with, I bet theyre queueing up to be in your 4ball lol

 

[Pin-seeker]

Blimey - still going on 😲

Spoke to rules ref today.

He believed it to be no penalty due to the hole score being already decided and a player just playing out that hole - nice and simple.

Did you really tho Phil?🤔

 

[Duckster]

21.1b explains it all though. He did hole out. Granted he did not do it under the rules of golf but he did hole out and the rule therefore states that he scores zero points for that hole.

Just because he was aware he would score zero points doesn’t mean he’s then practising between holes.

I think the OP is confusing the “choosing not to do so” part of holing out. That’s someone actively not holding out. So just picking their ball up or simply walking into the next tee. Knowledge that they are in breach of a rule whilst still playing a hole is not practising between hol

 

[Swango1980]

21.1b explains it all though. He did hole out. Granted he did not do it under the rules of golf but he did hole out and the rule therefore states that he scores zero points for that hole.

Just because he was aware he would score zero points doesn’t mean he’s then practising between holes.

I think the OP is confusing the “choosing not to do so” part of holing out. That’s someone actively not holding out. So just picking their ball up or simply walking into the next tee. Knowledge that they are in breach of a rule whilst still playing a hole is not practising between hol

You are ignoring another vital statement from rule 21b.

A hole is completed when the player has holes out, or chooses not to do so..." They chose not to do so when they decided not to go back to the tee. At that point they gave up on that hole.

 

[Duckster]

You are ignoring another vital statement from rule 21b.

A hole is completed when the player has holes out, or chooses not to do so..." They chose not to do so when they decided not to go back to the tee. At that point they gave up on that hole.

So then, whilst you are on about ignoring vital statements. Did he hole out? Yes, he did. Just because he was aware he was in breach of the rules and would score zero points.....

Choosing not to hole out is just picking up your ball and walking off and is only there to negate rule 3.3c about having to hole out at every hole.

 

[Swango1980]

He didn't hole out, he had already chosen not to do so. He had already completed the hole. Otherwise, you could decide to blob hole, then throw a ball down, hit one or two shots, then pick ball up, place it next to hole, then tap it in and then claim you have holed out, so all the nonsense you did just before doesn't matter. To me, that is an absurd situation, especially when the rule you quoted has stated they have already completed the hole before they put it in hole.

 

[clubchamp98]

He didn't hole out, he had already chosen not to do so. He had already completed the hole. Otherwise, you could decide to blob hole, then throw a ball down, hit one or two shots, then pick ball up, place it next to hole, then tap it in and then claim you have holed out, so all the nonsense you did just before doesn't matter. To me, that is an absurd situation, especially when the rule you quoted has stated they have already completed the hole before they put it in hole.

Who said the rules were simplified this year.
I must admit I can see merit in both arguments.
But if I had paid top dollar to play somewhere nice and was told I can’t complete a hole because of a lost ball without a pen on the next hole that’s a bit to drastic imo.

Interested to see what the R&A say.

 

[Duckster]

But he did hole out. Just because you don’t like the way he did it makes it any less true. You are making assumptions that actively breaching the rules of golf and having knowledge of that is choosing to not hole out.

And yes, you can do what you describe which will only result in zero points on that hole.

Magic isn’t it.