Practice during round

[Swango1980]

Who said the rules were simplified this year.
I must admit I can see merit in both arguments.
But if I had paid top dollar to play somewhere nice and was told I can’t complete a hole because of a lost ball without a pen on the next hole that’s a bit to drastic imo.

Interested to see what the R&A say.

If it was a friendly, you could do as you like, assuming your mates were happy. I would be.

If it's a comp, you could just go back to tee and play 3 if you really want to continue. But, if you just dropped one down and played on, hopefully you seem to agree a fellow competitor could argue you were practicing, especially it you happened to drop it a distance that matched the yardage of the next par 3 for example. I'd struggle to see how a player could get away with that. Almost makes the ruling about practicing between two holes completely redundant in Stableford if they could do that.

 

[Swango1980]

But he did hole out. Just because you don’t like the way he did it makes it any less true. You are making assumptions that actively breaching the rules of golf and having knowledge of that is choosing to not hole out.

And yes, you can do what you describe which will only result in zero points on that hole.

Magic isn’t it.

It is magic, how you can interpret a rule as you wish the rule to be, rather than what it actually is. You've not added any new info to your side of the argument.

 

[rulefan]

I thought the player explained what he was doing. "No score"

 

[Backache]

I thought the player explained what he was doing. "No score"

that was the result of what he did the statement was . ''no score just played one down” Which is open to interpretation.
Must admit I can see how a ruling could go either way, interesting to see which way it goes.

 

[Tashyboy]

Thankfully with the new rules, everything is clearer. 🤔😖

 

[Duckster]

It is magic, how you can interpret a rule as you wish the rule to be, rather than what it actually is. You've not added any new info to your side of the argument.

As taken from the other post on the rules forum, here’s the link to the interpretation of what practice between holes is.

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/interpretations/rule-5-interpretations

Take note, it states what the interpretation of holing out is to determine what is classed as between holes.

“Stableford, Par/ Bogey, and Maximum Score - When the player has holed out, or has picked up after scoring zero points, losing the hole or reaching the maximum score.”

Even if you say he didn’t hole out, he didn’t pick up either, he put another ball in play (granted incorrectly and from the wrong place) so yes, he’d get a penalty for that but that penalty would therefore be added to the hole it occurred on.

 

[Swango1980]

As taken from the other post on the rules forum, here’s the link to the interpretation of what practice between holes is.

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/interpretations/rule-5-interpretations

Take note, it states what the interpretation of holing out is to determine what is classed as between holes.

“Stableford, Par/ Bogey, and Maximum Score - When the player has holed out, or has picked up after scoring zero points, losing the hole or reaching the maximum score.”

Even if you say he didn’t hole out, he didn’t pick up either, he put another ball in play (granted incorrectly and from the wrong place) so yes, he’d get a penalty for that but that penalty would therefore be added to the hole it occurred on.

He put another ball in play? I've already read and commented on this. How could he put a ball in play, if he already knew he was out of the hole and already decided not to play on to try and score? He didn't put a ball in play, he never intended to put a ball in play. He gave up, dropped a ball and then made a stroke, knowing it would never be counted. That is not my assumption, the OP stated exactly what he said.

 

[clubchamp98]

If it was a friendly, you could do as you like, assuming your mates were happy. I would be.

If it's a comp, you could just go back to tee and play 3 if you really want to continue. But, if you just dropped one down and played on, hopefully you seem to agree a fellow competitor could argue you were practicing, especially it you happened to drop it a distance that matched the yardage of the next par 3 for example. I'd struggle to see how a player could get away with that. Almost makes the ruling about practicing between two holes completely redundant in Stableford if they could do that.

The lads I have seen do this have mostly just dropped a ball where they lost the original.
Choosing your yardage is different.
This is the first I have heard of this rule (35yrs playing’.)
I must admit the wording in the rules is not easy to understand and exceptions confuse the matter.
So many rules have been quoted , and one players interpretation is different to another.
Honestly I don’t know the answer. But the hole would be over the instant he never went back to the tee.
But to penalise someone on the next hole for just playing the hole out seems harsh.

Will be interesting to see R&As answer.

 

[clubchamp98]

He put another ball in play? I've already read and commented on this. How could he put a ball in play, if he already knew he was out of the hole and already decided not to play on to try and score? He didn't put a ball in play, he never intended to put a ball in play. He gave up, dropped a ball and then made a stroke, knowing it would never be counted. That is not my assumption, the OP stated exactly what he said.

I would say the only way to put another ball in play would be to go back to the tee.

 

[sunshine]

Technically, I understand Swango's position. It's massively pedantic though.

Personally, there is a big difference between roll up v qualifier. Casual game it's fine to drop another one down. In a Q comp it's poor etiquette and not in the spirit of the game.

 

[effayjay]

I am the OP. I applied the penalty in good faith and have read nothing in this thread to convince me that I was wrong in doing so. Once my playing partner gives up on his tee shot and throws another ball down he knows that he will not be scoring on the hole and the only reason for “ playing one down” is practice. There is logically no difference to doing this than to playing two down. They are all practice strokes.

 

[chrisd]

The new rules book says that " to help the pace of play, you are encouraged to stop playing a hole when your score will be zero points"

I posted this earlier from rule21, and stand by it, as it clearly doesn't prohibit playing on when the player is already on zero points for the hole, so, if the player drops from a wrong place and continues to play on he/she would incur further penalties on the hole but given that only a score over zero counts and, in Stableford, you cant score less than zero no matter how many penalties you incur on a hole.

 

[effayjay]

I posted this earlier from rule21, and stand by it, as it clearly doesn't prohibit playing on when the player is already on zero points for the hole, so, if the player drops from a wrong place and continues to play on he/she would incur further penalties on the hole but given that only a score over zero counts and, in Stableford, you cant score less than zero no matter how many penalties you incur on a hole.

That is exactly the reason why the rules state that the penalty is applied to the next hole. No point in applying a penalty that has no effect.

 

[chrisd]

That is exactly the reason why the rules state that the penalty is applied to the next hole. No point in applying a penalty that has no effect.

Can you point me in the direction of that view in the rule book please

 

[rulie]

I am the OP. I applied the penalty in good faith and have read nothing in this thread to convince me that I was wrong in doing so. Once my playing partner gives up on his tee shot and throws another ball down he knows that he will not be scoring on the hole and the only reason for “ playing one down” is practice. There is logically no difference to doing this than to playing two down. They are all practice strokes.

Just a point, you don't "apply" any penalty to the player's score. A marker's role is to write down what he told you and, if you disagree, you bring it to the attention of the Committee when the cards are returned. The Committee will decided whether or not there is a breach of the Rules.

 

[rulefan]

I am the OP. I applied the penalty in good faith and have read nothing in this thread to convince me that I was wrong in doing so. Once my playing partner gives up on his tee shot and throws another ball down he knows that he will not be scoring on the hole and the only reason for “ playing one down” is practice. There is logically no difference to doing this than to playing two down. They are all practice strokes.

Please explain in just what circumstances this applies.

5.5a These are not practice strokes:

• Strokes made by a player in playing out a hole whose result has been decided.

 

[Swango1980]

Please explain in just what circumstances this applies.

5.5a These are not practice strokes:

• Strokes made by a player in playing out a hole whose result has been decided.

This has already been replied to, but you don't acknowledge the answer. The difference in opinion is that you think they are "playing out" the hole despite already accepting a blob and giving up on their original ball. I say that the hole was completed as soon as they made that decision.

As a fan of the rules, I assume, here is a scenario for you. You are playing a competition at my course, and marking the card of a player on a good score. Get to the 15th, a tricky 440 yard par 4 with all sorts of danger off the tee. They make a pigs ear of it off the tee. Can't find their first ball off the tee, nor their provisional. So, they decide enough is enough, not going back to the tee, and walk on. Then, they drop a ball on the fairway, 168 yards from green and "continue" to play the hole. What do you do? I will add, the next hole is a 168 yard par 3 in the same direction. They go on to hit their tee shot on that one pin high, get a good score on that hole and end up winning the Stableford competition by a point.

The following week, you happen to casually mention this to other members of the club who played in that competition, including the person that finished second. All I am asking, how do you think their opinions would be on that situation? If you are saying the rules allow it, then I would seriously recommend the R&A need to review this. However, as you know, I believe the rules already do not allow this situation to happen.

 

[robinthehood]

Take 2 players A and B
A hits a tee shot down the left, cant find it, cant be bothered to walk back and just chucks a ball down and carries in the knowledge he has blobbed.
B hits a tee shot down the left, cant find it, drops another ball roughly where he thinks his tee shot should have been, thinking this is the correct thing to do.

you want me to believe A gets a 2 shot pen on the next hole but B doesn't?

Thats what I find hard to get, I suppose if A specifically says he was having a practice he could be in trouble, but even then I am am doubtful as I often carry on playing and tbf its practice.

 

[chrisd]

This has already been replied to, but you don't acknowledge the answer. The difference in opinion is that you think they are "playing out" the hole despite already accepting a blob and giving up on their original ball. I say that the hole was completed as soon as they made that decision.

As a fan of the rules, I assume, here is a scenario for you. You are playing a competition at my course, and marking the card of a player on a good score. Get to the 15th, a tricky 440 yard par 4 with all sorts of danger off the tee. They make a pigs ear of it off the tee. Can't find their first ball off the tee, nor their provisional. So, they decide enough is enough, not going back to the tee, and walk on. Then, they drop a ball on the fairway, 168 yards from green and "continue" to play the hole. What do you do? I will add, the next hole is a 168 yard par 3 in the same direction. They go on to hit their tee shot on that one pin high, get a good score on that hole and end up winning the Stableford competition by a point.

The following week, you happen to casually mention this to other members of the club who played in that competition, including the person that finished second. All I am asking, how do you think their opinions would be on that situation? If you are saying the rules allow it, then I would seriously recommend the R&A need to review this. However, as you know, I believe the rules already do not allow this situation to happen.

It doesnt matter how many times you ask the question the answer is the same, rule 5.5a and added added information from rule 21 clearly allows a player to play on when he cannot score on the hole. I'd have no issue with the scenario you put forward simply because the player hasn't breached any rules.

I played in the forum meet at Sunningdale recently, quite the best inland course in the country, I blobbed a couple of holes and played on with a thrown down ball as I wasnt going to waste my couple of hundred quid by missing out holes that I wouldn't have scored on.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

This has already been replied to, but you don't acknowledge the answer. The difference in opinion is that you think they are "playing out" the hole despite already accepting a blob and giving up on their original ball. I say that the hole was completed as soon as they made that decision.

As a fan of the rules, I assume, here is a scenario for you. You are playing a competition at my course, and marking the card of a player on a good score. Get to the 15th, a tricky 440 yard par 4 with all sorts of danger off the tee. They make a pigs ear of it off the tee. Can't find their first ball off the tee, nor their provisional. So, they decide enough is enough, not going back to the tee, and walk on. Then, they drop a ball on the fairway, 168 yards from green and "continue" to play the hole. What do you do? I will add, the next hole is a 168 yard par 3 in the same direction. They go on to hit their tee shot on that one pin high, get a good score on that hole and end up winning the Stableford competition by a point.

The following week, you happen to casually mention this to other members of the club who played in that competition, including the person that finished second. All I am asking, how do you think their opinions would be on that situation? If you are saying the rules allow it, then I would seriously recommend the R&A need to review this. However, as you know, I believe the rules already do not allow this situation to happen.

You are trying to read another players mind though, if it had been a Stroke Comp and he NR’d the hole all the added penalties in the world are irrelevant as he is out of the comp for incorrectly dropping and playing on with a 2nd ball.
Your saying the only reason a player would do it in a Stableford Comp is for dishonest reasons.
They may actually know the rules and when dropping a ball on the fairway they are happy to take the penalty for that shot as they also know it will make no difference to the card.
Surely the only way you could be sure is if you ask the player his intentions when they drop a ball and play the hole out.