Practice during round

[Grant85]

I have seen the following at the Masters - was probably about 8 years ago.

Tom Watson waiting on a tee having pulled a few short putts earlier in the round. He was hitting his ball on the teeing area with his putter while waiting for the group ahead of him to play their second shots. i.e. specifically not putting on a green and specifically not during the playing of a hole.

The commentator - Ewen Murray - was in no doubt that this was perfectly legal.

 

[Swango1980]

Incredible attitude by people in here, but whatever. It is what it is. Keyboard warriors just like any other forum. Personally, I've had a horrific week family wise, and so coming back I basically have no patience for those types of people anymore. Life is to short. The reason this thread is SO long, is because of your contributions. For example, you could have just accepted my comment where I've given you the proper official response, so it is clear to all. But no, within minutes of posing that, you flood the thread with pointless comments. Well done.

What has annoyed me is that, given your attitude, at times I may have been "short" with people on here that are genuinely trying to get to the bottom of it. However, a long long time ago i sent a private message to rulefan and DID apologise to him if he felt I wasn't respecting his angle. Since then, we have both independently asked other sources and finally have come to a common ground I feel. So, given that we BOTH had to do that, it just highlights that the rules were just not clear. It was only ever clear if you read one line, and ignored any contradictory lines within other sections of the rules.

The only ones who should be embarrassed are those who felt it should be clear all along. I mean, how many of you said that, in my scenario to the R&A it was OBVIOUS the player should be punished because he said it was a practice stroke. However, the R&A have just come back and changed their tune, to say No Penalty. That alone kills your argument.

Anyway, they are happy to pass my feedback to the Committee for future review, and they are also aware of differing views online (i.e. I assume they mean this thread).

I'm happy to get to the bottom of it. I'm happy they are aware of it. I'm happy that this thread has enabled me to determine how much respect I should attach to certain users opinions in other threads. So, it has probably been the most useful thread I've ever contributed with. Thanks to the OP for raising is, thanks to those who have genuinely contributed throughout. I don't think I need to comment further, I'm happy that it is CASE CLOSED.

 

[Swango1980]

I have seen the following at the Masters - was probably about 8 years ago.

Tom Watson waiting on a tee having pulled a few short putts earlier in the round. He was hitting his ball on the teeing area with his putter while waiting for the group ahead of him to play their second shots. i.e. specifically not putting on a green and specifically not during the playing of a hole.

The commentator - Ewen Murray - was in no doubt that this was perfectly legal.

Grant, that is specifically allowed in the rules. There has never been a debate about that scenario

 

[rulefan]

Following my last correspondence with the R&A, I asked for further clarification.
Next comment is the correspondence

I am please that you have posted the R&A's response.

I received a similar note some days ago but was waiting to see what you did. So, just to complete the picture.

Hi *****
Thanks again for your email and for raising this with us. We have been discussing this for a while and the consensus is that the last bullet of 5.5a applies.
I appreciate that 5.5b/1 could be misleading to some but that Interpretation is explaining when practice between holes is permitted (i.e. chipping and putting is permitted). It is not determining whether or not a player is continuing the play of a hole.
There is nothing to say that continuing play of a hole must be done in accordance with the Rules, and very often it is not. This is the quirk of the Stableford format.
We will go back to the person who originally emailed us and clarify the position with him.
Thanks *****

Incidentally, the person who gave your original ruling was new to the department and is no longer in that position - but not as a result of that ruling I hasten to add.

 

[rulefan]

I have seen the following at the Masters - was probably about 8 years ago.

Tom Watson waiting on a tee having pulled a few short putts earlier in the round. He was hitting his ball on the teeing area with his putter while waiting for the group ahead of him to play their second shots. i.e. specifically not putting on a green and specifically not during the playing of a hole.

The commentator - Ewen Murray - was in no doubt that this was perfectly legal.

Between two holes, a player must not make a practice stroke.
Exception – Where Player Allowed to Practise Putting or Chipping: The player may practise putting or chipping on or near:

• The putting green of the hole just completed and any practice green (see Rule 13.1e), and
• The teeing area of the next hole.

 

[patricks148]

Incredible attitude by people in here, but whatever. It is what it is. Keyboard warriors just like any other forum. Personally, I've had a horrific week family wise, and so coming back I basically have no patience for those types of people anymore. Life is to short. The reason this thread is SO long, is because of your contributions. For example, you could have just accepted my comment where I've given you the proper official response, so it is clear to all. But no, within minutes of posing that, you flood the thread with pointless comments. Well done.

What has annoyed me is that, given your attitude, at times I may have been "short" with people on here that are genuinely trying to get to the bottom of it. However, a long long time ago i sent a private message to rulefan and DID apologise to him if he felt I wasn't respecting his angle. Since then, we have both independently asked other sources and finally have come to a common ground I feel. So, given that we BOTH had to do that, it just highlights that the rules were just not clear. It was only ever clear if you read one line, and ignored any contradictory lines within other sections of the rules.

The only ones who should be embarrassed are those who felt it should be clear all along. I mean, how many of you said that, in my scenario to the R&A it was OBVIOUS the player should be punished because he said it was a practice stroke. However, the R&A have just come back and changed their tune, to say No Penalty. That alone kills your argument.

Anyway, they are happy to pass my feedback to the Committee for future review, and they are also aware of differing views online (i.e. I assume they mean this thread).

I'm happy to get to the bottom of it. I'm happy they are aware of it. I'm happy that this thread has enabled me to determine how much respect I should attach to certain users opinions in other threads. So, it has probably been the most useful thread I've ever contributed with. Thanks to the OP for raising is, thanks to those who have genuinely contributed throughout. I don't think I need to comment further, I'm happy that it is CASE CLOSED.

i bet you are

 

[robinthehood]

Incredible attitude by people in here, but whatever. It is what it is. Keyboard warriors just like any other forum. Personally, I've had a horrific week family wise, and so coming back I basically have no patience for those types of people anymore. Life is to short. The reason this thread is SO long, is because of your contributions. For example, you could have just accepted my comment where I've given you the proper official response, so it is clear to all. But no, within minutes of posing that, you flood the thread with pointless comments. Well done.

What has annoyed me is that, given your attitude, at times I may have been "short" with people on here that are genuinely trying to get to the bottom of it. However, a long long time ago i sent a private message to rulefan and DID apologise to him if he felt I wasn't respecting his angle. Since then, we have both independently asked other sources and finally have come to a common ground I feel. So, given that we BOTH had to do that, it just highlights that the rules were just not clear. It was only ever clear if you read one line, and ignored any contradictory lines within other sections of the rules.

The only ones who should be embarrassed are those who felt it should be clear all along. I mean, how many of you said that, in my scenario to the R&A it was OBVIOUS the player should be punished because he said it was a practice stroke. However, the R&A have just come back and changed their tune, to say No Penalty. That alone kills your argument.

Anyway, they are happy to pass my feedback to the Committee for future review, and they are also aware of differing views online (i.e. I assume they mean this thread).

I'm happy to get to the bottom of it. I'm happy they are aware of it. I'm happy that this thread has enabled me to determine how much respect I should attach to certain users opinions in other threads. So, it has probably been the most useful thread I've ever contributed with. Thanks to the OP for raising is, thanks to those who have genuinely contributed throughout. I don't think I need to comment further, I'm happy that it is CASE CLOSED.

Oof another overly wordy riposte from you , when all was required was to admit you were wrong and apologise.
Both to us and the chaps you incorrectly penalised in your vain attempts to be right.

 

[TheJezster]

Thanks for sharing the responses guys, I'm glad that's been cleared up. I'll stay away from the 'idiots' comment, I have a feeling it may be being regretted already.

Good debate is what makes this forum.

 

[rulefan]

So, given that we BOTH had to do that, it just highlights that the rules were just not clear.

To be frank I was only prompted to contact the R&A again after you continued to disagree with the ruling I had reported. I was never in doubt as to the correct ruling. When I put your scenario to the R&A, their immediate reaction was the same (5.5a) but they asked me not to pass it on until the reason for the wrong (now corrected) ruling being given at the time had been determined.

However, the R&A have just come back and changed their tune, to say No Penalty.

I'm afraid you misrepresent the situation. They haven't changed their tune. One member of staff got it wrong. The Rule and it's interpretation has not changed. However, they have recognised that some people may get it wrong.

Anyway, they are happy to pass my feedback to the Committee for future review, and they are also aware of differing views online (i.e. I assume they mean this thread).

I would assume so also, as I have never seen an issue on this point in any of the many other forums I use.

 

[bladeplayer]

You have to understand that pretty well everyone said that you were wrong, some put it less succinctly than others, but, in being found to be correct they are definitely NOT idiots. However, despite many many posts where you contradicted everyone, I think most posters will concur that the idiot, if there is one, is you!

Succinctly by jove ??

. Nice one Christopher old bean

 

[rulefan]

This issue has surfaced again in another thread. So just to make it clear.

5a is about an activity taking place whilst a hole is being played. Bullet 3 applies
5b is about an activity taking place between the play of two holes.

They are entirely separate rules.