potential problem with the new 'flag in' rule !

[clubchamp98]

So we all want to know the COR of the flags at our course.
I do think it will help poor putters who hit it 9’/10’ past the flag but good putters will mostly have good speed.
As in the video it’s the last 5’ that is the most important.
It’s a personal choice and nobody’s right or wrong .
If it works for you great if not just have it out.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I played at a different course today, Close House, with my son and we decided at the beginning to leave the flag in on all of the holes, partly out of interest, partly for the hell of it. The pins were quite thin and the ball always dropped to the bottom of the cup. Conscious of another thread on here I was going to remove the flag when picking the ball out but the pins were so thin that it was unnecessary. We never raced a ball and whacked the pin but I don't think that would have been an issue with those pins.

This was different to my own course where the pins are thicker and the ball gets trapped on occasions.

Based on the example of these 2 experiences, entirely unscientific, it would seem that thinner pins are better suited for this new rule. Does this fit with how others are finding this?

 

[jim8flog]

I played at a different course today, Close House, with my son and we decided at the beginning to leave the flag in on all of the holes, partly out of interest, partly for the hell of it. The pins were quite thin and the ball always dropped to the bottom of the cup. Conscious of another thread on here I was going to remove the flag when picking the ball out but the pins were so thin that it was unnecessary. We never raced a ball and whacked the pin but I don't think that would have been an issue with those pins.

This was different to my own course where the pins are thicker and the ball gets trapped on occasions.

Based on the example of these 2 experiences, entirely unscientific, it would seem that thinner pins are better suited for this new rule. Does this fit with how others are finding this?

As previously said the new flagsticks on our course can be a deciding factor because of the thickness of the pole.

If we were still using our old flagsticks I would probably putt with the flag in more often.

 

[Slab]

I'll see a guy tomorrow that organises an ET event
I'll ask him if he changes flagsticks or just uses the regular tapered ones we putt to every week

 

[Orikoru]

I played at a different course today, Close House, with my son and we decided at the beginning to leave the flag in on all of the holes, partly out of interest, partly for the hell of it. The pins were quite thin and the ball always dropped to the bottom of the cup. Conscious of another thread on here I was going to remove the flag when picking the ball out but the pins were so thin that it was unnecessary. We never raced a ball and whacked the pin but I don't think that would have been an issue with those pins.

This was different to my own course where the pins are thicker and the ball gets trapped on occasions.

Based on the example of these 2 experiences, entirely unscientific, it would seem that thinner pins are better suited for this new rule. Does this fit with how others are finding this?

100%, the thinner the flagstick the better. If I was playing a course that had thicker flagsticks I'd go back to removing them.

 

[Rlburnside]

I had a 12 foot putt the other day and the flag was leaning slightly towards me, the putt ended up resting against the flag with none of the ball below the hole so had to take the flag out and ball dropped so had to replace and take another shot.

I’ve had similar happen before but that time the ball dropped after around 5 seconds , going to take more care in future to either take the flag out or center it.

 

[duncan mackie]

I had a 12 foot putt the other day and the flag was leaning slightly towards me, the putt ended up resting against the flag with none of the ball below the hole so had to take the flag out and ball dropped so had to replace and take another shot.

I’ve had similar happen before but that time the ball dropped after around 5 seconds , going to take more care in future to either take the flag out or center it.

I struggle with this - tried to set up no end of situations practically, as well as doing the theory to death, and I cannot see how any stationary ball that doesn't have some part of it below the surface can fall when the flag is removed ie it shouldn't start moving if more than half the ball is not over the edge of the hole - and if more than half is over the edge then it doesn't matter what angle the flagstick is at as some part of the ball must be below the level.

Appreciate that the shouldn't above has a couple of riders - the first is a poorly defined edge to the hole (in which case part of the ball is even more likely to be below the level already) or longer grass (especially at this time of year) that gradually collapses under the weight of the ball at the edge and it simply rolls downhill towards and into the hole. There shouldnt be a situation where a ball will naturally start rolling downhill into a hole from stationary (holes in the wrong place on the green if this is the case!)

In theory the rule makers were trying to make it easier, and quicker (because you can just pick it up rather than requiring fit to get to the bottom) without actually changing what would, or wouldn't, be holed.

 

[Orikoru]

I struggle with this - tried to set up no end of situations practically, as well as doing the theory to death, and I cannot see how any stationary ball that doesn't have some part of it below the surface can fall when the flag is removed ie it shouldn't start moving if more than half the ball is not over the edge of the hole - and if more than half is over the edge then it doesn't matter what angle the flagstick is at as some part of the ball must be below the level.

Appreciate that the shouldn't above has a couple of riders - the first is a poorly defined edge to the hole (in which case part of the ball is even more likely to be below the level already) or longer grass (especially at this time of year) that gradually collapses under the weight of the ball at the edge and it simply rolls downhill towards and into the hole. There shouldnt be a situation where a ball will naturally start rolling downhill into a hole from stationary (holes in the wrong place on the green if this is the case!)

In theory the rule makers were trying to make it easier, and quicker (because you can just pick it up rather than requiring fit to get to the bottom) without actually changing what would, or wouldn't, be holed.

I agree (I think)... It should be physically impossible for the ball to be leaning against the flagstick and not have any part of the ball below the hole. Unless the flagstick is of enormous thickness. Even if it's just a millimetre.

 

[Jacko_G]

Pin in = fantastic new rule.

Its a Carlsberg rule.

 

[Rlburnside]

I struggle with this - tried to set up no end of situations practically, as well as doing the theory to death, and I cannot see how any stationary ball that doesn't have some part of it below the surface can fall when the flag is removed ie it shouldn't start moving if more than half the ball is not over the edge of the hole - and if more than half is over the edge then it doesn't matter what angle the flagstick is at as some part of the ball must be below the level.

Appreciate that the shouldn't above has a couple of riders - the first is a poorly defined edge to the hole (in which case part of the ball is even more likely to be below the level already) or longer grass (especially at this time of year) that gradually collapses under the weight of the ball at the edge and it simply rolls downhill towards and into the hole. There shouldnt be a situation where a ball will naturally start rolling downhill into a hole from stationary (holes in the wrong place on the green if this is the case!)

In theory the rule makers were trying to make it easier, and quicker (because you can just pick it up rather than requiring fit to get to the bottom) without actually changing what would, or wouldn't, be holed.

Well I can only go by my experience both myself and my pp both had a good look at the ball and no part of the ball was below the hole.

I carefully pulled the flagstick out of the hole and the ball dropped, maybe the hole had a small depression where my ball was but I never noticed anything.

 

[duncan mackie]

I agree (I think)... It should be physically impossible for the ball to be leaning against the flagstick and not have any part of the ball below the hole. Unless the flagstick is of enormous thickness. Even if it's just a millimetre.

That is definitely not what I'm saying.
I may have worded it loosely, I'm saying that it shouldn't be possible for a ball leaning against the flagstick (regardless of thickness or lean), that would fall in when the flagstick was carefully removed, not to have had part of it (that millimetre) below the level of the green.
It's definitely possible for a ball to be up against a leaning flagstick to not be in that situation - as you say the thickness of the flagstick will impact on this situation.

 

[garyinderry]

I agree (I think)... It should be physically impossible for the ball to be leaning against the flagstick and not have any part of the ball below the hole. Unless the flagstick is of enormous thickness. Even if it's just a millimetre.

I have observed one situation so far where I could see that the ball could be touching the flag while not having any of the ball below the hole. it was on an extremely windy day. The flag was blowing hard and bending directly up a large slope.

 

[Rlburnside]

I agree (I think)... It should be physically impossible for the ball to be leaning against the flagstick and not have any part of the ball below the hole. Unless the flagstick is of enormous thickness. Even if it's just a millimetre.

If the flagstick is vertical your correct but what you maybe misunderstood is that in my situation the flagstick was leaning towards me and it’s certainly possible for this to happen.

 

[Jacko_G]

You can recentre the flag stick.

 

[clubchamp98]

This would be fun in a match play situation.
Two grown men on their knees to see if the ball is millimetres below the surface.
I can live with the flag in rule but this “if it’s a millimetre below the level” it’s holed is silly imo.
There was no need to change this rule and with flag in or out your ball should have to go below the level of the green to be deemed holed.

 

[duncan mackie]

This would be fun in a match play situation.
Two grown men on their knees to see if the ball is millimetres below the surface.
I can live with the flag in rule but this “if it’s a millimetre below the level” it’s holed is silly imo.
There was no need to change this rule and with flag in or out your ball should have to go below the level of the green to be deemed holed.

I have huge sympathy with that view; but can also see why they have done this (with this OTT approach to saving time everywhere).
My preference would be for a simply addition to the written definition that added "any doubt as to whether part of the ball is below the surface may be resolved by carefully centering the flagstick".
Gives the best of both worlds with balls that are obviously holed, but easily removed, being available quickly and any doubt easily resolved on the course.

 

[robinthehood]

Played today in a comp. Flag in for long putts and out for shorter. I'd happily have it in all the time and a pp raced 2 putts over the hole that probably would have dropped if he'd kept the flag in. Also anyone who now asks to have the have the flag tended is just being awkward, flag in or out no reason to do anything else.

 

[Wolf]

Played in comp today and the wind was blowing hard, literally had no effect on flag lean though so for me was happy for it to be in on every putt, but if a PP went first and had the flag out it stayed out saves faffing about.

Did see the group behind us though still tending the pin a lot and they ended up a good 2 holes behind us though by the end of the round, I'm not saying that was all down to tending the flag as surely there are other contributing factors but it certainly wouldn't have help their pace as could see on 1 hole all 3 of them tended the flag whilst one of the others putted.

 

[Jacko_G]

Played today in a comp. Flag in for long putts and out for shorter. I'd happily have it in all the time and a pp raced 2 putts over the hole that probably would have dropped if he'd kept the flag in. Also anyone who now asks to have the have the flag tended is just being awkward, flag in or out no reason to do anything else.

Shhhhhhh


You'll upset certain people with that common sense approach!

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Lots of made up stuff on this thread to suit whichever side of the argument you support.