POLL: How do you feel about WHS?

[clubchamp98]

You have absolutely no control over the outcome so why worry about it? Surely you have to be happy at the score not the outcome of an meaningless competition?

If 28 handicap shoots the same net score you’re up in arms, but it’s ok off 6? What if they have put the maximum effort they can into getting that handicap?

Would you be upset I beat you net playing off 3? Because I don’t put the effort you do into the game.

What about if someone off 7 should 68 gross and beat you by 1?

If I shot gross 68 and lost by 3 net shots to someone with double my handicap. Am I entitled to be upset?

Your arguments just don’t work.

Maybe it’s a generational thing. Because every low handicapper I know is only really interested in their gross scores and a few select comps. They aren’t interested in what goes on in the Stablefords.

I’m not upset by anything golf related.
Your making some very big claims here about someone you havnt even met.

I’m just making my opinion .

If a 28 handicap wins that’s fine.
As long as he shouldn’t be a 22 handicap that’s my main complaint not genuine handicappers.
Sadly that’s happening at my place.

 

[wjemather]

I’m not upset by anything golf related.
Your making some very big claims here about someone you havnt even met.

I’m just making my opinion .

If a 28 handicap wins that’s fine.
As long as he shouldn’t be a 22 handicap that’s my main complaint not genuine handicappers.
Sadly that’s happening at my place.

If the 28 handicappers at Grange Park should genuinely be 22 handicappers - what are your handicap committee doing?

Or are you just assuming that their handicaps are wrong because you don't like seeing one of them score well occasionally? If so, how low does a handicap have to be for a good score to be acceptable to you?

 

[rulefan]

As long as he shouldn’t be a 22 handicap that’s my main complaint not genuine handicappers.
Sadly that’s happening at my place.

Why is it happening? Week h'cap c'ee? Too many unchecked GP cards? or ?

 

[clubchamp98]

Why is it happening? Week h'cap c'ee? Too many unchecked GP cards? or ?

A very poor handicap system that lets people manipulate it through an app.

Also people can manipulate it and not do anything that can be flagged if they’re clever.
They only get caught if they are stupid or someone snitches.
All above board nothing to see here

People are defending the system as they don’t see it.
But others are telling us that it is a real problem.
Heads in the sand , or are the Rand A finally seeing what’s going on ?

 

[clubchamp98]

If the 28 handicappers at Grange Park should genuinely be 22 handicappers - what are your handicap committee doing?

Or are you just assuming that their handicaps are wrong because you don't like seeing one of them score well occasionally? If so, how low does a handicap have to be for a good score to be acceptable to you?

Not all of them.
But there’s always someone’s day in the sun but he’s probably an improving player!
Been happening for years.
But this system facilitates it and like politicians they’re following the rules and not doing anything wrong.

 

[wjemather]

A very poor handicap system that lets people manipulate it through an app.

Also people can manipulate it and not do anything that can be flagged if they’re clever.
They only get caught if they are stupid or someone snitches.
All above board nothing to see here

People are defending the system as they don’t see it.
But others are telling us that it is a real problem.
Heads in the sand , or are the Rand A finally seeing what’s going on ?

Do you have any actual evidence that any of the higher handicappers at your club are manipulating the system? because you are giving the strong impression that these are just frivolous accusations based on not liking a very small number of their scores - the rare good ones.

 

[clubchamp98]

Do you have any actual evidence that any of the higher handicappers at your club are manipulating the system? because you are giving the strong impression that these are just frivolous accusations based on not liking a very small number of their scores - the rare good ones.

I have told you and others before.
Players openly saying they need a few more shots to be competitive then lo and behold !
Your not listening as usual .

 

[jim8flog]

Why are you people not understanding what I'm saying? To the common everyday golfer there was zero relevance in course ratings because we played off the same handicap regardless.

On the other hand to some one like me it is very relevant (as it does to a lot of our senior section*)
Not these days so much.
At one time I played 20 or so rounds a year on other courses including quite a few opens.
I always new which course I was likely to play better than my handicap, about the same or worse having played lots of them quite a few times.

I like the new system as it makes handicaps a touch more relevant to where I am playing

* we have 14 matches a year against other clubs in the seniors plus other regional knockout comps.
We play in a major Dorset league as a club and county champs get moved to a different course every year.

 

[wjemather]

I have told you and others before.
Players openly saying they need a few more shots to be competitive then lo and behold !
Your not listening as usual .

Flippant comments about needing another shot or two are commonplace, but they are not evidence that actual manipulation is happening.

 

[Orikoru]

On the other hand to some one like me it is very relevant (as it does to a lot of our senior section*)
Not these days so much.
At one time I played 20 or so rounds a year on other courses including quite a few opens.
I always new which course I was likely to play better than my handicap, about the same or worse having played lots of them quite a few times.

I like the new system as it makes handicaps a touch more relevant to where I am playing

* we have 14 matches a year against other clubs in the seniors plus other regional knockout comps.
We play in a major Dorset league as a club and county champs get moved to a different course every year.

I like the idea of using the course ratings to give us differing numbers of shots at different courses. In theory to give us more shots if the course is harder. But in reality all they did was rate short courses low and long courses high, so it hasn't fulfilled the brief.

 

[clubchamp98]

Flippant comments about needing another shot or two are commonplace, but they are not evidence that actual manipulation is happening.

It is when the player you are playing with the next week has done exactly that.
Get your head out of your rule book and listen to others as your obviously not listening to me .

 

[IanM]

It is when the player you are playing with the next week has done exactly that.
Get your head out of your rule book and listen to others as your obviously not listening to me .

I think I've heard those comments from folk who "were just making a throw away comment" and from one in particular who ensured he "went out and got them... "

So, you're both correct!

 

[clubchamp98]

I think I've heard those comments from folk who "were just making a throw away comment" and from one in particular who ensured he "went out and got them... "

So, you're both correct!

That’s a first for me anyway

It’s the second guy who’s the problem!
But it’s all within the rules that’s the problem.
If done correctly impossible to police.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

That’s a first for me anyway

It’s the second guy who’s the problem!
But it’s all within the rules that’s the problem.
If done correctly impossible to police.

To blame this on WHS, I think is a bit unfair though, It just so happened that the ease of GP cards come in around the same time and gets associated with WHS, most of the moans of WHS is about the 'Cheats Charter', the perceived ease at which bandits can deliberately raise their handicap to win tournaments and prizes. To me this is not a WHS problem

 

[clubchamp98]

To blame this on WHS, I think is a bit unfair though, It just so happened that the ease of GP cards come in around the same time and gets associated with WHS, most of the moans of WHS is about the 'Cheats Charter', the perceived ease at which bandits can deliberately raise their handicap to win tournaments and prizes. To me this is not a WHS problem

I disagree
The GP cards going into your 8 best cards can put your cap up or put it down rapidly.
It’s the ease of how it can be done.

GP cards are determining your competition handicap .
So they win a comp get cut , but a couple of GP cards their back to where they were.

 

[IanM]

To blame this on WHS, I think is a bit unfair though, It just so happened that the ease of GP cards come in around the same time and gets associated with WHS, most of the moans of WHS is about the 'Cheats Charter', the perceived ease at which bandits can deliberately raise their handicap to win tournaments and prizes. To me this is not a WHS problem

Yep, but it is use of common language. "The app" was part of the deal.. so for most folk, it all gets lumped together.

It is probably better to separate the two in discussions looking for how to improve things, but most, inc me, probably don't in general conversation.

So

1) I think WHS in essence is fine, once folk are clear that it is, and behaves differently to its predecessor!

2) I think being able to key a fake card from the comfort of my armchair and expecting a volunteer committee to police it, was a dangerous move!

I disagree
The GP cards going into your 20 best cards can put your cap up or put it down rapidly.
It’s the ease of how it can be done.

GP cards are determining your competition handicap .
So they win a comp get cut , but a couple of GP cards their back to where they were.

I see that too.... I am old school. Comps were comps and it was only those cards that counted. Socs and Social stuff was just that. BUT there was an informal (or otherwise) understanding that if you had a very good day, the card went in to get you a cut. How that perception has changed.

Sadly, these were done with the best of intentions and we're seeing some folk twisting that to their advantage. Maybe the value of Open Prizes needs cutting! Disincentivise the cheating!

 

[clubchamp98]

Yep, but it is use of common language. "The app" was part of the deal.. so for most folk, it all gets lumped together.

It is probably better to separate the two in discussions looking for how to improve things, but most, inc me, probably don't in general conversation.

So

1) I think WHS in essence is fine, once folk are clear that it is, and behaves differently to its predecessor!

2) I think being able to key a fake card from the comfort of my armchair and expecting a volunteer committee to police it, was a dangerous move!



I see that too.... I am old school. Comps were comps and it was only those cards that counted. Socs and Social stuff was just that. BUT there was an informal (or otherwise) understanding that if you had a very good day, the card went in to get you a cut. How that perception has changed.

Sadly, these were done with the best of intentions and we're seeing some folk twisting that to their advantage. Maybe the value of Open Prizes needs cutting! Disincentivise the cheating!

Money and big prizes encourage cheating imo.
We have heard here how people will falsify handicaps to win a Mickey Mouse roll up.
So some expensive prize table is just a red rag.

 

[rulefan]

But in reality all they did was rate short courses low and long courses high

As an ex-rater, it was ever thus. The rating criteria was fundamentally the same.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
People were using phrases like "universally detested", which seemed speculative and made up and, as it turns out was not accurate.

I'm not female.

 

[BunkerPlayer]

Felt my first bit of negativity today when looking at the fact 3 of my 8 all fall off in a row. I have been playing some of my best and worst golf recently (worst with a card in my hand) and feel like all my progress to get down lower could be taken away soon...

I will probably struggle for qualifiers through the winter though so hopefully can work on some things over the winter and hit the ground running but its mad to think a bad round a few weeks ago wasn't any pressure but now it feels like a couple of bad ones and I could shoot up a full shot or two in a short space of time.