POLL: How do you feel about WHS?

[Mel Smooth]

Don’t really care. There is no way to have a system that suits everyone, and we all have a choice over which comps we choose to play in, and where.

 

[rulefan]

But surely it was in readiness for WHS since we never used them for anything before. If we were still on the old handicap system, it wouldn't matter a toss what the course and slope ratings were.

Under the old handicap system (ie UHS) what was called SSS was in fact CR (rounded). The new part was Slope. The appropriate SSS was used at all courses.

 

[Orikoru]

Under the old handicap system (ie UHS) what was called SSS was in fact CR (rounded). The new part was Slope. The appropriate SSS was used at all courses.

Why are you people not understanding what I'm saying? To the common everyday golfer there was zero relevance in course ratings because we played off the same handicap regardless.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

I know some people think that WHS is good because it reflects current form. I would suggest a handicap system should reflect potential but I'll leave that for now.

How does it reflect current form when there is no time constraint over the timing of your past 20 rounds? Some people I know have 20 rounds in 2 months, others in 3 years or more.

 

[IanM]

Don’t really care. There is no way to have a system that suits everyone, and we all have a choice over which comps we choose to play in, and where.

10 day ban for being rational !

Most of the folk I play with just get on with it. They never put in GP cards anyway as there's at least two qualifiers a week at the Club.

Not frequenting message boards like this also means they don't hear the chatter!

 

[Golfloveruk]

I know some people think that WHS is good because it reflects current form. I would suggest a handicap system should reflect potential but I'll leave that for now.

How does it reflect current form when there is no time constraint over the timing of your past 20 rounds? Some people I know have 20 rounds in 2 months, others in 3 years or more.

How does any system accuracy reflect potential?

How do you define potential?

How would you account for the almost infinite possible ways a person can put together a handicap?

How long should counting scores last?

How many scores should count?

How do you account for the difference in how seriously people take their golf? For example your buddy @clubchamp98 takes it very seriously, he’s invested in coaching and equipment to maximise his potential. I presume he takes an active interest in S&C, mobility and nutrition. Probably gets to the club early when competing for the weekly stableford to go through his stretching routine and a proper warm up.

Whereas. I could be someone who rocks up on the first tee with a minute to spare, with a warm up that consists of a practice swing and a coffee. But still shoots lower scores with a set of second hand clubs cobbled together off eBay. I could also be that person but I shoot higher scores.

How would you account for the improving player?

 

[Deleted member 36483]

10 day ban for being rational !

Most of the folk I play with just get on with it. They never put in GP cards anyway as there's at least two qualifiers a week at the Club.

Not frequenting message boards like this also means they don't hear the chatter!

And it's nice when you only have yourself to worry about. Someone I know well was telling me how Golf Ireland are trying to stay one step ahead of WHS handicap manipulators who are ruining our inter club competitions. Always was a slight problem but now on another level since WHS.

 

[doublebogey7]

Why are you people not understanding what I'm saying? To the common everyday golfer there was zero relevance in course ratings because we played off the same handicap regardless.

Because this is what you said "If we were still on the old handicap system, it wouldn't matter a toss what the course and slope ratings were" and that is a patently not true. Now you've clarified what you meant I think you'll find we understand it, but that does not make the above any truer.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

How does any system accuracy reflect potential?

How do you define potential?

How would you account for the almost infinite possible ways a person can put to a handicap?

How long should counting scores last?

How many scores should count?

How do you account for the difference in how seriously people take their golf? For example your buddy @clubchamp98 takes it very seriously, he’s invested in coaching and equipment to maximise his potential. I presume he takes an active interest in S&C, mobility and nutrition. Probably gets to the club early when competing for the weekly stableford to go through his stretching routine and a proper warm up.

Whereas. I could be someone who rocks up on the first tee with a minute to spare, with a warm up that consists of a practice swing and a coffee. But still shoots lower scores with a set of second hand clubs cobbled together off eBay. I could also be that person but I shoot higher scores.

How would you account for the improving player?

I think I said I'd leave that subject for now. But I will answer.

For now I'm interested in what you think of current form over 2 months versus over 3 years? That's acceptable under WHS, isn't it?

 

[Golfloveruk]

I think I said I'd leave that subject for now. But I will answer.

For now I'm interested in what you think of current form over 2 months versus over 3 years? That's acceptable under WHS, isn't it?

I don’t care!!

Looking forward to your answer

 

[Orikoru]

Because this is what you said "If we were still on the old handicap system, it wouldn't matter a toss what the course and slope ratings were" and that is a patently not true. Now you've clarified what you meant I think you'll find we understand it, but that does not make the above any truer.

Of course it's true?? The course ratings never affected me at all until WHS. Didn't even know what they were.

 

[IanM]

And it's nice when you only have yourself to worry about. Someone I know well was telling me how Golf Ireland are trying to stay one step ahead of WHS handicap manipulators who are ruining our inter club competitions. Always was a slight problem but now on another level since WHS.

I agree with all of the above

We're much more selective about the Opens we play in since WHS. Only two criteria apply, are we keen to play the course, and is it cheaper than the normal green fee? Winning is not a consideration, because our handicaps are kosher!

We're seeing some daft handicaps in Seniors Matches raising some eyebrows.

Thankfully, all the proper stuff is off scratch.

 

[clubchamp98]

How does any system accuracy reflect potential?

How do you define potential?

How would you account for the almost infinite possible ways a person can put together a handicap?

How long should counting scores last?

How many scores should count?

How do you account for the difference in how seriously people take their golf? For example your buddy @clubchamp98 takes it very seriously, he’s invested in coaching and equipment to maximise his potential. I presume he takes an active interest in S&C, mobility and nutrition. Probably gets to the club early when competing for the weekly stableford to go through his stretching routine and a proper warm up.

Whereas. I could be someone who rocks up on the first tee with a minute to spare, with a warm up that consists of a practice swing and a coffee. But still shoots lower scores with a set of second hand clubs cobbled together off eBay. I could also be that person but I shoot higher scores.

How would you account for the improving player?

I do all that but will never shoot 48 pts.
The other example can with his dodgy handicap.
That’s the difference imo.

 

[doublebogey7]

Of course it's true?? The course ratings never affected me at all until WHS. Didn't even know what they were.

They did effect you, as they were used in initial handicaps and for calculating any reductions/increases. You being unaware does not mean they were of no relevance.

 

[Golfloveruk]

I do all that but will never shoot 48 pts.
The other example can with his dodgy handicap.
That’s the difference imo.

I’m talking about shooting lower gross scores like good players do. Not stableford points or net scores.

 

[Orikoru]

They did effect you, as they were used in initial handicaps and for calculating any reductions/increases. You being unaware does not mean they were of no relevance.

Well it's me not understanding you then in that case perhaps. As far as I was concerned, I knew my handicap and played off it, and if I got 37 points or more I get cut. That was how it always worked.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

I agree with all of the above

We're much more selective about the Opens we play in since WHS. Only two criteria apply, are we keen to play the course, and is it cheaper than the normal green fee? Winning is not a consideration, because our handicaps are kosher!

We're seeing some daft handicaps in Seniors Matches raising some eyebrows.

Thankfully, all the proper stuff is off scratch.

Here in Ireland there is a lot of proper stuff off scratch but with handicap brackets. For example the level below the top tier, senior cup, needs you to be no lower than 2.5 in the previous year. Of course it's very easy to slip lower than 2.5 if you are a 3 handicapper but then your year of competitive interclub golf is gone with nothing to play in. 3 handicappers can't win handicap competitions so why would they endanger their only opportunity to compete?

 

[clubchamp98]

Here in Ireland there is a lot of proper stuff off scratch but with handicap brackets. For example the level below the top tier, senior cup, needs you to be no lower than 2.5 in the previous year. Of course it's very easy to slip lower than 2.5 if you are a 3 handicapper but then your year of competitive interclub golf is gone with nothing to play in. 3 handicappers can't win handicap competitions so why would they endanger their only opportunity to compete?

Jeez that’s a strict rule.
Stupid rules like that would lead to protecting your handicap which is a form of manipulation.
But I can see why they would do it!

 

[clubchamp98]

I’m talking about shooting lower gross scores like good players do. Not stableford points or net scores.

You mentioned the weekly Stableford.
But didn’t mention gross scores.

We have a lowest gross once a month . Usually won by a +3 golfer got no chance against him.
Most comps at golf clubs are Stableford or medal with WHS handicaps got no chance in them either.

 

[Golfloveruk]

They go hand in hand.

I shot 68 gross -4 couple of months ago off 6 and didn’t win in fact I was third.

You have absolutely no control over the outcome so why worry about it? Surely you have to be happy at the score not the outcome of an meaningless competition?

If 28 handicap shoots the same net score you’re up in arms, but it’s ok off 6? What if they have put the maximum effort they can into getting that handicap?

Would you be upset I beat you net playing off 3? Because I don’t put the effort you do into the game.

What about if someone off 7 should 68 gross and beat you by 1?

If I shot gross 68 and lost by 3 net shots to someone with double my handicap. Am I entitled to be upset?

Your arguments just don’t work.

Maybe it’s a generational thing. Because every low handicapper I know is only really interested in their gross scores and a few select comps. They aren’t interested in what goes on in the Stablefords.