Plastic Hole-Stabilising Rings

[Backsticks]

This is the condition: ......... unless the nature of the soil requires that it be closer to the surface.

I think we had the same conclusion before.
So effectively, if the rings are used, its because the expert opinion of the greenkeepers is that the soil condition needs them. Hence they are legal.
So a reverse catch 22 : its non conforming to use them, but if they are used, they are conforming.

 

[D-S]

I think we had the same conclusion before.
So effectively, if the rings are used, its because the expert opinion of the greenkeepers is that the soil condition needs them. Hence they are legal.
So a reverse catch 22 : its non conforming to use them, but if they are used, they are conforming.

I think people are confusing liners and stabilising rings, the former are acceptable even, if due to soil conditions they are less than 1 inch below the surface - the latter are not.

 

[rulefan]

I think people are confusing liners and stabilising rings, the former are acceptable even, if due to soil conditions they are less than 1 inch below the surface - the latter are not.

And if the lining is up to the green surface the hole must still be at least 4" deep

 

[BTatHome]

...and what happens when they are not installed correctly? (which by the way I've never seen a one of those rings installed 1" below the surface!!)

If the green keeper installs them to high? You complain and the course management simply don't do anything and say its the conditions of the course ... so you suck it up



Cant actually see the point in installing them 1" below the surface, as that surely defeats the object of having them in the first place.

 

[backwoodsman]

...and what happens when they are not installed correctly? (which by the way I've never seen a one of those rings installed 1" below the surface!!)

If the green keeper installs them to high? You complain and the course management simply don't do anything and say its the conditions of the course ... so you suck it up



Cant actually see the point in installing them 1" below the surface, as that surely defeats the object of having them in the first place.

Not sure if your post is about the hole liner? Or the ring?

 

[BTatHome]

The ring.

Hole liners are generally always below the surface, but the only time I've seen a ring it has always been much closer to the surface

 

[rulie]

As others have said, use of these plastic rings (inserted above the hole liner, with the top of the ring level with the green's surface) makes the hole non-conforming, as the hole is then less than the required diameter.
If soil is an issue, there are other ways to help hold the soil in place - paint or hair spray will work.

 

[Slab]

Might be an idea for someone to post pics of both items to remove any confusion pls

 

[backwoodsman]

...and what happens when they are not installed correctly? (which by the way I've never seen a one of those rings installed 1" below the surface!!)

If the green keeper installs them to high? You complain and the course management simply don't do anything and say its the conditions of the course ... so you suck it up



Cant actually see the point in installing them 1" below the surface, as that surely defeats the object of having them in the first place.

In light of your reply, then no, there is no point to installing them more than 1" below the surface. Their very purpose is to fill and 'stabilise' the 1" gap between the top of the hole liner and the surface. If the Greenies are installing them otherwise, it smacks of incompetence. And as Rulie says, there are other ways to do it (if needed) which would conform to the rules.

 

[Neilds]

Might be an idea for someone to post pics of both items to remove any confusion pls

Agree, I’m sure we have at least 2 separate discussions going on here

 

[rosecott]

Might be an idea for someone to post pics of both items to remove any confusion pls

 

[jim8flog]

...and what happens when they are not installed correctly? (which by the way I've never seen a one of those rings installed 1" below the surface!!)

If the green keeper installs them to high? You complain and the course management simply don't do anything and say its the conditions of the course ... so you suck it up



Cant actually see the point in installing them 1" below the surface, as that surely defeats the object of having them in the first place.

If a hole does not substantially conform to the dimensions required you are allowed to repair it. So if it is sticking up above the green push it back in. It can happen when players pull the flag out.

 

[rulie]

Might be an idea for someone to post pics of both items to remove any confusion pls

Picture of the "rings" is shown above.
Below is a hole liner. The top of the liner must be 1 inch below the surface of the putting green. The ring (if used) sits on top of the liner and the top of the ring is level with the surface of the putting green (and makes the hole non-conforming in size).

 

[Backsticks]

Picture of the "rings" is shown above.
Below is a hole liner. The top of the liner must be 1 inch below the surface of the putting green. The ring (if used) sits on top of the liner and the top of the ring is level with the surface of the putting green (and makes the hole non-conforming in size).
View attachment 49763

Why do you say no conforming in size ? If the internal dia is 4.5inch then its conforms in that respect. Potentially it is non conforming due to not being 1inch below the ground. But is someone says we must use them due to ground conditions, then they are conforming.

 

[rulefan]

Why do you say no conforming in size ? If the internal dia is 4.5inch then its conforms in that respect.

The hole must be 4 ¼ inches (108 mm) in diameter

 

[DickInShorts]

The hole must be 4 ¼ inches (108 mm) in diameter

Backsticks - standard hole cutting equipment will cut 4 1/4 inch diameter - if ‘ring’ used they would need a different machine to cut a slightly larger hole to take (double) the ring thickness into account

 

[Backsticks]

Backsticks - standard hole cutting equipment will cut 4 1/4 inch diameter - if ‘ring’ used they would need a different machine to cut a slightly larger hole to take (double) the ring thickness into account

OK, 4 1/4. If you cut the holes with a standard hole cutter, and insert a ring that is 4 1/4 inside dia, the soil is going to yield the 1mm thickness of the plastic ring, not the ring reduce. The ring is very slim. I would guess easy enough to get a ring down a standard cut holes with such a slim ring. As long as the interal dia of the ring is 4 1/4, then its a legal hole.

 

[rulie]

OK, 4 1/4. If you cut the holes with a standard hole cutter, and insert a ring that is 4 1/4 inside dia, the soil is going to yield the 1mm thickness of the plastic ring, not the ring reduce. The ring is very slim. I would guess easy enough to get a ring down a standard cut holes with such a slim ring. As long as the interal dia of the ring is 4 1/4, then its a legal hole.

Perhaps you should stop digging that hole?

 

[rulefan]

OK, 4 1/4. If you cut the holes with a standard hole cutter, and insert a ring that is 4 1/4 inside dia, the soil is going to yield the 1mm thickness of the plastic ring, not the ring reduce. The ring is very slim. I would guess easy enough to get a ring down a standard cut holes with such a slim ring. As long as the interal dia of the ring is 4 1/4, then its a legal hole.

The OP stated that EG had confirmed with the R&A that "Stabilising rings do not comply with the Rules of Golf".
EOS.

 

[D-S]

OK, 4 1/4. If you cut the holes with a standard hole cutter, and insert a ring that is 4 1/4 inside dia, the soil is going to yield the 1mm thickness of the plastic ring, not the ring reduce. The ring is very slim. I would guess easy enough to get a ring down a standard cut holes with such a slim ring. As long as the interal dia of the ring is 4 1/4, then its a legal hole.

No - from the EG Winter golf Checklist:-

"Plastic Hole-Stabilising Rings
These plastic rings are placed above the top of the hole liner, normally covering the top inch of soil – see image below. Stabilising rings do not comply with the Rules of Golf and having discussed this with the R&A, the use of these rings would not merit an exception. Any scores returned for handicap purposes when the stabilising rings are in place would NOT be acceptable for handicap purposes."