inc0gnito
Assistant Pro
Listen to the podcast. He explains why.
Patrick Reed
- Thread starter Parsaregood
- Start date
Listen to the podcast. He explains why.
JonnyGutteridge
Newbie
I'm actually in agreement with a post earlier in the thread, there is a pretty nasty mob mentality gaining traction.
Tiger cheated at The Masters..! NO ONE CARED. Tour players cheat every week, they manipulate the rules beyond what is reasonable for their own scoring/financial gain. From a moral perspective, Tiger is probably on par with Reed, if not worse. But the same people who want Reed banned from competing and outcast from society are the same people yelling 'MASHED POTATOES!!!!' every time Tiger steps on the tee.
Tiger cheated at The Masters..! NO ONE CARED. Tour players cheat every week, they manipulate the rules beyond what is reasonable for their own scoring/financial gain. From a moral perspective, Tiger is probably on par with Reed, if not worse. But the same people who want Reed banned from competing and outcast from society are the same people yelling 'MASHED POTATOES!!!!' every time Tiger steps on the tee.
D
Deleted member 23270
Guest
I'll think you'll find that plenty of people cared when Tiger 'cheated' at the Masters. If you didn't then maybe that says something about your own viewpoint on what is acceptable.
Parsaregood
Head Pro
Tiger didn't actually cheat at the masters , I'm sure this has been covered several times in this forum. There is a rules explanation for what occurred there. Now to say guys who think reed should be investigated are part of a mob of guys who shout mashed potatoes etc is just plain wrong and generalisation gone mad. Also to use the point that tour plays may or may not cheat every week so dont pick on reed, well that's just plain stupid. It's ok dont have a go at him for cheating these guys cheat aswell, what sort of attitude is that to have. It's wrong however you look at it, the tour just has to stand up and have a proper look into it and to punish/sanction properly for these things. This is how you prevent it from occurring
inc0gnito
Assistant Pro
Can’t see the mob angle you’re referring too. Just people calling out a guy who has a reputation for cheating. Who wants to support a cheat?
Doesn’t mean anyone is about to turn up at his house with pitchforks and clubs.
Springveldt
Well-known member
Bothered his caddie though.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I'll have to counter this.
Concerned about mob mentality? Well, the simply truth his, individualpeople have opinions. About you, about me, about lots of things. Some will he positive, others negative. Individuals views can vary massively, as well as the methods they express those views.
We can't really directly control this without seriously infringing on peoples rights to free speech.
If you are in the public eye, all of a sudden you now have millions of individuals who have an opinion of you. Some may be bad, some horrific. Out of such a large sample size, you are going to hear extreme views voiced, particularly now with social media and these views are expressed by people who dont necessarily care about being polite, professional, measured or politically correct.
If we are worried about Reed's mental health, to what extent can we criticise if he is thought to be cheating? When Lance Armstrong was caught doping, can people express an opinion on that, or should they all keep quiet in case it makes him unhappy?
I think mainstream media need to take a huge responsibility in how they report, especially the tabloids. They can fuel public opinion, and they can certainly stir great negativity without worrying about reasonable facts, but using very light rumours. All about selling stories, nothing much about truth.
I've not seen anything disturbing on this forum. Some have called him a blatant cheat, others are less bothered about making a big deal out of it. All perfectly normal opinion.
As for Tiger, I'll just say you are incorrect but others have already pointed this out.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
Gary Woodlands has a more pleasant demeanor than most. Certainly more refined and "classier" than some other professionals or coaches.
https://www.golf.com/news/2020/02/14/gary-woodland-patrick-reed-bahamas-rules-incident/
https://www.golf.com/news/2020/02/14/gary-woodland-patrick-reed-bahamas-rules-incident/
Depreston
Club Champion
Can’t stand the cretin tbh the rumours were flying around and then he went and done his bunker flattening act
Depreston
Club Champion
Love how tiger gets shoehorned into everything to do with golf ... the reason there is a mob mentality Is he’s been caught and he didn’t admit it he’s a liar and a cheat
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
I’ve read some steaming piles on this forum & this is right up there...!
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
We also need to remember why it is that so many players both on Tour and at club level do this… (& I’m sure I’ll get corrected if this changed last year but I don’t think it did)
It’s because they are actually allowed to fairly take their stance and address the ball when it’s in the rough, they are also permitted to change their mind about what club they want to hit
Of course they are not allowed to deliberately improve the lie by pressing down with the club but they are allowed to let the clubheads own weight reach as near the ground as it will, and if that should compress some grass… well it’s not a breach because the grass can be compressed to the point it will support the weight of the club, without breaking the rule
And then we see them change irons (under the guise of genuine indecision) and repeat the action so there’s now a little bit more compression and then its back to the first club (acceptable? or should changing clubs after address be banned under the rules or limited to once only perhaps?)
So it becomes a matter of how many times they are allowed to carry out this action to let the clubs own weight press down grass & afaik it’s not defined in the rules by a number! and its why pro’s push things beyond what we’d do on the course so it becomes a judgement for the rules guys for that comp and a talking point for keyboard warriors like us
The above (plausible?) example would suggest at an absolute minimum three times is easily acceptable under the current rules, so how difficult do you think it is for a rules guy to penalise someone for going back to the 2nd club choice & doing a 4th ?
We also see them popping the club up and down at address even when not in the rough & i'll wager this is not accidental, it will allow them a reference of how they typically address a ball so if they ever do get pulled for doing the same thing in the rough they can simply point to a shot on the fairway and say 'look at that I do it all the time'
It’s because they are actually allowed to fairly take their stance and address the ball when it’s in the rough, they are also permitted to change their mind about what club they want to hit
Of course they are not allowed to deliberately improve the lie by pressing down with the club but they are allowed to let the clubheads own weight reach as near the ground as it will, and if that should compress some grass… well it’s not a breach because the grass can be compressed to the point it will support the weight of the club, without breaking the rule
And then we see them change irons (under the guise of genuine indecision) and repeat the action so there’s now a little bit more compression and then its back to the first club (acceptable? or should changing clubs after address be banned under the rules or limited to once only perhaps?)
So it becomes a matter of how many times they are allowed to carry out this action to let the clubs own weight press down grass & afaik it’s not defined in the rules by a number! and its why pro’s push things beyond what we’d do on the course so it becomes a judgement for the rules guys for that comp and a talking point for keyboard warriors like us
The above (plausible?) example would suggest at an absolute minimum three times is easily acceptable under the current rules, so how difficult do you think it is for a rules guy to penalise someone for going back to the 2nd club choice & doing a 4th ?
We also see them popping the club up and down at address even when not in the rough & i'll wager this is not accidental, it will allow them a reference of how they typically address a ball so if they ever do get pulled for doing the same thing in the rough they can simply point to a shot on the fairway and say 'look at that I do it all the time'
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Sports_Fanatic
Assistant Pro
I accept Reed is a hard person to defend and should face criticism for the bunker incident (although the Tour did "deal" with it at the time), but i do also agree that people pile on when they see momentum and so much is wrapped up in the media image presented. For example, Reed regularly is criticised for falling out with family and cutting them off - i don't know the incident but that's not golf related and feels like it should be left.
As a comparative example, Mickelson has been involved/associated in two counts of fraud (Insider dealing and college admissions scammer) and gets rarely mentioned. He regularly has convenient drops and said he was gaming the rules when deliberately knocking a moving ball back. Yes he looked a fool on that incident, and probably a moment of frustration but that sort of deliberate action it is cheating but again it's mentioned rarely and i don't recall other golfers having much to say.
I think for all Reed's actions, it's now for the PGA to deal with (as they "did" the bunker incident) and the constant media articles should slow down on it. Interesting though as I saw he was up at the top of the leader board yesterday - could be fireworks when he makes the Ryder Cup team.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Pretty sure Mickleson got massive criticism at the time when he hit the moving ball back. Massive. And, he openly admitted to thinking he could do it within the rules (with a small penalty included rather than DQ). Kuchar got massive criticism when he didn't pay his part time caddie when he won a big event. Woods gets criticised any time he doesn't sign an autograph or pulls out injured, with people blaming it on the fact he just pulled out due to bad score.
Reed got massive criticism for the sand incident. Problem is, it wont go away because more and more in game are suggesting it was not a one off incident, with various sources suggesting he gets up to this all the time.
Ironically, the problem for Reed is, people didn't call him.out much earlier. Had they done, perhaps he could have done more not to bend rules, and therecwouldnt be multiple breaches to talk about. But, people generally stayed quiet, and now it suddenly came right out in open, they are coming out of the woodwork now with all these other incidents. Mind you, had his antiques been highlighted to him previously, even via a private word, he has less of a leg to stand on.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Jacko_G
Blackballed
So Kostis now admitting the actions may not have been intentional or premeditated. I suspect a court date will be coming up in future. Sounds like hes had him moment of fame, wonder if its going to be worth it in the long run????
Swango1980
Well-known member
That's just the way of the world though, isn't it. Especially if your making statements the wider public will read, you have to be careful and "cover yourself" for any counter action. His personal opinion / hunch may well be that Reed deliberately did what he did, but of course he cannot come out and say he did it deliberately, as without Reed actually admitting it, how can you prove it. And so, if he was careless enough to say it was deliberate, and Reed felt Kostis was tarnishing Reed's reputation without conclusive evidence, then he could get hammered by legal action.
His statement certainly doesn't imply that he feels Reed did it accidentally, only that he MAY have done it accidentally, even if he things there is only a 0.0001% chance he did it by accident.
robinthehood
Hacker
I have heard that a lot of pros do the resting the club behind the ball. I guess he doesn't like reed very much .
Jacko_G
Blackballed
He's covered himself my backside. He has gone public calling out someone for incidents that may or may not have happened and called him a cheat. This has milage.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
What does the individual with low self-esteem and so an inherent fear of failure do? He will often act the positive carefree up front guy, but will also cheat or lie even when he is well capable of succeeding without doing so. He does not need to cheat or lie - but his insecurity and self-esteem are such that he will - even when he knows he is likely to get found out...he can't help it.
So we can crticise golfer A, B or C for cheating - brand and call him a cheat - but I think we do need to be a little bit wary if we think of doing so.
So we can crticise golfer A, B or C for cheating - brand and call him a cheat - but I think we do need to be a little bit wary if we think of doing so.
