Not knowing the very basics of rules in comps.

[backwoodsman]

In one of your posts you say "...because once it has been conceded the hole has been completed by the player...". And the rules say that once a hole is completed, you can practise on the the green just played. So, if I've completed the hole, I can make a practice putt. (And yes, I know the result of the hole may not yet be determined, but that's a different thing).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...but what happens if I don't hear the concession? Does a player have to hear a concession (and perhaps also acknowledge it) for the concession to have been made.

 

[rulie]

Make every concessions clear to everyone. (even to the hard of hearing!)

 

[3 jabber]

Does anyone really think that in the current climate a club can afford to turn away a years membership fee because they scored 80% not 85% on a rules test? Also, backing up @HomerJSimpson point. What if existing members fail? Do you kick them out? Golf clubs don't have that luxury on the whole.

We can, 200 on our waiting list

 

[Lord Tyrion]

We can, 200 on our waiting list

Hence my caveat of on the whole .

It's nice to be in that position

 

[3 jabber]

Hence my caveat of on the whole .

It's nice to be in that position

There are 3 good clubs in my area, I suspect those 200 people are on all 3 waiting lists

 

[D-S]

Does anyone really think that in the current climate a club can afford to turn away a years membership fee because they scored 80% not 85% on a rules test? Also, backing up @HomerJSimpson point. What if existing members fail? Do you kick them out? Golf clubs don't have that luxury on the whole.

It’s not about being a member or not, it’s about being able to win other members money in a competition.

There are hurdles that committees put in place to ‘ensure handicap accuracy’, why shouldn’t having a basic knowledge of the rules be considered in a similar way?

 

[rulie]

It’s not about being a member or not, it’s about being able to win other members money in a competition.

There are hurdles that committees put in place to ‘ensure handicap accuracy’, why shouldn’t having a basic knowledge of the rules be considered in a similar way?

Must a new test be taken every time the Rules change?

 

[jim8flog]

Though again...my original question was about me not hearing the concession, then being challenged after I holed out.

I thought that would be covered by

(2) How Concessions Are Made. A concession is made only when clearly communicated:

If you did not hear it can be argued it was not clearly comnunicated.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

There are 3 good clubs in my area, I suspect those 200 people are on all 3 waiting lists

And if all 3 clubs then agreed to introduce a rules test then they'd be no better or worse off and would have a little more understanding before they got out and playing. I do feel if you have to have handicaps gained with members (and in some cases playing a round with board members - not unheard of) then is it really a huge leap to learn the basic rules and take a test. It doesn't have to be DP world tour standards but should cover the basics especially hitting OOB, lost balls, bunkers and penalty areas

 

[Steven Rules]

5.5b Restriction on Practice Strokes After Completing Hole After completing play of a hole

For the purposes of 5.5b (and others), in four-ball match play a side has completed a hole and is therefore between the play of two holes when both partners have holed out, or their next strokes have been conceded, or the outcome of the hole has been determined. (Clarification 6.5/1)

It is not necessarily dependent on where the opponents are up to with their play of the hole.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We have a new ditch/swale across our 17th Hole; we have defined it as a Penalty Area - it has two bridges across it. To avoid 'confusion and mistakes' our Handicap Secretary - who is also a Surrey County Referee - has done two very short videos for us, explaining the procedures we must follow and our options for all likely scenarios around the ditches/swales; the bridges, and the Red Stakes defining the PA. Should be mandatory viewing for all members - a bit like at work we have mandatory training

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We have a new ditch/swale across our 17th Hole; we have defined it as a Penalty Area - it has two bridges across it. To avoid 'confusion and mistakes' our Handicap Secretary - who is also a Surrey County Referee - has done two very short videos for us, explaining the procedures we must follow and our options for all likely scenarios around the dirtches/swales; the bridges, and the Red Post defining the PA. Should be mandatory viewing for all members - a bit like at work we have mandatory training

We have a bridge over a protected area of scientific interest and the amount of debate it causes if the ball lands on the bridge across this area. It was all laid out for members in the rules evening the DP referee came to and sent out to all members after but no-one can seem bothered to read the information

 

[rulie]

We have a bridge over a protected area of scientific interest and the amount of debate it causes if the ball lands on the bridge across this area. It was all laid out for members in the rules evening the DP referee came to and sent out to all members after but no-one can seem bothered to read the information

Out of curiosity, how is the "protected area" marked for play - penalty area, GUR or ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

PROVISIONAL BALL) and DROPPING ZONE - LOCAL RULE - As Authorised by the R&A3RD HOLE (PROVISIONAL BALL) LOCAL RULE
If there is DOUBT whether a ball is in or is lost in the ESA, on the 3rd hole, the player may play another ball provisionally under any of the applicable options in Rule26-1.If the original ball is found outside the ESA, the player must continue play with it. If the original ball is known or it is virtually certain that the ball is in the ESA, thep layer must continue with the ball played provisionally under Rule 26-1.If the original ball is not found or identified within the three-minute search period, the player must continue with the ball played provisionally.
FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes

3RD HOLE (DROPPING ZONE) LOCAL RULE If it's certain that your ball is in the Environmentally Sensitive Area (ESA), you have the option of playing another ball from where you last played, or play from the Dropping Zone .If a ball comes to rest on the bridge across the ESA it is deemed to be in the ESA, under which circumstances play must continue from where you last played, or play from the Dropping Zone under rule 26.1.
FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes

 

[rulie]

PROVISIONAL BALL) and DROPPING ZONE - LOCAL RULE - As Authorised by the R&A3RD HOLE (PROVISIONAL BALL) LOCAL RULE
If there is DOUBT whether a ball is in or is lost in the ESA, on the 3rd hole, the player may play another ball provisionally under any of the applicable options in Rule26-1.If the original ball is found outside the ESA, the player must continue play with it. If the original ball is known or it is virtually certain that the ball is in the ESA, thep layer must continue with the ball played provisionally under Rule 26-1.If the original ball is not found or identified within the three-minute search period, the player must continue with the ball played provisionally.
FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes

3RD HOLE (DROPPING ZONE) LOCAL RULE If it's certain that your ball is in the Environmentally Sensitive Area (ESA), you have the option of playing another ball from where you last played, or play from the Dropping Zone .If a ball comes to rest on the bridge across the ESA it is deemed to be in the ESA, under which circumstances play must continue from where you last played, or play from the Dropping Zone under rule 26.1.
FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes

Those Local Rules and Rule numbers are from prior to 2019. There is nothing in the current Rules regarding "ESA"; it has been replaced by "No Play Zone" (NPZ) and a NPZ must either be a penalty area or GUR. Reading the existing Local Rules, it appears that the "ESA" was considered a water hazard (now a penalty area).
The club should update the Local Rules, and confirm with the R&A whether the new Local Rules are authorized.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Those Local Rules and Rule numbers are from prior to 2019. There is nothing in the current Rules regarding "ESA"; it has been replaced by "No Play Zone" (NPZ) and a NPZ must either be a penalty area or GUR. Reading the existing Local Rules, it appears that the "ESA" was considered a water hazard (now a penalty area).
The club should update the Local Rules, and confirm with the R&A whether the new Local Rules are authorized.

Actually found this on the club website but very tucked away and so I will make sure the club re-publish as I am sure with new members this isn't known or adhered to or the old version is still being used.

2. Penalty Areas (Rules of Golf 17)a. All ditches & ponds marked with yellow or red stakes including constructed crossing points
b. The ecological areas to the front of the 3rd tee, to the left of the 7th, to the rear of the 12th, right of the 14th & to the front of the 18th white tees are marked by yellow or red stakes with a green band near the top. The areas are designated NO PLAY ZONES & may not be entered to retrieve a ball or take a stance. If a ball comes to rest in any of these areas, then the ball must not be played or retrieved & relief must be taken from the interference by the no play zone under Rule 17.1.e or the ball should be dropped under penalty of one stroke within the marked dropping zone.
c. If a ball comes to rest on the boardwalks crossing the 3rd &18th no play zones, these are classed as within the penalty area & relief must be taken as described above.
d. The penalty area crossing the 3rd hole is a no play zone (ESA) – indicated by yellow stakes with green tops. When a ball is in the no play zone penalty area, the ball must not be played as it lies and relief must be taken from interference by the no play zone under Rule 17.1e.If a player does not know whether his or her ball is in the no play zone penalty area, the player may play a provisional ball under Rule 18.3, which is modified in this way: In playing the provisional ball, the player may use the stroke-and-distance relief option (see Rule 17.1d(1)), the back-on-the-line relief option (see Rule 17.1d(2)) or, as an extra option, drop the original or another ball in the dropping zone defined by the area within the white tipped posts just short of the ESA.

The dropping zone is a relief area under Rule 14.3.Once the player has played a provisional ball under this Rule, he or she may not use any further options under Rule 17.1 in relation to the original ball. In deciding when that provisional ball becomes the player’s ball in play or must be abandoned, Rule 18.3c(2) and 18.3c(3) apply except that when the original ball is found in the no play zone penalty area within the three-minute search time or is known or virtually certain to be in the no play zone penalty area the provisional ball becomes the player’s ball in play.

(This rule has been simplified for ease of understanding as follows: -If, after teeing off the 3rd Tee, a player is not certain whether his or her ball has crossed the no-play ESA in front of the tee, the player may use the dropping zone in front of the ESA to play a provisional ball. If after playing such a provisional ball the original ball is subsequently found to have crossed the ESA, the provisional ball may be abandoned and the original ball becomes the ball in play. This option is only available if it is known or virtually certain that, if not found, the original ball must lie in the ESA. In any other circumstance the player mustplay a provisional ball under stroke and distance or back on the line of relief rule in the usual way.)
June 2023

 

[Doon frae Troon]

No need for a rules quiz.

My old junior section had a 4 stage improvement certificate system.
First two were based on length and accuracy of shots and putting. Not too difficult to achieve
The third involved a tougher form of the above plus bunker shots and two random rules questions
If they passed they could play in adult club competitions.
The fourth involved a tougher form of above but instead of the rules questions they were given an on course rule situation [eg ball resting against a red water hazzard marker] and they had to find the correct ruling from the rule book.

There were quite a lot of first time failures on the rule book for 4th certificates

Set a few decent golfers on their way. The quality would surprise many.