Rules in club comps

2blue

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
4,212
Location
Leeds,
Visit site
Am I detecting here, a rather 'casual' approach to the rules so that new golfers & others, who can't be bothered, don't have 'the fun' taken out of their golf whilst potentially winning Club Comps? Hemmmmm... interesting!!
 

RichA

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
3,263
Location
UK
Visit site
Am I detecting here, a rather 'casual' approach to the rules so that new golfers & others, who can't be bothered, don't have 'the fun' taken out of their golf whilst potentially winning Club Comps? Hemmmmm... interesting!!
No. You are detecting people advocating getting on with it and having fun while learning on the job, because it's not Open qualification.
 

Orikoru

Tour Winner
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
25,830
Location
Watford
Visit site
Am I detecting here, a rather 'casual' approach to the rules so that new golfers & others, who can't be bothered, don't have 'the fun' taken out of their golf whilst potentially winning Club Comps? Hemmmmm... interesting!!
Not really, it's just realism. Very few people know every single rule by heart. Very few people are going to stand about on the course getting the rule book/app out to check 100% what they're doing is correct. Most experienced players have a good working knowledge of the rules though, and can come to satisfactory agreement that allows the game to continue.
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,259
Location
Bristol
Visit site
I’m always concerned about those who ‘deliberately’ do not know the rules and choose not to learn them, in the mistaken belief that if they don’t know the rule, then when they just make up a nicer one, it is not cheating just ignorance which is seemingly ok.

I also wonder how often players just making it up due to their ‘lack of knowledge’, end up being better off than they otherwise would have been - my bet is almost always.
 

Dando

Q-School Graduate
Banned
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
10,613
Location
Se London
Visit site
I’m always concerned about those who ‘deliberately’ do not know the rules and choose not to learn them, in the mistaken belief that if they don’t know the rule, then when they just make up a nicer one, it is not cheating just ignorance which is seemingly ok.

I also wonder how often players just making it up due to their ‘lack of knowledge’, end up being better off than they otherwise would have been - my bet is almost always.
a guy who has recently left my club "didn't know" that if you hit OOB then it's an automatic reload. he thought you could drop roughly where the ball went out and add on 2 shots.
 

RichA

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
3,263
Location
UK
Visit site
Amateur recreational club golf is about on a par with Sunday league football and village cricket, in terms of real world importance.
In those, half the players know only half the rules, the refs and umpires are mostly unqualified (or possibly spare members of one of the teams) and officiate the games almost by consent.
Yet everyone just gets on with it.

I don't get why there's an expectation by some of encyclopaedic knowledge of the Rules of Golf to play in the West Bubbleflip GC Sunday Stableford Cup Round 3.
My guess would be that those most likely to actively and knowingly cheat are the ones who do know the rules but choose to circumnavigate them, rather than the guys playing their new hobby.
 

Backache

Assistant Pro
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
2,115
Visit site
Not really, it's just realism. Very few people know every single rule by heart. Very few people are going to stand about on the course getting the rule book/app out to check 100% what they're doing is correct. Most experienced players have a good working knowledge of the rules though, and can come to satisfactory agreement that allows the game to continue.
You can always play a second ball or check the rule before returning the card, both of which I've seen done and have done the second a couple of times.
 

RichA

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
3,263
Location
UK
Visit site
a guy who has recently left my club "didn't know" that if you hit OOB then it's an automatic reload. he thought you could drop roughly where the ball went out and add on 2 shots.
That is the rule in some comps, like Mizuno Pairs. No wonder people get confused.
 

Orikoru

Tour Winner
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
25,830
Location
Watford
Visit site
I’m always concerned about those who ‘deliberately’ do not know the rules and choose not to learn them, in the mistaken belief that if they don’t know the rule, then when they just make up a nicer one, it is not cheating just ignorance which is seemingly ok.

I also wonder how often players just making it up due to their ‘lack of knowledge’, end up being better off than they otherwise would have been - my bet is almost always.
I would never just completely make up what to do. Usually I or someone I'm playing with will have an idea about what the rule is. If everyone is completely clueless that's the only time I'd have to consider opening up the rules app. Or sometimes, if you're unsure, you can take the lesser of two evils to be on the safe side. For example, you're not sure if it's one or two club lengths for a drop - rather than waste time looking it up I'd just take one club length and then you're fine either way.

a guy who has recently left my club "didn't know" that if you hit OOB then it's an automatic reload. he thought you could drop roughly where the ball went out and add on 2 shots.
In fairness, that is an optional 'local rule' that was brought in for recreational play isn't it? So he just needed correcting that it's not allowed in competition. Hopefully he only needed correcting once - any more than that and you'd have to start considering him a cheat.
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,259
Location
Bristol
Visit site
I’ve refereed some club finals and despite an ‘official’ being present the lack of basic knowledge is staggering. For example, in a foursomes final when his partner carved a tee shot way OB a player said to him ‘don’t worry we can drop one up there’ pointing to where it had crossed the OB line - this was meant in all seriousness.
The ‘rules are very complicated and no one can be expected them all by heart’ defence is used by some not to know (or abide by) the basics and to make no effort at all ever to improve knowledge.
Just hoping that there may be someone else in the group who has a vague idea is no excuse not try and learn.
 

Orikoru

Tour Winner
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
25,830
Location
Watford
Visit site
I’ve refereed some club finals and despite an ‘official’ being present the lack of basic knowledge is staggering. For example, in a foursomes final when his partner carved a tee shot way OB a player said to him ‘don’t worry we can drop one up there’ pointing to where it had crossed the OB line - this was meant in all seriousness.
The ‘rules are very complicated and no one can be expected them all by heart’ defence is used by some not to know (or abide by) the basics and to make no effort at all ever to improve knowledge.
Just hoping that there may be someone else in the group who has a vague idea is no excuse not try and learn.
The thing is, every time that happens that's when you do learn. That's the whole point. That guy who thought he could drop for out of bounds was told immediately that he can't do that, and one hopes that he'll remember that for next time. So my point about the group consensus coming to the right conclusion was accurate.
 

Dando

Q-School Graduate
Banned
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
10,613
Location
Se London
Visit site
I would never just completely make up what to do. Usually I or someone I'm playing with will have an idea about what the rule is. If everyone is completely clueless that's the only time I'd have to consider opening up the rules app. Or sometimes, if you're unsure, you can take the lesser of two evils to be on the safe side. For example, you're not sure if it's one or two club lengths for a drop - rather than waste time looking it up I'd just take one club length and then you're fine either way.


In fairness, that is an optional 'local rule' that was brought in for recreational play isn't it? So he just needed correcting that it's not allowed in competition. Hopefully he only needed correcting once - any more than that and you'd have to start considering him a cheat.
he needs telling every time
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,259
Location
Bristol
Visit site
The thing is, every time that happens that's when you do learn. That's the whole point. That guy who thought he could drop for out of bounds was told immediately that he can't do that, and one hopes that he'll remember that for next time. So my point about the group consensus coming to the right conclusion was accurate.
Sadly he only learnt because there was a referee present who pointed out his error.
He had reached a club final and was not an inexperienced beginner - patently he hadn’t learned this absolute basic up until then. Hitting a ball OB is not some obscure rare occurrence and the procedure under the rules is not exactly difficult to understand. However he had not learned and apparently none of all his fellow competitors down the years knew or had explained the correct procedure. This is just one example.
How can the ‘group’ get it right if none of them know? How do they come to the ‘right conclusion’ not just the simplest or nicest? How do they even know it is the ‘right conclusion’?
 

Orikoru

Tour Winner
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
25,830
Location
Watford
Visit site
he needs telling every time
Then he's either a cheat or a moron. 😁

Sadly he only learnt because there was a referee present who pointed out his error.
He had reached a club final and was not an inexperienced beginner - patently he hadn’t learned this absolute basic up until then. Hitting a ball OB is not some obscure rare occurrence and the procedure under the rules is not exactly difficult to understand. However he had not learned and apparently none of all his fellow competitors down the years knew or had explained the correct procedure. This is just one example.
How can the ‘group’ get it right if none of them know? How do they come to the ‘right conclusion’ not just the simplest or nicest? How do they even know it is the ‘right conclusion’?
That's insane though. I feel like it's less likely that he'd never experienced that and been corrected, and more likely that he was just trying it on for some reason. Or got confused about the local rule for dropping under 2 shot penalty that's not for comps (as a different post touched upon earlier).

This may be controversial to you, but I do feel that if a 25 handicapper takes a drop from 2 club lengths instead of 1, or in the nicest point of relief instead of nearest, I don't believe it affects his score enough to lose any sleep over. Eventually he'll play with someone who corrects him, and then he'll know. As @RichA said earlier, we're out here for fun at the end of the day, not for a living.
 

Imurg

The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
36,967
Location
Aylesbury Bucks
Visit site
Surely, if you play any sport at any competitive level, you need to have a basic knowledge of the rules of the game otherwise you simply can't play it.
Mucking about with mates - you can make it up as its not really competitive
But when there's money, a trophy or even bragging rights at stake a working knowledge has to be the minimum.....
Yes, a lot of Golf rules can be confusing but the basic ones that crop up every day are not hard to learn....
And they're no more tricky that the handball, offside or LBW rules.....
 

RichA

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
3,263
Location
UK
Visit site
But when there's money, a trophy or even bragging rights at stake a working knowledge has to be the minimum.....
Yes, a lot of Golf rules can be confusing but the basic ones that crop up every day are not hard to learn....
And they're no more tricky than the handball, offside or LBW rules.....
...which a huge number of amateur players and a significant number of professional commentators and pundits aren't entirely sure about.
Not sure which side of the discussion you're supporting there. 😎
 

Imurg

The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
36,967
Location
Aylesbury Bucks
Visit site
...which a huge number of amateur players and a significant number of professional commentators and pundits aren't entirely sure about.
Not sure which side of the discussion you're supporting there. 😎
Even Sunday league pub team players know the basic offside rule - not necessarily in the detail required at higher levels but they'll know the rule..same with handball
To not know how to deal with red, white or blue stakes, to not know the OB rule means you don't know how to play the game at a competitive level...no matter how competitive it is.
And by "competitive " I mean when something is at stake, not just mucking around...
 

RichA

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
3,263
Location
UK
Visit site
Even Sunday league pub team players know the basic offside rule - not necessarily in the detail required at higher levels but they'll know the rule..same with handball
To not know how to deal with red, white or blue stakes, to not know the OB rule means you don't know how to play the game at a competitive level...no matter how competitive it is.
And by "competitive " I mean when something is at stake, not just mucking around...
Ok.
I feel that I have a reasonable knowledge of the rules. I've been playing in comps for 4 years and have never had any problem situations crop up.
However, I have never seen a blue stake and have no idea what it would signify.
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,259
Location
Bristol
Visit site
Ok.
I feel that I have a reasonable knowledge of the rules. I've been playing in comps for 4 years and have never had any problem situations crop up.
However, I have never seen a blue stake and have no idea what it would signify.
So without all the faff and fuss of checking a rules book or app and with playing partners who are similar to you, what would you do if your ball was in an area marked by blue stakes?
 

BiMGuy

LIV Bot, (But Not As Big As Mel) ?
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
6,662
Visit site
Even Sunday league pub team players know the basic offside rule - not necessarily in the detail required at higher levels but they'll know the rule..same with handball
To not know how to deal with red, white or blue stakes, to not know the OB rule means you don't know how to play the game at a competitive level...no matter how competitive it is.
And by "competitive " I mean when something is at stake, not just mucking around...
In every sport I have played competitively there have been players and officials involved that don’t know the rules, even the basic ones. I encounter people who don’t understand the offside rule every weekend it seems.

Golf is no different. Many rules are just ignored. Time looking for balls, not taking proper drops, taking relief when there should be a penalty etc.
 
Top