Opens and Prizes

[Arthur Wedge]

That's a bit black and white. Yes I agree, but would you just shrug your shoulders if you won but could not collect the prize? And lets not forget, these can be substantial.

If I know I was ineligible for winning the prize then I would be fully aware

 

[Swango1980]

Do you play opens to win prizes or to play at another course for lower than the green fee

One of the big attractions for Opens is the Competition. Playing as a team, and trying to all contribute and support each other in getting a good score. And the buzz you feel when you are on a good score.

I don't really care what the prize is, but I do care about it being a competition. If my plan was to simply turn up to play the course cheaply, we could all just bin the competition, play normal social golf, and maybe put General Play scores in. Or, if the Club simply offered a deal for visitors to play in a social slot for discounted green fees, I wouldn't be interested in playing most of the time. It would be a choice of driving to an away course (which could be over an hour away, as some of the Opens are when I play) and paying a green fee, or just playing my own course for free.

 

[3 jabber]

One of the big attractions for Opens is the Competition. Playing as a team, and trying to all contribute and support each other in getting a good score. And the buzz you feel when you are on a good score.

I don't really care what the prize is, but I do care about it being a competition. If my plan was to simply turn up to play the course cheaply, we could all just bin the competition, play normal social golf, and maybe put General Play scores in. Or, if the Club simply offered a deal for visitors to play in a social slot for discounted green fees, I wouldn't be interested in playing most of the time. It would be a choice of driving to an away course (which could be over an hour away, as some of the Opens are when I play) and paying a green fee, or just playing my own course for free.

You can still have the competitive edge even though you can't win a prize? Whenever I play in a comp the target is to have a lower handicap than when I started and that is what spurs me on to play well. Crazyface has the option to submit the required number of cards by playing a few stablefords at his home club, I really don't see what the problem is.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

One of the big attractions for Opens is the Competition. Playing as a team, and trying to all contribute and support each other in getting a good score. And the buzz you feel when you are on a good score.

I don't really care what the prize is, but I do care about it being a competition. If my plan was to simply turn up to play the course cheaply, we could all just bin the competition, play normal social golf, and maybe put General Play scores in. Or, if the Club simply offered a deal for visitors to play in a social slot for discounted green fees, I wouldn't be interested in playing most of the time. It would be a choice of driving to an away course (which could be over an hour away, as some of the Opens are when I play) and paying a green fee, or just playing my own course for free.

You don’t need to earn a prize to have some sort of competitive nature about your round

Every open I play in it’s still a competition to try and score as best as you can

 

[Deleted member 30853]

Team opens have always been like this. A bit of fun for higher handicap players. I know this before playing so just go out to play a good course at a cheaper price than normal.
I agree the prizes should be moderated though, as earlier said I 4 ball voucher would be more than good enough

 

[Backache]

Surely, you can still win its just that in some circumstances there is no prize for winning other than kudos.

 

[Swango1980]

You can still have the competitive edge even though you can't win a prize? Whenever I play in a comp the target is to have a lower handicap than when I started and that is what spurs me on to play well. Crazyface has the option to submit the required number of cards by playing a few stablefords at his home club, I really don't see what the problem is.

I agree with the general statement. When I play in comps, it isn't about winning for me. But, if I do play well, it is nice to finish in the prizes within a competition, a bit of a reward for doing well. Even if it is a token award, like on a weekend social where you get a few quid or your coffee bought for you.

So, paying an entry fee into a team competition, I want to be there to compete and hope we can all lead the team to the prizes. And, very occasionally, this might actually become a reality. Given that competition prizes will be funded from the competition entry fee, it just doesn't sit well with me that the team could be really well, finish high up within the competition, and yet teams that did worse than us are rewarded (which our fee helped to fund).

So, fair enough if you are a person who is happy to enter a competition knowing you won't get a prize, even if you finish in the prizes. I'm just saying I wouldn't, and I'm sure many others wouldn't either

 

[Chip&Run]

"Prizes and Prize Vouchers can be claimed by competitors with a "Full Handicap Record" containing a minimum of SIX Singles Competition Scorecards."

Taken from Lancaster Golf Club website. It's a start, but it prevents us from playing. I like playing there as well.

Why dont you ask to play in the open but not be included in any prizes?

 

[Backache]

I agree with the general statement. When I play in comps, it isn't about winning for me. But, if I do play well, it is nice to finish in the prizes within a competition, a bit of a reward for doing well. Even if it is a token award, like on a weekend social where you get a few quid or your coffee bought for you.

So, paying an entry fee into a team competition, I want to be there to compete and hope we can all lead the team to the prizes. And, very occasionally, this might actually become a reality. Given that competition prizes will be funded from the competition entry fee, it just doesn't sit well with me that the team could be really well, finish high up within the competition, and yet teams that did worse than us are rewarded (which our fee helped to fund).

So, fair enough if you are a person who is happy to enter a competition knowing you won't get a prize, even if you finish in the prizes. I'm just saying I wouldn't, and I'm sure many others wouldn't either

Nothing is perfect but it strikes me that it is a reasonable way for clubs to lessen the effects of bandits particularly in Opens where they have no means of assessing the veracity of visitors handicaps. If it means so much to people to win the actual prize , just make sure you have six competitive scores on your handicap record , when there are twenty there it is hardly difficult if playing opens is a frequent part of your golf.

 

[Swango1980]

Nothing is perfect but it strikes me that it is a reasonable way for clubs to lessen the effects of bandits particularly in Opens where they have no means of assessing the veracity of visitors handicaps. If it means so much to people to win the actual prize , just make sure you have six competitive scores on your handicap record , when there are twenty there it is hardly difficult if playing opens is a frequent part of your golf.

I'm sure this would be manageable most of the time.

For me, personally, it would be tricky, particularly at this time of year. I play in pretty much every competition going at my club (at weekends), so I reckon I'd play in about 20 competitions annually, that qualify for handicap. But, I also play lots socially. So, each summer weekend I'd typically play one Comp round and one GP round. If that pattern was consistent, that would give me 10 comp scores in last 20. But, I'll also play once or twice after work during the week, so my GP scores would ramp up. So, even if it was summer all year round, there would be times I'd have fewer than 6 comp scores in my last 20. We also have no competitions at all from November to April (a few Stablefords start in April), but weather permitting we can still submit GP scores. So, I could easily have built up 20 out of 20 GP scores over a period of 5 months of winter.

So, to meet the criteria of such events, I'd have to be desperate enough to restrict the cards I submit for GP scores. People might not see an issue with that (but if I score 40+ points in a social score, people might start criticizing me for not submitting that?). That goes against the intention of how handicapping is supposed to work. Had the event said "6 competition scores in the last year" I's have no issues with that. I wouldn't even care if they increased that to 10+ comps a year. It bothers me more that you'd got to manage the proportion of comp scores at any given point.

 

[D-S]

What does a full handicap record mean?

I'm assuming they mean a record that contains a minimum of 20 scores? But, what if the full handicap record contains 500 scores with 6 Competition scores. You probably wouldn't need to be a good barrister to argue that you should be eligible based on the wording of that condition?

I must admit that the wording is unclear.
Does it mean 6 comp scores in your last 20?
If so, if for example you come back from abroad just before the Open comp and you have submitted 15 GP scores are you not eligible for prizes? Even though you may have lots of comp scores on your record in the past 12 months.

 

[Swango1980]

I must admit that the wording is unclear.
Does it mean 6 comp scores in your last 20?
If so, if for example you come back from abroad just before the Open comp and you have submitted 15 GP scores are you not eligible for prizes? Even though you may have lots of comp scores on your record in the past 12 months.

One of the weaknesses of such a condition, if that is how it should be interpreted.

Another decent example as well. I often go to France for a weeks golf in September. That is 6 GP scores going on my record, which could hinder my eligibility.

 

[wjemather]

I must admit that the wording is unclear.
Does it mean 6 comp scores in your last 20?
If so, if for example you come back from abroad just before the Open comp and you have submitted 15 GP scores are you not eligible for prizes? Even though you may have lots of comp scores on your record in the past 12 months.

That would go against the directive that GP scores cannot be restricted.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

That would go against the directive that GP scores cannot be restricted.

It's something I'm seeing in pretty much all of the opens I'm playing in this year. If it's a directive, it's being ignored.

 

[3 jabber]

I'm sure this would be manageable most of the time.

For me, personally, it would be tricky, particularly at this time of year. I play in pretty much every competition going at my club (at weekends), so I reckon I'd play in about 20 competitions annually, that qualify for handicap. But, I also play lots socially. So, each summer weekend I'd typically play one Comp round and one GP round. If that pattern was consistent, that would give me 10 comp scores in last 20. But, I'll also play once or twice after work during the week, so my GP scores would ramp up. So, even if it was summer all year round, there would be times I'd have fewer than 6 comp scores in my last 20. We also have no competitions at all from November to April (a few Stablefords start in April), but weather permitting we can still submit GP scores. So, I could easily have built up 20 out of 20 GP scores over a period of 5 months of winter.

So, to meet the criteria of such events, I'd have to be desperate enough to restrict the cards I submit for GP scores. People might not see an issue with that (but if I score 40+ points in a social score, people might start criticizing me for not submitting that?). That goes against the intention of how handicapping is supposed to work. Had the event said "6 competition scores in the last year" I's have no issues with that. I wouldn't even care if they increased that to 10+ comps a year. It bothers me more that you'd got to manage the proportion of comp scores at any given point.

I don't think there is any requirement for the 6 competition rounds to be in your last 20, just for them to be on your handicap record within a certain time period ie last 12 months?

 

[wjemather]

It's something I'm seeing in pretty much all of the opens I'm playing in this year. If it's a directive, it's being ignored.

...or the comms has not been read (by the right people), or it's being misunderstood.

 

[D-S]

That would go against the directive that GP scores cannot be restricted.

Agreed that it is against the directive and the comms are being ignored but how is this sort of thing stopped in the real world? Especially if this is becoming commonplace.
The messaging or education needs to improve as it is apparently not working as is.

 

[wjemather]

Agreed that it is against the directive and the comms are being ignored but how is this sort of thing stopped in the real world? Especially if this is becoming commonplace.
The messaging or education needs to improve as it is apparently not working as is.

In many cases, hand-holding is the only way. Some people simply find the whole concept of terms of competition (and what is and is not allowed) hard to understand and no amount of general comms and education will help.
Of course there are a few people who will always think they know better or simply disagree with the whole philosophy and will insist on doing their own thing until sanctions are forthcoming - no amount of general comms and education will change them either.

 

[IanM]

If sanctions for non compliance of any directive are a real option, how clearly are they mentioned in the directive? If not, why not?

I'd wind it all up. Have an Open event, the prize is a bag of tees worth 55p. Come and enjoy the course and cheat all you want, who cares?

All the proper stuff is off scratch.

 

[The Squirrel]

…or if you really want a substantial prize amount then a donation to a charity of your choice? Particularly if you are playing for a cause you have a meaningful relationship with (local hospice or whatever) then that surely still gets the competitive juices flowing for most, but is unlikely to attract self-interested bandits?