Nomads to get official handicaps

[memememe]

I wonder if the R&A will continue to think this is a good idea if a significant number of nomads find themesleves with handicaps of +3 and enter the Amateur Championship or the Open without ever having played in a competition round in their life.

That could make for some interesting Regional Open Qualifying Rounds.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

In my experience this is not true.
I've put in 3 supplementaries, 1 last weekend, one yesterday and one today.
The cards from yesterday and today, although I've input the scores and uploaded the card on IG, apparently don't get input to WHS until verified by the club office on Monday.
Each card needs to be countersigned by a playing partner, the same as before. I don't know if this is the specific to IG and/or my club, but it's not just a case of inputting a score and watching your handicap change.

As Handicap Chairman I did exactly what I said using Club V1. There is no need in the rules or the software for a physical card and no accept / reject option for an administrator anymore (just a delete which I did). Your club has a solid policy (as does ours) but the Covid Rules make countersigning cards very difficult and players are encouragrd to enter scores online.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

It would be easy enough for any club to negate any negative impact on their open competitions they feel may be coming their way via this new development. All they need to do is change the entry criteria for their open comps to be must have a handicap AND must be a member of a golf club, so no nomads with new WHS handicaps in their open comps if they don't want them.

The lawyers will love that one.

 

[doublebogey7]

The lawyers will love that one.

What do you mean??

 

[ger147]

The lawyers will love that one.

What lawyers? Clubs are perfectly entitled to set such entry criteria, nothing actionable for the nomads.

 

[Smiffy]

I await news of a record number of entries for the reawakened giant that was the Trilby Tour.......

 

[mikejohnchapman]

What lawyers? Clubs are perfectly entitled to set such entry criteria, nothing actionable for the nomads.

For a members club possibly but you are potentially discriminating against someone who has a valid England Golf handicap trying to enter an open competition. What would your criteria be for excluding them? Not handicap limits.

So if we take this to a logical conclusion - how about excluding members of municiple clubs, or members who are at pay and play clubs, or members of clubs owned by Donald Trump, or ............

You are basically excluding them based on your view they don't have a valid handicap which I think is challengable.

 

[doublebogey7]

For a members club possibly but you are potentially discriminating against someone who has a valid England Golf handicap trying to enter an open competition. What would your criteria be for excluding them? Not handicap limits.

So if we take this to a logical conclusion - how about excluding members of municiple clubs, or members who are at pay and play clubs, or members of clubs owned by Donald Trump, or ............

You are basically excluding them based on your view they don't have a valid handicap which I think is challengable.

If you are suggesting challenging such a practise under equality legislation, non golf club membership is not a protected characteristic. Guess you could try challenging on the basis that one of the protected characteristics is over represented by non golf club member golfers, good luck.

 

[ger147]

For a members club possibly but you are potentially discriminating against someone who has a valid England Golf handicap trying to enter an open competition. What would your criteria be for excluding them? Not handicap limits.

So if we take this to a logical conclusion - how about excluding members of municiple clubs, or members who are at pay and play clubs, or members of clubs owned by Donald Trump, or ............

You are basically excluding them based on your view they don't have a valid handicap which I think is challengable.

Golf clubs are already allowed to have single sex competitions, competitions based on age and even on how high or low your handicap is. So many people with valid handicaps can already be excluded for many many reasons from entering particular open competitions, so there is no reason why excluding people who are not a member of a golf club will suddenly see golf clubs in the dock.

Hence no work for any lawyers. ??

 

[hovis]

For a members club possibly but you are potentially discriminating against someone who has a valid England Golf handicap trying to enter an open competition. What would your criteria be for excluding them? Not handicap limits.

So if we take this to a logical conclusion - how about excluding members of municiple clubs, or members who are at pay and play clubs, or members of clubs owned by Donald Trump, or ............

You are basically excluding them based on your view they don't have a valid handicap which I think is challengable.

So you think someone is going to make a legal challenge because they've been told they can't play an open competition?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

So you think someone is going to make a legal challenge because they've been told they can't play an open competition?

If it's a business based club and the player holds a valid EG Handicap I suspect they may do yes. There have been lots of legal challenges about businesses refusing to deal with people based on discrimination so there could well be a case to be made.

Would England Golf prohibit a +6 handicap player entering the amateur championship or representing England because their handicap was held on their scheme and they were not a member of a club?

 

[hovis]

Your doing waaaaaaay too deep into this. It's a game of golf. I would be amazed if a golfer walks into a solicitors office and says "a golf club won't let me play in a competition". That's before the judge pisses himself laughing when it gets to his desk

As for a +6 Golfer.....his playing in a scrach comp so no foul. You can Let anyone play in those. The best golfer wins. Not some bandito trying to win a trip to Spain with his "28“ handicap

 

[PJ87]

Your doing waaaaaaay too deep into this. It's a game of golf. I would be amazed if a golfer walks into a solicitors office and says "a golf club won't let me play in a competition". That's before the judge pisses himself laughing when it gets to his desk

Think most golfers just want to be able to compare themselves to their mates who have handicaps

 

[doublebogey7]

If it's a business based club and the player holds a valid EG Handicap I suspect they may do yes. There have been lots of legal challenges about businesses refusing to deal with people based on discrimination so there could well be a case to be made.

Would England Golf prohibit a +6 handicap player entering the amateur championship or representing England because their handicap was held on their scheme and they were not a member of a club?

Please explain how this would be discrimination in the eyes of the law.

 

[rulefan]

Would England Golf prohibit a +6 handicap player entering the amateur championship or representing England because their handicap was held on their scheme and they were not a member of a club?

Clubs don't run the Amateur Championship.

 

[williamalex1]

Along with club prizes you could do, best visiting club, best nomad.

We did something similar when nomads played in our work's golf away days. We had a special visitors prize but kept their entry fees separate and split it between their 1st 3 places.
We were caught out quite a few times with bandits declaring inflated handicaps..

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Clubs don't run the Amateur Championship.

I know - my point was would the R&A or EG for their national event refuse entry to a non club member with an EG handicap? If not would this set a precident?

 

[Crow]

Or clubs could just have categories within the comp.
Club member handicap holders category
Nomad handicap holders category

Everyone plays together, prize value could be based upon the size of entry for each category.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Please explain how this would be discrimination in the eyes of the law.

I'm sorry I can't - I'm not a lawyer.

However, having worked in business for many years I am sensitive to showing discrimination to people based on criteria that seem to be unfair. If EG are going to implement this scheme (which it appears they are) these players will pay to have an official handicap in the same way club members do with their affiliation fees. The handicap would be calculate in exactly the same way and applied in the same way for all players. Thus I can't understand why you would exclude one group from playing in an event run by a commercial organisation based on their membership of a golf club.

There are clearly more qualified people than me in this discussion so I guess I must accept my fears are unfounded and clubs will be able to do as they wish regarding open events.

 

[rulefan]

I know - my point was would the R&A or EG for their national event refuse entry to a non club member with an EG handicap? If not would this set a precident?

I'm not sure how a nomad would get an elite handicap if clubs didn't provide the facilities to enter their competitions but in the unlikely event, I can't see the R&A/EG refusing