New H/C (54) Comp Changes

[Twire]

You are for the moment, but I'll excuse you as your heart is in the right place.

The player can pick up but he will be N/R although his gross scores on the other holes will determine if he buffers or otherwise.

"I thought there was talk of changes" I do know how it works today.

 

[Crazyface]

Great read! This has given me lots to think about. Just a few points.

The "clowns" reference was down to our H/C committee waving away the thoughts about a 54 H/C just because we don't have (men) any as yet. BUT WHAT IF WE DO!!!!? Oh and I know a few men at ours would benefit from a H/c over 28, so their review was a farce. Hey but that's how the one clown is.
Not sure about playing in a division that goes 16 - 54 as one post has restructured their divisions.
I like the argument about Matchplay. Lower H/C moan about having to give shots all the blooming time and to give 40 - 50 shout on the first tee is just ridiculous. (Even though the lower H/C's usually get to the final as our place).
What about scrambles??? Three low H/C players bring in the top H/C off 54 to their team to pick up the full allowance, the rip up the course with the 54 player being a spectator and win by a country mile.

You see there are a hell of a lot of things to think about, this is how I roll. I'm a hovverer, apparently, so look for everything before diving in. I will be sitting down with the comp committee soon and we will have all these things discussed and decided upon before the season starts. I hope for you clubs sake they will be doing the same, otherwise there's going to be a lot of furious members asking questions after some comps.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

That's not the point. Nobody seems to understand this, probably because nobody else on here has ever had to give over 30 shots in a match. It is soul destroying - you take 8 on a hole, and win it, you make a birdie at the next hole and lose it. Not sure how many times I need to say "it's not about winning or losing" before people actually try to think through what I am saying. Cat 1 player vs 50 handicap is two people playing two different games - the result is entirely dependent on how the 50 handicap plays - and simply not any fun.

I have given more shots than that, used to give the wife 3 shots a hole, then we progressed to 2 shots a hole and now proper handicaps(26 shots). Okay not a club comp but not really any different IMHO. I have lost or halved many a par 3/4/5 on with a birdie to Joannes greater score.

I think you need to change your 'negative' outlook towards it isn't down to how you play. You have to take on board that when a very high or even a mid handicap plays a hole well, you lose the hole whatever(this is not a scratch event, so it happens). The par 3s at our Joanne still gets 2 shots on all three and she has/can par any of them(they are not that long), if she does you walk on and that's you hole.

However there are other holes that are in my favour like par 5s, as it is very unlikey that Joanne can string 3-5 good shots together and if she get in a bunker on any hole then its normally mine or adams hole.

My mindset is more about shooting as low as I can and slowly applying pressure if I can to the opponent. You are never going to beat an opponent that has a great day, more so if a high handicap but winning isn't what is important, its the mindset to the game.

Your comment 'entirely dependent on how the 50 handicap plays' shows that your mindset is not quite right, hope you don't take that comment the wrong way, as it is not meant to be, just trying to be helpful. They are 50 because they take a lot of shots and maybe sometimes will 'fluke' a low score. I see it as matchplay whether I am playing my son(similar handicap) or my wife (from her 54 shots we used to give her, to the 26 I now give her).

Hope that helps.

EDIT Thought I would add, I find the match great fun, as you never quite know what is going to happen. I find that exciting and fun. Not sure why:mmm:

 

[Imurg]

Is there a quick way of finding out how many 36+ Male handicaps there are..?
I suspect the number is really quite low

 

[HankMarvin]

Great read! This has given me lots to think about. Just a few points.

The "clowns" reference was down to our H/C committee waving away the thoughts about a 54 H/C just because we don't have (men) any as yet. BUT WHAT IF WE DO!!!!? Oh and I know a few men at ours would benefit from a H/c over 28, so their review was a farce. Hey but that's how the one clown is.
Not sure about playing in a division that goes 16 - 54 as one post has restructured their divisions.
I like the argument about Matchplay. Lower H/C moan about having to give shots all the blooming time and to give 40 - 50 shout on the first tee is just ridiculous. (Even though the lower H/C's usually get to the final as our place).
What about scrambles??? Three low H/C players bring in the top H/C off 54 to their team to pick up the full allowance, the rip up the course with the 54 player being a spectator and win by a country mile.

You see there are a hell of a lot of things to think about, this is how I roll. I'm a hovverer, apparently, so look for everything before diving in. I will be sitting down with the comp committee soon and we will have all these things discussed and decided upon before the season starts. I hope for you clubs sake they will be doing the same, otherwise there's going to be a lot of furious members asking questions after some comps.

can't see it making a big difference in a scramble as it's normally 10% of the combined handicap so not a huge advantage plus they would need to use some of his tee shots

 

[Crazyface]

10% would give them 5 shots off him (54 H/C). Whereas before they'd have say maybe 2 or 3 off all four of them. His tee shots would be on par three's when a 1/2 decent shot was made, or a short par 4.
I'm not against the change by the way, it just accommodating them fairly...for everyone.

 

[Crazyface]

Is there a quick way of finding out how many 36+ Male handicaps there are..?
I suspect the number is really quite low

Sure, at the moment. But the changes are to try and bring in more players to clubs, some of who are in desperate need of them , and their money, but these players are maybe a little scared to join up as they can't play that well and would feel that they could join as they couldn't play to 28.

 

[Orikoru]

That's not the point. Nobody seems to understand this, probably because nobody else on here has ever had to give over 30 shots in a match. It is soul destroying - you take 8 on a hole, and win it, you make a birdie at the next hole and lose it.

Not sure how many times I need to say "it's not about winning or losing" before people actually try to think through what I am saying. Cat 1 player vs 50 handicap is two people playing two different games - the result is entirely dependent on how the 50 handicap plays - and simply not any fun.

I get what you mean. The competitive element is taken away. If you're giving someone 3 shots on a par 3, they bogey it and you will have needed to get a hole in one just to tie the hole. And when you win a hole you know it's largely because they've knocked it in for 8 or 9. So essentially you'd just be going through the motions to get to the end of the match. As others have said though, you'd be unlucky to get an opponent like that two rounds in a row so I guess you just suck it up and get the match out of the way - treat it as a practise round in your head maybe.

Even at my handicap I've never really considered entering a match play. If I was playing all players of my own level I think that would be good, but as soon as I came up against a 4 handicappers and was getting a shot on them every hole, even that I would feel a bit sheepish about it. For some reason, in a full comp where everyone is handicapped accordingly it feels comfortable and enjoyable, but in a one on one where I'm giving 18 shots over them would feel uncomfortable. But maybe it's just because I've never done it, and it practice it wouldn't be like that.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

10% would give them 5 shots off him (54 H/C). Whereas before they'd have say maybe 2 or 3 off all four of them. His tee shots would be on par three's when a 1/2 decent shot was made, or a short par 4.
I'm not against the change by the way, it just accommodating them fairly...for everyone.

When I entered the texas scramble event last August at our club with Adam(hcap 13), me(hcap 9), Joanne(35 hcap) and My mum (36 hcap really 54 + tbh), I can safely say it was a right battle to find 4 tee shots of theirs to take(I think it was 4), you cant just say on short par 4 or par 3, as it doesn't happen like that and from there we were scrambling to try to save par.

I think we only used 2 putts of mums. Joanne wasn't much better. Luckily Adam and I were playing great that day(ie. much better than handicap) and we shot 3 under and still don't know how we did it, was a bit of a mental round and we felt we only left one shot out there. If mum had been 54, we would have got another 1.8 shots, we would have go runner up I think, rather than joint 3, so still could not have won even with a freaky round.

I don't think the higher handicaps will particularly help games like Texas, more likely to really help 4BBB IMHO.

 

[jim8flog]

They are looking to bring a rule in to cover it in 2019 apparently

I have not seen that in any of the proposed R&A/USGA rules changes.

 

[jim8flog]

For each club - yes.

We had 48 male members with a handicap of 28 but from those only 18 actively took part in competitions.

We now have 16 with handicaps over 28 and only two with handicaps 36 or over. That is from a membership of approximately 600 men

 

[Crazyface]

And to prove a point regarding reviews at my place,
Player A Currently off 28 scored in comps

Medals:- 106 - 110 - 104 - 102 None of which are close to net par
Stablefords:- 26 - 24 - 32 - 23 - 29 Ditto above.
Two NR's.....just what were his scores for him to give up????

Do you not think this guy needs a few extra shots? I do, but our H/C didn't give him any after review. Please don't come back with that bit on "well anything over a double bogey don't count". The guy needs help with his H/C to make him competitive. It's shocking who's running our place.

 

[Crazyface]

I'm gonna check my mates H/C. He MUST have been given a couple. :thup:

 

[Imurg]

Fragger's not going to like me for saying this but he's just been given a shot back at Annual Review.
I can't be sure but I don't think he's got close to his handicap all year at the Zoo - comps and other games too...
There's been reasons for this, of course..having a kidney removed does tend to put you back a bit!
But knowing his scores, really he needs 3 or 4 back but he only got 1...
Better than a poke in the eye but not really addressing the situation.

We have no male members above 28 according to HDIDO......

 

[Twire]

okay for most clubs in England because of stableford as you can pick your ball up but we play stroke play in Scotland so they will continue to whack the hell out the ball until it's in the hole as they probably wont want to NR

I thought there was talk of rule changes to accommodate this in Medal rounds. Pick your ball up and it goes down as a double bogie........or I might be talking out of my backside

They are looking to bring a rule in to cover it in 2019 apparently

I have not seen that in any of the proposed R&A/USGA rules changes.

Here we go, I'm not going mad..

New alternative form of stroke play
Current rule: In standard individual stroke play, players must hole out at every hole; the only recognized alternative forms of stroke play where holing out is not required are Stableford, Par and Bogey.
New rule: A new "Maximum Score" form of stroke play is recognized, where a player’s score for a hole is capped at a maximum score (such as double par or triple bogey) that is set by the Committee.

 

[Crazyface]

Here we go, I'm not going mad..

New alternative form of stroke play
Current rule: In standard individual stroke play, players must hole out at every hole; the only recognized alternative forms of stroke play where holing out is not required are Stableford, Par and Bogey.
New rule: A new "Maximum Score" form of stroke play is recognized, where a player’s score for a hole is capped at a maximum score (such as double par or triple bogey) that is set by the Committee.

Great idea!!!! We'll all be spared those nightmare scores!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Great idea!!!! We'll all be spared those nightmare scores!

I'd vote for it :thup:

 

[Orikoru]

Here we go, I'm not going mad..

New alternative form of stroke play
Current rule: In standard individual stroke play, players must hole out at every hole; the only recognized alternative forms of stroke play where holing out is not required are Stableford, Par and Bogey.
New rule: A new "Maximum Score" form of stroke play is recognized, where a player’s score for a hole is capped at a maximum score (such as double par or triple bogey) that is set by the Committee.

Great idea!!!! We'll all be spared those nightmare scores!

I'm not a fan of that to be honest. I like looking through some of the comp scores on HDID and thinking "bloody hell, that guy got a 14 on one hole!!"

 

[FairwayDodger]

I have given more shots than that, used to give the wife 3 shots a hole, then we progressed to 2 shots a hole and now proper handicaps(26 shots). Okay not a club comp but not really any different IMHO. I have lost or halved many a par 3/4/5 on with a birdie to Joannes greater score.

I think you need to change your 'negative' outlook towards it isn't down to how you play. You have to take on board that when a very high or even a mid handicap plays a hole well, you lose the hole whatever(this is not a scratch event, so it happens). The par 3s at our Joanne still gets 2 shots on all three and she has/can par any of them(they are not that long), if she does you walk on and that's you hole.

However there are other holes that are in my favour like par 5s, as it is very unlikey that Joanne can string 3-5 good shots together and if she get in a bunker on any hole then its normally mine or adams hole.

My mindset is more about shooting as low as I can and slowly applying pressure if I can to the opponent. You are never going to beat an opponent that has a great day, more so if a high handicap but winning isn't what is important, its the mindset to the game.

Your comment 'entirely dependent on how the 50 handicap plays' shows that your mindset is not quite right, hope you don't take that comment the wrong way, as it is not meant to be, just trying to be helpful. They are 50 because they take a lot of shots and maybe sometimes will 'fluke' a low score. I see it as matchplay whether I am playing my son(similar handicap) or my wife (from her 54 shots we used to give her, to the 26 I now give her).

Hope that helps.

EDIT Thought I would add, I find the match great fun, as you never quite know what is going to happen. I find that exciting and fun. Not sure why:mmm:

Hmm... comes across as a tad patronising and unfortunately I do take exception to your comment about my mindset. This is from experience of giving 20+ shots in club comps frequently - the more holes where you give 2 or more shots the less competitive it becomes. And there is a big difference between giving this many shots to someone you have drawn in the club comp and barely know and doing the same in a friendly game with your wife or son.

I stand by my comment that how the low handicapper plays is irrelevant. Try it - next time you give 3 shots a hole take a note of the scores and then go back through the card giving yourself a par on every hole or a bogey on every hole - does that change the outcome? I doubt it.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I get what you mean. The competitive element is taken away. If you're giving someone 3 shots on a par 3, they bogey it and you will have needed to get a hole in one just to tie the hole. And when you win a hole you know it's largely because they've knocked it in for 8 or 9. So essentially you'd just be going through the motions to get to the end of the match.

Exactly this, I'm glad someone gets the point I'm trying to make.